| Author | Message | ||
| Goose Registered user Username: Goose Post Number: 17 Registered: 11-2011  |
I had said in my thread "Dysfunctional Families," that I would share some more of my experience as an SDA. Let me describe now, how the Adventists gave me a "helping" hand in my exodus from them. I had been an employee of the church, a young intern pastor for the Indiana Conference, and sustained an occupational injury while roller skating on a church planned outing to a roller skating rink. Church members witnessed my falling and complaining of wrist pain. I did not at the time seek medical treatment or report it to the conference office. Well over a year later, when what I had thought was a simple sprain did not heal, I had the wrist X-rayed and it was diagnosed as an old (1-2 year) fracture of a small navicular bone, that required surgery. I was no longer an employee of the church at this time but I contacted the Indiana conference office to let them know of the injury, for I had no medical insurance. I was sent forms to file a workers compensation claim but the conference did not concur / agree with the claim and their insurer (self insured?) would not honor it. I requested the help of the local church where I was attending and presented the issue to the church board. After I had described what happened, they asked I step outside while they discussed it. I never received any support or help. Eventually I had to hire an attorney. But the Indiana Conference continued to deny the workers compensation claim. I had to go on welfare and food stamps in order to obtain the surgery. By this time I had stopped attending church. A long time Adventist friend invited me to a meeting that was advertized in the local paper, welcoming any estranged former members to attend a question and answer event with the northern California conference president. I went and explained what had happened, sat down. In answer to what I had conveyed, the conference president simply stated that "Sometimes the church has to make business decisions." Infuriated, I got up, walked out and have never set foot in an Adventist church since. I sometimes have wondered how it might have been if I had been born into the SDA church rather than being an outside convert. I imagine having extended family; uncles and grandfathers, retired pastors, etc., I might not have been tossed aside as I was. Pain can cause us to grow. Though I reeled for years after this happened, and was for some time angry and bitter towards God, in this process I am assured I came to be known by God. In order words, I knew that He knew my travails. I really think we come to know God, intimately, in the process of our being transparent and honest. Even if the transparency and honesty isn't tidy or pretty. | ||
| Bobalou Registered user Username: Bobalou Post Number: 85 Registered: 2-2005 |
Adventists are a throw away society. I have seen it time and time again. You are correct about those who are related to someone high up. They do get attention the remainder of the flock don't. I remember our daughter in college. She had to work some to help pay her way. She was assigned to cleaning the restrooms while her influential friends got cushy jobs. That is the way the system works and it all stems om not having a relationship with Jesus. It is all about legalism. | ||
| Surfy Registered user Username: Surfy Post Number: 765 Registered: 11-2007 |
Adventists eat their young. Be very thankful you are out. Surfy | ||
| Ric_b Registered user Username: Ric_b Post Number: 1350 Registered: 7-2004  |
I have to agree with you about the honesty and transparency comment. This is something that permeates SDAism. It starts with little deceptions, telling just enough "truth" that it obscures the real truth. i.e. "Don't tell people that we are Adventist, tell them that we are Christians." SDAism has this mistaken idea that the ends justify the means. This is why it is OK for literature evangelists and pastors to manipulate and mislead people in order to get the sale (or the baptism). Individually, most SDAs are very honest. But put these same people together in a church setting and something changes. In reading your story, what bothers me the most is that a group of people would need to discuss and vote on whether they would come forward and tell the truth. Most employers would fight a comp claim from an former employee who didn't say anything at the time of the accident or during the termination process. But in the process of fact finding, either by the church in deciding whether or not to continue fighting the claim or in the determination hearing, honest witnesses are necessary to make fair decisions. | ||
| Goose Registered user Username: Goose Post Number: 20 Registered: 11-2011 |
Thanks, everyone, for your empathy and kind words of support and encouragement. Ric, you wrote: "Most employers would fight a comp claim from an former employee who didn't say anything at the time of the accident...but in the process of fact finding, ... honest witnesses are necessary to make fair decisions." Yes, and as I stated in my OP, there were church members who has witnessed the injury, and during the filing of the work comp claim, they submitted written statements. Also, the X-rays showed not a recent fracture, but one that occurred at the time of the injury. My assuming it was just a sprain was natural, from past experiences. The Indiana Conference and their work comp claims agent(s) had enough facts and data to support the fact of the occupational injury. They had just made up their minds I was not worth the expense. There is no other way to view it. As a side note, as I was going through this ordeal with them, I had been talking with one of the local pastors about it and he said "If a pastor goes sky-diving with church members and becomes injured, that would not be considered an occupational injury." Oh, did that ever tick me off. That's apples and oranges. That roller skating outing was a planned church youth outing. I had some choice words for this pastor, whom I had thought was a friend. But he just towed the line; fell in formation with the other unconscious ones. I did not include this in my opening post, but once I hired an attorney, then, all of a sudden they wanted to settle. | ||
