| Author | Message | ||
| Mkfound Registered user Username: Mkfound Post Number: 151 Registered: 1-2011 |
Hi all, I'm posting this in hopes that you all can shed some light on this text. I had been taught that Phil 3:12 suggests that Paul was saying that he had not yet attained the goal of salvation, and therefore we cannot say we are saved. Everytime I read the book of Phililipians I get stuck on this verse. Would someone be able to help break it down? I'm putting the other verses to help contextualize. 7But whatever was to my profit I now consider loss for the sake of Christ. 8What is more, I consider everything a loss compared to the surpassing greatness of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have lost all things. I consider them rubbish, that I may gain Christ 9and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ—the righteousness that comes from God and is by faith. 10I want to know Christ and the power of his resurrection and the fellowship of sharing in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, 11and so, somehow, to attain to the resurrection from the dead. 12Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already been made perfect, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me. 13Brothers, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, 14I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 13043 Registered: 12-2003  |
Paul is saying he has not yet obtained the resurrection from the dead nor perfection. Exactly what he says. But Adventists use this to say that Paul is not saying he has "arrived" and received salvation. But that is NOT what Paul is saying. Paul explains very clearly in Romans 1 through 8 how a person is saved, and he knows he is saved. Salvation, however, does not depend upon achieving perfection. It depends upon receiving the Lord Jesus Christ. In verses 7–11 above, Paul states clearly that he HAS received Jesus--and the "righteousness that comes from God and is by faith." When he received Jesus, He received righteousness...but not perfection. Righteousness does not depend at all upon our actions; it depends upon being covered by Jesus' blood and being born again. In verse 12 Paul is saying he hasn't yet received his perfect body that he will receive at the resurrection from the dead...but he knows he WILL receive it. Verse 14 states that in spite of being imperfect yet declared righteous, he is pressing onward "toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus." Adventism sees that verse as a conditional statement, a "maybe I'll get there and maybe I won't" statement. But that's NOT what Paul is saying. He is saying that his walk here as a Christ-follower is difficult, demanding strain and perseverance, but he will not stop. God HAS CALLED him, and that is an absolute statement of fact. He will reach that prize. He will not stop straining toward it. Verses 7-11 state that He has received Christ and His righteousness; verses 12-14 state that he's not yet in glory. He's saved, but he's not yet glorified. Meanwhile, he suffers and strains, but his outcome is sure. He is not expressing doubt; he's describing his perseverance. The goal is there, and He will reach it. It's a sure thing. Colleen | ||
| Bskillet Registered user Username: Bskillet Post Number: 882 Registered: 8-2008 |
I actually had this exact same problem a few weeks ago. The real difficulty in this is Paul's use of the term somehow in verse 11 ("somehow, to attain to the resurrection..."). The online IVP Commentary has this to say:
Paul isn't saying that his salvation is unsure. He is saying he doesn't know the manner of his reaching the resurrected body. He has previously talked about how he is torn between departing to be with Christ, and staying on earth to minister to the church, implying the possibility of being alive for Christ's return and therefore not actually dying physically (Phil. 1:22-23). As he wrote to the church in Thessalonica, those who do not die will be transformed, as if they had been resurrected from the dead just like those who actually were. | ||
| Mjcmcook Registered user Username: Mjcmcook Post Number: 175 Registered: 2-2011 |
~Bskillet, Thank-you for sharing~ I believe we all should allow these words to saturate our system with their TRUTH! ~*~mj~*~ | ||
| Kelleigh Registered user Username: Kelleigh Post Number: 170 Registered: 7-2011  |
Hi Mk, I agree with Colleen and Bskillet regarding the interpretation. Texts like Phil 3:12 are troublesome because as Adventists we were taught to approach the Bible by focussing on what appear to be ‘non-negotiable verses' and 'proof texts'. We zone in on verses like a moth to the flame. Mezmerised. Doubtful. Fearing. I think we must resist this tendency. Don't zone in. The original manuscripts of the Bible didn’t even have verses to zone-in on. The original manuscripts were read as whole documents. Chapters and verses were added later to aide Bible study – not to direct it. What helped me tremendously was reading all the epistles through a few times - considering the message of a whole letter before considering 'problem' verses in their context. Even reading groups of letters together. Paul's prison letters become much more meaningful when read as a group. Has anyone tried listening to the Bible read aloud? "Hearing the Word" is powerful. That’s the way most early Christians learned about the Gospel. They didn’t have the opportunity to focus in on one or two sentences – they had to listen to the whole sermon to get the message. Likewise letters to the churches were read by the elders as whole documents and then communicated to the church - perhaps simply read aloud at their assemblies (they didn't have photocopiers or email so oral presentation would have been most efficient means of dissemination). Listening to epistles in one sitting can place problem verses into perspective very powerfully. People could consider trying a good Bible translation, one that wasn't used as an Adventist. Familiar passages can sometimes become stale. A fresh translation can assist with discerning something that wasn’t obvious before due to overfamiliarity. Maybe I've missed the mark with my response. Hope this helps. | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 2207 Registered: 7-2007 |
I guess I was never thrown by that, because of all the other passages that say that believers have been saved. (Ephesians 2:8-9; 2nd Timothy 1:9; Titus 3:5 and 1st John 2:12) Besides, earlier in that same passage (verse 9) says that it's Jesus' righteousness, "not having my own righteousness" that counts. |
