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Freedom55
Registered user
Username: Freedom55
Post Number: 34
Registered: 3-2008
| | Posted on Thursday, October 22, 2009 - 7:23 am: |     |
As a result of my training in the Adventist faith (indoctrination), I was led to believe that when Christ died on the cross it was the ceremonial law of regulations, rituals & sacrifices that came to an end, and that the moral law of the 10 Commandments did not come to an end since they are eternal.
Thus, whenever I would read anything in the New Testament regarding the Old Covenant, I would interpret it through my Adventist eyeglasses as applying to the Law of Moses but not the Law of God. I had been led to understand that the Old Covenant did not include the 10 Commandments, and therefore they were still binding on Christians today.
In fact, I was so confident in my understanding that I outright dismissed Dale Ratzlaff’s book “Sabbath in Christ”, stating that I would never accept his conclusions regarding the covenants. But you know you should never say never, right?
Dale pointed out in his book the reference to Deuteronomy 5:4, which I confess I had completely overlooked in my previous studies. I began to look more seriously at this issue, and the questions began to roll around in my mind. I’m sure there are many of you who have been where I am right now. It’s hard to accept that you may be wrong, especially after so many years of indoctrination in the faith. And so, I began to concede, little by little, that my previous Adventist understanding might just be flawed.
This past week-end, I can say that I had a revelation - like a eureka moment of enlightenment. Probably nothing new to most of you on this forum, but it just jumped out at me. Let me explain.
I was reading Hebrews 8:13 again, as it reads in the New Living Translation: “When God speaks of a new covenant, it means he has made the first one obsolete. It is now out of date and ready to be put aside”. I also checked it out in my Greek New Testament and Kittel’s Theological Dictionary of the New Testament , which confirmed that the Greek word “Kainos” used here to describe the new covenant denotes “the new and miraculous thing that the age of salvation brings”, a new and better covenant. In this sense, Kittel states further “that God, by setting up the new covenant, has declared the old to be outdated, so that it is ready to disappear.”
I do not think there is any doubt regarding the fact that the old former covenant is now obsolete.
The question now is, what is included in the old covenant that has been set aside? And more specifically, are the 10 Commandments included here?
So going back to this past week-end, I kept reading on in Hebrews chapter 9 now, the first 5 verses in the New Living Translation. It starts off in Hebrews 9:1 by talking about the first covenant, the one that in verse 8:13 has been declared obsolete: “Now in that first covenant between God and Israel, there were regulations for worship and a sacred tent here on earth.” The first thing I noted was it says the first covenant was between God and Israel. Too bad the KJV didn’t translate it that way.
Hebrews 9 goes on to talk about what was included in the sacred tent and in verse 4 it includes “the stone tablets of the covenant with the Ten Commandments written on them.” So right here, I find a reference that the “stone tablets” are the covenant or at least a part of the covenant– the first covenant. To make no mistake about it, the translators of the NLT indicated what was written on the stone tablets – the Ten Commandments. I note that the KJV only states “the tables of the covenant”, but I don’t think any scholar would dispute that the tables of the covenant were anything but the stone tablets on which were written the Ten Commandments. And they are specifically called the “tables of THE COVENANT” (my emphasis).
What covenant is the author of Hebrews referring to? The first covenant.
So right here, as I was reading this passage this past week-end, I had my “revelation” so to speak, in that God enabled me to connect the dots and see that indeed the 10 Commandments were included in the first covenant which is now outdated and set aside for something much better, the new covenant of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Can it really be so simple? Am I on the right track or have I missed something? |
Flyinglady
Registered user
Username: Flyinglady
Post Number: 7632
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, October 22, 2009 - 7:39 am: | |
Yes, it is simple. That is the way I understand the meaning of the first covenant.
Diana L |
Christo
Registered user
Username: Christo
Post Number: 180
Registered: 2-2008
| | Posted on Thursday, October 22, 2009 - 8:30 am: | |
Also it is written in Hebrews 8:7
For if the first covenant had been faultless ,then should no place have been sought for the second.