| Ric_b Registered user Username: Ric_b Post Number: 1353 Registered: 7-2004 |
Sorry, I wasn't clear that the church members submitted written statements supporting the work-relatedness of the claim. I work in the area of occupational injuries, and the sitation as you described it would be common. I'm not trying to defend SDAism in any way, I think it is a Spiritually bankrupt system. But any time that an employee fails to file an incident report at the time of the injury (even if the injury seems small and doesn't appear to require immediate medical attention) as (almost always) required by the employer policy the comp carrier or attorney are highly likely to deny the claim. Which leaves conscientious employees in a difficult spot, if you follow the policy and report anything, no matter how small, you may be seen as a complainer or someone trying to game the system. But if you wait even a few days to report that something is worse than you initially thought, the employer has a solid basis for trying to deny the claim. The unfortnate thing about having to hire an attorney to get a fair outcome is that some of the settlement that was legitimately yours then went to the attorney. From experience, it feels like one last twist of the knife by your former employer. | ||
| Goose Registered user Username: Goose Post Number: 21 Registered: 11-2011 |
Your insights, then, Ric, are worthwhile. As I look back on that time, so long ago now, I am glad it happened. They did actually "help" me in the long run, for it might have been many years, or never, that I would come to see that the SDA religious system, was as you say, spiritually bankrupt. All things do, as Scripture states, work together for good. When earthly shepherds fail, then God Himself is our Good Shepherd. | ||
| Tfelmon Registered user Username: Tfelmon Post Number: 57 Registered: 7-2011 |
Ric, You re correct about filing a claim as soon as the occupational injury happens. My company denies claims all the time when they are reported years later. We encourage our employees to come forward when they are injured so the proper process can be put in motion. If someone is a chronic "claimer" this can easily be determined if the injury is legit or not..that is, if it was reported on time. Goose, My wife had a similar situation with trying to get the SDA church to stand up to their responsibilities. She was an international student and each school is responsible for maintaining their student visas. A few years after she graduated, she was arrested by ICE for a red flagged student visa. Apparently the SDA school mistakenly filed two separate visa accounts for her and maintained only one of them. The unmaintained account expired and showed ICE that she never graduated, is still in the country under an expired visa. When she was being processed by ICE, they told her what triggered the investigation...the incorrect student visa that the school was responsible for. Not the GOV, not my wife but the school. We'll in order to satisfy the paper trail of this new issue, we had to hire an attorney to help resolve the issue and it also delayed her "green card" status by two years. This caused us extra costs of which were not her or my fault. We asked for an audience of the school to discuss the matter and come to some resolution but to no avail. We had an attorney write a letter to them to rattle their cage, but that sent them into defense and got their attorney involved. This attorney preceded to bad mouth my wife and point the finger at her. We didn't have enough cash to pursue further, so we licked our wounds and moved on eat ALL the costs for their mistake. Bending people over and giving them the shaft seems to be SOP for the SAD church. | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 2248 Registered: 7-2007 |
Goose and Tfelmon; I sympathize with you. That's terrible what happened!  I imagine any church that's a cult does "business" the same way. I heard that the Roman Catholic church simply moved pedophile priests when there was an outcry against them. The important thing though, is really finding out whether the religion one is in really is a cult! In my case, I simply assumed that my parents and church had taught me the truth. I simply assumed that verses in the Bible that I came across that disagreed with the SDA church, just appeared that way. It came as a total shock to find out that the SDA church was a cult! | ||
| Ric_b Registered user Username: Ric_b Post Number: 1354 Registered: 7-2004 |
Goose, it is amazing what God uses to open our eyes. | ||
| Goose Registered user Username: Goose Post Number: 22 Registered: 11-2011 |
Asurprise, I don't know all of what it would have felt like to have been born into an Adventist family. I imagine pretty constrictive and oppressive. In your scenario, it would have been shocking, but in a different way than what I had experienced. Its really a conundrum. I read 300,000 people go out the back door every year. But in their warped thinking, this reinforces their beliefs that many will fall away "from the truth" in the last days. So it is self perpetuating. They are completely unconscious to the fact that our loving God is saving people out of a warped sub-culture. Modern day pharisees who say "we see," and remain blind. Really a sad situation. No wonder many have called them Sadventists. Catholics, as you mentioned, too, do not address problems, but just sweep them under the carpet. ~ Walt | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 13142 Registered: 12-2003  |
Walt, I'm so sorry, but your experience is another example of God redeeming everything we submit to Him and not wasting anything. Wow. What an ordeal...praise God He has shown you what is real and true! Colleen | ||
| Butterfly_poette Registered user Username: Butterfly_poette Post Number: 100 Registered: 5-2011 |
Glad you got out. If your name was Vandeman, Finley, or Batchelor you'd have been helped. | ||
| Skeeter Registered user Username: Skeeter Post Number: 1701 Registered: 12-2007  |
