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Cathy2
Registered user
Username: Cathy2
Post Number: 78
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, March 19, 2006 - 8:28 pm: |     |
Gilbert,
This is in answer to your response to my post, on the thread about the Trinity.
I didnít want to veer away from Chris's study on the Trinity, so I thought Iëd begin a new thread.
Thank you for your points; I truly appreciate it and relate to them.
I sure agree with you about being non-confrontational. That is the quandary I am in. I have been non-confronting for over 10 years. (I don't like to be confrontational by nature) So much that I am beginning to wonder, if I haven't gone to the other extreme. I do ask God to lead me.
I know that some of them believe that I have no god, at all, just because I am not an SDA, even though I am all for the Gospel. I am the 'heathen' daughter, sister, aunt (which hurts, I must admit. I am a 44 y/o mother of teens, now,and have changed quite a bit, since any wildness as a teen or early 20's!) because I wear jewelry, have smoked, dance, wear make-up, allow my kids to eat meat, drink wine in Communion and socially, etc., etc., let alone do not KEEP THE SABBATH. My external life proves to them that I couldnít possibly be with God or know anything about God or the Bible, can I?
But I don't say anything to begin a fuss. They are going to believe what they are going to believe, no matter what, as far as I have seen in my lifetime. 10 years ago and once, since, I proclaimed my joy, Christ and 'rest' and it fell flat. I withdrew to the Family of God, feeling it was hopeless, except for God to do what he willed with them. Not a thing I could do or say. (One exception; I can always talk to my mother about Jesus and the cross. She still retains some of what she learned from Des Ford's Romans)
Also, I think they are leery of me trying to convert them to Protestant 'Babylon'. I am not trying to 'convert' them to anything. I only desire to share Christ and our unity, wonderful fellowship in him, since they *all* claim and talk about (SDA-speak) to believe in Jesus, the cross, faith, his blood and salvation by it (except my dad. He has become Ellen's clone, claiming that if one rejects her--SOP--one is lost). Unity in Christ, without anything added on (which is the *only* unity within the entire Body of Christ, whatever our denomination); without me dissing their beliefs. But even in that manner of approach--which is my nature towards anyone--scares them. They are too chained in their minds, in bondage. I am too weak, not being God, to break those chains; the IJ, SAbbath-god, SDA-GC 'End Times', etc..
When I have shared scriptures about faith in response to his "keep the Sabbath or else" letters, my father has quoted James and told me that "even the devils believe and tremble". (I saw this told to an ex-SDA on an SDA forum, too, and knew, then, that I am not the only Former who has had this thrown in their face). SDA's completely misunderstand James and, also, 1 John about 'Jesus' commandments', which they always assume are the big 10. If I try to explain what the scripture truly means, nothingness... (that 'spirit' Colleen speaks of...yes, it IS there.) It took me years to undestand these books, so I understand that mind-bondage of theirs.
Does the seed of the Word truly go into everyone? The parable of the Sower implies that it does not. I grieve for their lost relationship with my children and myself, joys and peace in Christ (In this life. I do not speculate on anyone's Eternal destiny. I am not God, knowing their true hearts).
I have given it over to God in all these years, but I just feel so badly, when I hear things like you mentioned about this SS lesson. My soul just sinks, knowing my siblings, parents, nieces and nephew will only go deeper and deeper into a false Gospel.
If I allowed it, some would bombard me with their 'light', as you put it, but I never allow it. I avoid useless arguments and anything which would break a connection in the relationships. Even with that, there is one who broke the relationship, to some degree, anyway; and I grieve. He was my favorite sibling.
One thing I have noticed is that once I *completely* left Adventism (as opposed to waffling and/or being nominal) and said so, my *credibility* about anything, let alone theology, became zero with them. So anything I said, scriptural and gentle, didn't land in their minds, just because I said it.
These are only a few things I have dealt and others deal with, which make it hard to know what to do or say, when it seems like we have said, done and prayed all we can. No, we cannot pray all we can! Prayer is the most powerful thing we can do, to break those barriers. But it doesn't promise to make it easy or feel happy.
Here is an example of the extremes in one part of my family:
Yesterday, my girls were playing the game 'Bible Baseball' with conservative SDA cousins, aunt and uncle. My 22 y/o niece, whenever she didn't recognize nor believe one of the answers, questions or statements on the cards, would put it aside and say "I don't know about that; it must be Catholic". My SDA bil--God bless him--would refute her and get out the Bible and tell her, "Yes it is in the Bible.î So, he, at least, wasn't letting her get away with that. I wasn't there, so I am grateful to him, for my girl's sake.
But how does one get past this kind of extreme bias and prejudice, which isn't even logical, let alone scriptural?
All I know, right now, is that if she sends me the heresy from the SS lesson, I will send her pure scripture alone. If the Holy Spirit leads me with any gentle words, I might add a comment, but I am leery to do that, fearing she will just blip them out of her mind. But, since she is so set on Bible verses, perhaps, God's Word, alone, will 'speak'. I can only pray so.
Gilbert, if you write on a thread about this, I would appreciate anything you and others contribute in material, thoughts, experiences and links. I know I would have to have blind spots on this issue; other's views and expereinces could give new insights.
You are so right about, often, we end up in the defensive position. Whether that is good or not (I, personally, am not comfortable in it), I remind myself that I(we)are *defending the Gospel*, the best we can and know, even when we are frustrated or discouraged.