It is errantly taught by some that their is just one big long covenant that has taken on different forms.
Hebrews makes clear that this is not the case.
Chris |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 10542
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, October 22, 2009 - 10:01 am: | |
Yes, you are entirely correct. You can validate your findings by going back to 2 Cor 3:7-end of chapter and reading that with this new understanding.
Also, notice Hebrews 7:12. The context is discussing that Jesus inaugurated a new type of priesthood. The Levitical priests were part of the old covenant; in fact, the old covenant, including the 10 Commandments which were the very words of the covenant, as Exodus 34:28 explicitly says, depended and operated on the levitical priesthood.
Jesus introduced an eternal priesthood: the Melchizedek priesthood. Hebrews 7:12:
quote:For when the priesthood is changed, of necessity there takes place a change of law also.
Also, with this new insight, read Galatians 3 and 4 again, and also Romans 3:21 to the end. And while you're in Romans, check out Romans 4 as well!
You are absolutely correct in this understanding!
Colleen |
Freedom55
Registered user
Username: Freedom55
Post Number: 35
Registered: 3-2008
| | Posted on Thursday, October 22, 2009 - 12:12 pm: | |
Isn't it amazing how everything looks different after the scales are removed from one's eyes? It really is a paradigm shift.
And thanks for pointing out the other verses. That's why I find this forum so helpful is all the various insights that come from each of you.
But please keep me in your prayers. You may have noticed I haven't been on very much over the past few months. Still struggling. I keep praying that God will lead me to the truth as HE promised. |
Hec
Registered user
Username: Hec
Post Number: 670
Registered: 3-2009
| | Posted on Thursday, October 22, 2009 - 1:50 pm: | |
Freedom55, the Lord will lead you to the truth. Stay with us. It's good in the forum. We learn a lot.
I will keep you in my prayers.
Hec |
Animal
Registered user
Username: Animal
Post Number: 692
Registered: 7-2008
| | Posted on Thursday, October 22, 2009 - 2:59 pm: | |
Stay away from space aliens. Sleep with both eyes open. |
Nowisee
Registered user
Username: Nowisee
Post Number: 160
Registered: 5-2009
| | Posted on Thursday, October 22, 2009 - 3:49 pm: | |
Praying for you, Freedom 55 and all others on this forum and all those reading this forum. I am thankful for prayers offered up when I have needs. It is a privilege to pray for any of you!
Oh, Animal, that's wonderful!! When I went through this same process, then the Bible became so clear on the old & new covenants! It all made sense! How many times in our past have we talked about the ark of the______ which had the stone tablets in it? I was so blind. "He declared to you his covenant, the Ten Commandments, which he commanded you to follow and then wrote them on two stone tablets." Deut. 4:13. There are so many verses that state clearly what you have discovered. How are you doing, Animal? Hope you're much, much better! |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 10543
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, October 22, 2009 - 3:52 pm: | |
Freedom55, I will be praying. God is faithful. He doesn't leave us in the dark!
Colleen |
Pegg
Registered user
Username: Pegg
Post Number: 491
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, October 22, 2009 - 6:03 pm: | |
Oh Man, Freedom!
I DO know what that feels like.
What a moment you will never forget!
This is a miracle that God has given to you.
quote:As a result of my training in the Adventist faith (indoctrination), I was led to believe that when Christ died on the cross it was the ceremonial law of regulations, rituals & sacrifices that came to an end, and that the moral law of the 10 Commandments did not come to an end since they are eternal.
This is a result of your SDA training, Freedom, but you should know that SDA is not the only group that holds this view of splitting the law into moral and ceremonial portions. It is a tenet of Covenant Theology (CT) upon which many Christian churches are founded (although they tend to soften it somewhat more than SDA does). I found this to be a great surprise, and it caused me a good deal of confusion in trying to make sense of much Christian literature.