I used to like listening to George Vandeman. He had such a nice comforting tone of voice, seemed so gentle and nice..... then one time (while he was still on "It is Written") I went to see him in person at the Fresno Central Church and they were doing a taping for the TV program. I don't remember ever being so BORED in my life ! I was almost in awe of being able to see him in person when I first got there.... but then... it wasnt anything he said that upset me, but that they were doing the taping for the show and they kept doing everything over and over and OVER and O V E R !!!I thought it was just fine the way he said things the FIRST time, but it was like they wanted every word, every hand gesture, every facial expression to be perfect for the cameras. It just all seemed so FAKE ! During the first "break" I would have just got in my car and left except that I was with my MIL and I didn't want to cause her to have to leave if she was enjoying it. But I decided then that I would never again go to "church" while they were doing a taping for a show. They should have just done it live and been done with it. Maybe the idea was to show people how much work went into the programs, but all it did for me was to make it seem phony. BTW.... I heard a few times over the years that George Vandeman had a son and daughter and that neither of them were members of the church. I don't know if that is true or not. | ||
| Goose Registered user Username: Goose Post Number: 24 Registered: 11-2011 |
Skeeter, it is very ironic that SDAs put out these front people, smooth as silk and ever so convincing, and yet underneath the veneer there are these other types I had to run into, in the debacle I described in my opening post. Come what may, our great God was able to turn that into a means by which, after some time, I became real and transparent before Him. I don't think there can be any more wondrous experience this side of glory than to be able to say, "Thou knowest me, Lord." People come and go, in and out of our lives, but He is that Friend that sticks closer than a brother. | ||
| Butterfly_poette Registered user Username: Butterfly_poette Post Number: 101 Registered: 5-2011 |
George Vandeman and his wife Nellie had four children. Three boys and one girl. Connie Vandeman Jeffery still sings on SDA TV and evangelism series. I don't care for her music, it sounds so much like the rest. Ronald got arrested in the 1980s for stabbing his father. It was superficial, the wounds, but he spent some time in jail. http://articles.latimes.com/1985-06-01/local/me-5423_1_george-vandeman I don't know anything else about their four children. | ||
| Foofighter Registered user Username: Foofighter Post Number: 178 Registered: 7-2005 |
Skeeter, I had a different feeling when watching Vandeman. I used to see his program every so often back in the 60's, I was in my early teens I guess. I don't know what it was exactly, but he gave me a creepy feeling. I just didn't care for him. Looking back now as an adult, I think it was the fake, phony vibe that came across to me. Of course, I had no idea about Adventism in any way. I had never heard of Seventh-day Adventists. Learning about them came much later. About 1975 or '76. I also used to get that same feeling about some of the pastors/conference people. There just seemed to be some sort of "mask" that could feel eerie to me. Carol | ||
| Foofighter Registered user Username: Foofighter Post Number: 179 Registered: 7-2005 |
Goose, A belated welcome to the forum. I very much understand where you are coming from. I joined as a 24 year old. I was in the church for 27 years. Yikes!!! Anyway, my hubby worked for the church all those years, and I too would see bad treatment of employees or members. I thought it was weird for the "remnant" to have so much dysfunction. Of course, I didn't see it at first. Things were quite nice for a long time, but as time went along, the bloom was off the rose, so to speak. I guess I matured and could see things more clearly and see beneath the facade. I also could see the very real difference between EGW and the Bible. Once again, welcome aboard! Carol | ||
| Mjcmcook Registered user Username: Mjcmcook Post Number: 201 Registered: 2-2011 |
RE: George Vandeman~ I personally never held him in high regard as an sda~ but my Mother did(God rest her soul) Also, my second husband was enamored by him, to the point, that because of watching him so often on television he was baptized into the adventist church in 1979~I met my husband in 1980 when I was still an sda and we were married that same year~ we were divorced in 1992 and in 1996 I accepted JESUS as my Savior and was born again~ My former husband is still an adventist~ However, it was not adventism that brought about the divorce~ I also saw George Vandeman in a debilitated state in 1973 when he was in hospital at LLU ~ (I was working there then as a Unit Secretary) He looked as if someone put pancake make-up on him every day & his hair was perfectly combed-the hair reminded me of a wig or hair-piece~ I only went into his room a couple of times for reasons related to his chart~he was always either asleep or otherwise sedated~ his appearance was unnerving to me, since I had always only seen him on television~ Needless to say, the nurses, doctors & other staff were all 'aflutter' to have such an important 'VIP' on their unit! I do not remember the date that he died; it wasn't when I worked at LLU~I only worked there one year~ After this year I went directly into my teaching position in an adventist school~ ~mj~ | ||
| Skeeter Registered user Username: Skeeter Post Number: 1703 Registered: 12-2007 |
Yes, I liked Vandeman when I used to watch him on tv.... UNTIL I was at an actual taping Vandeman just seemed phony to me after seeing that. He kept stopping and wanting the camera crew to tape it over and over.Like he thought he had to have everything perfect. I remember really enjoying watching a little tiny oriental boy and girl that same day playing violin...they must have been about 5-r 6 years old, they were wonderful and they did NOT have them do a "do over" for the cameras.. they got it right the first time. |