Cathy
choosier1@msn.com |
Belvalew
Registered user
Username: Belvalew
Post Number: 994
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, March 19, 2006 - 10:14 pm: | |
Cathy, you are definitely not alone in this. Recently I shared my distaste for the "pressure" altar call, and a dear friend of mine who is SDA responded with a defensive e-mail about how she was so glad to be keeping the law, that she wasn't keeping the law from a legalist standpoint but that she saw the law as God's love letter to her. She knew that every time she had broken the law she had been hurt and that she wanted to keep the law to show Jesus how much she loved him.
It's been more than 10 years since I ceased to be an Adventist and became a born-again Christian, and my friend has been concerned about my salvation every since, even though she has tried to be PC about the whole thing. I also understand from having been with her (we live 1500 miles apart, but we get together when we can) that she truly loves and trusts Jesus for her salvation.
I responded by telling her that I knew how much she loves Jesus and that I have no doubt that she will be in his forever kingdom. I then told her that I believed that I was saved by faith in the shed blood of Jesus my Lord, and quoted Romans 3:21-31. I then repeated to her how much I loved her and explained that I had not been able to achieve that sense of closeness with Jesus until I threw my whole weight on Him. I told her that I was aware she was able to do that from within Adventism, I was not.
I haven't heard from her since. She's not that frequent an e-mailer, but still I feel the cold shoulder. My "statement of faith" was done entirely in "First Person, Personal." I'm praying that this will not come between us, and I'm going to call her in a couple of days and find out if I overstepped. I also wish this type of distance didn't have to happen, but I've experienced in from other friends, and definitely within family. Jesus also said that if we chose someone, anyone, over him, we didn't deserve him. I choose Jesus.
Belva |
Insideoutsider
Registered user
Username: Insideoutsider
Post Number: 35
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Monday, March 20, 2006 - 9:13 am: | |
Belva, You didn't overstep! You gave her a First-person, Personal answer. That should never be taken back. We have the example in the Bible of the man who was blind from birth saying "I was blind, but now I see", his personal testimony. If that has come between you and your SDA friend, than all you can do is hold her up to Jesus and pray. When these things come between us and our friends or family, we hold on to Jesus and no one else. Praising Him for your tender heart. Jan |
Dd
Registered user
Username: Dd
Post Number: 647
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Monday, March 20, 2006 - 10:34 am: | |
Cathy and Belva,
You explain my own experience with SDA family and friends with exactness. It is a difficult position to be in. To share my deep love for Jesus and total dependence on Him, brings discomfort so I back off. But when I back off then they are preceiving it as "guilt" or "struggling" that keeps me away. I have had several SDAs (parents of my children's friends at their SDA school) come up to me and say, "We understand you are struggling and I want you to know we are praying for you." This tells me that family members are bemoaning our apostasy of Sunday church attendance. My children's cousins are always questioning my children and begging them to go to church on Sabbath even though they and their parents know we love our church (Sunday) and our precious Savior.
Thank you, Jan, for your praise. His heart is tender and He knows are sorrows and He has already begun redeeming those relationships we have lost because of our desire to follow Him. It is NOT about me, Lord Jesus...it's all about You!
Denise |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 3573
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Monday, March 20, 2006 - 12:54 pm: | |
Jan, thank you for your affirmation of the first person, personal testimony. You're so right; it should never be taken back. We will experience distance and cold shoulders, but we keep praying.
Cathy, Belva, and Denise, your stories are so familiar. Those comments about your "struggles", Denise, really sum up the skewed perception Adventists have of anyone "outside".
I remember about 11 years ago when some dear friends of ours left the Adventist church. We were beginning our Bible study that ultimately led us out also, but we certainly weren't "there" yet. I remember feeling sympathetic and "oh-so-broadminded" as I spoke "supportive" words to her while explaining my own desire to stay. I even remember that my personal "defense" included the fact that the church hadn't dealt me the unspportive "blows" she had experienced in it.
Oh, my goodness--it is so embarrassing as I look back on that. I said all the standard stuff! And I believed it. I actually believed that they had to leave the Sabbath in order to regain perspective to be able to re-embrace it.
Wrong.
A little over a year later, when the New Covenant suddenly came into focus, I understsood what they had done. What really is clear to me now is how much arrogance is embedded into the Adventist spirit. I had no clue I was arrogant. But I was. I was blind and arrogant in my blindness.
Many of our friends and family have been emotionally distanced from us (and some outright physically) for years, and there's no resolution in sight.
But as you said, Denise, God redeems those relationships we have lost, often in startling ways we would never dream up on our own. He is faithful.
Colleen
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Schasc
Registered user
Username: Schasc
Post Number: 54
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 21, 2006 - 10:32 am: | |
Dd for what it is worth...........I dont think you are struggling! It is amazing that people with in our community preceive former SDA's as falling from the path and trying to figure out who they are! |
Dd
Registered user
Username: Dd
Post Number: 651
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 21, 2006 - 1:35 pm: | |
Thank you Schasc for being my true friend. I know you understand. God uses your friendship and acceptance to show me His redeeming love. It always amazes me how He brings "coincidences". How remarkable He arranged for us to know about each other in this small community! All things work together for our good and His glory!
Denise |
Pheeki
Registered user
Username: Pheeki
Post Number: 774
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 22, 2006 - 9:18 am: | |
Dd. I made the mistake of eating at the local Olive Garden at aroun 1 pm on Sabbath...and the pastor's wife came up to me and said, "I hear you are discouraged." (A euphamism for doubting the church's teachings). I promptly told her that I wasn't discouraged and have never been happier in my life. She didn't know what to say and backed away. |
Goldenbear
Registered user
Username: Goldenbear
Post Number: 148
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 22, 2006 - 9:32 pm: | |
Dd,
Have been trying to reach you. Can you give me a shout on e-mail or call the Mrs. ? |
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