I believe that are correct in your discovery. Neither Scripture or Jewish history/tradition support this kind of division of the Law.
A great read on this issue is John Reisinger, Tablets of Stone. Once I started, I simply couldn't put it down.
I Pray That The Amazing God Of Both The Old And New Covenant Will Abundantly Bless You On Your Search.
Pegg |
Seekr777
Registered user
Username: Seekr777
Post Number: 801
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, October 22, 2009 - 7:08 pm: | |
Freedom55 and Colleen
THANKS ! !
Richard
rtruitt@mac.com
. |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 10544
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, October 22, 2009 - 10:36 pm: | |
Another good article that discusses how the law came to be seen as divided is in this issue of Proclamation on page 6. http://lifeassuranceministries.org/Proclamation2005_JulAug.pdf
It is written by R.K. McGregor Wright; he's a never-been SDA theologian, and this article is detailed and extremely helpful. It's called, "What Was Nailed to The Cross?"
Colleen |
Doc
Registered user
Username: Doc
Post Number: 449
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, October 23, 2009 - 7:37 am: | |
Good article, Colleen,
Thanks,
Adrian |
River
Registered user
Username: River
Post Number: 5670
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Friday, October 23, 2009 - 9:07 am: | |
Colleen,
I did not read the referred article on page six yet, I read your article: My son,my sin and the New Covenant.
Again this article brought tears to my eyes as I read this example of living in the new covenant.
It brought tears to my eyes, not because of what you learned, but because of the Holy Spirits personal guidance while living under the new covenant.
Under the old covenant the people had to wait on Gods chosen Prophets, under the new, the Holy Spirit has come, to comfort, to guide and correct us.
Thank you again for speaking to my heart again through your gift and desire to be sensitive to the Holy Spirits guidance, your desire to serve so that you would share it with others.
Thank God for Jesus, he has not left us without a comforter.
River |
Nowisee
Registered user
Username: Nowisee
Post Number: 161
Registered: 5-2009
| | Posted on Friday, October 23, 2009 - 4:42 pm: | |
Dear Animal--I think one of the space aliens you warned us about invaded my brain! When I read my post today, I see I was responding to Freedom 55 being happy about the old covenant discovery & thought it was you. (Tired, I guess)
Anyway, I still hope you are feeling better than when you first had the bout with BP! |
Asurprise
Registered user
Username: Asurprise
Post Number: 1079
Registered: 7-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, October 24, 2009 - 1:05 pm: | |
Also check out Deuteronomy 4:13
"So He declared to you His covenant which He commanded you to perform, the Ten Commandments; and He wrote them on two tablets of stone."
Someone - maybe Jeremy? - wrote out a bunch more verses in the Old Testament that say this. I think he quoted four or five.
(Message edited by Asurprise on October 24, 2009) |
Animal
Registered user
Username: Animal
Post Number: 695
Registered: 7-2008
| | Posted on Saturday, October 24, 2009 - 1:09 pm: | |
Hi Nowisee,
I am afraid my condition has not gone any better. I am beginning to think the doctor was wrong in his diagnosis for a speedy recovery(LOL LOL). Had this condition since July and it seems to be in no hurry to go away...sigh. It has gone over to the other side of my face. Makes eating such a great challenge and smiling is out of the question. But I will survive. God has always been good to this animal.
The aliens werent able to help me either. But I appreciated their attempts to help me.
.....Animal |
Hec
Registered user
Username: Hec
Post Number: 678
Registered: 3-2009
| | Posted on Saturday, October 24, 2009 - 1:49 pm: | |
That's tough for an animal. One that not only have to eat but also kill its food with its mouth.
Oh, animal, I'm so sorry. I'm praying for you. Anything that I can do? Please let me know.
Hec |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 10548
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, October 24, 2009 - 10:36 pm: | |
Animal, I'm so sorry! I'm glad you came back to us, though--I'm praying for you.
Colleen |
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