| Author | Message | ||
| Darrell |
Denise, I am not using "neo-calvinist" in any technical sense. It is simply a takeoff (play on words) on Lorin's message: "Many of you on this forum, having left Adventism and its Arminian roots, have become Calvinists to varying extents . . ." Anyone this applies to will know who you are. I certainly don't know. Max, I see you like to answer a question with more questions. :) | ||
| Denisegilmore |
Max, Romans 9:11-21 Now those Scriptures say it all don't they. GOD IS SOVEREIGN, GOD IS ALL MIGHTY, GOD IS ALL KNOWING, GOD IS OUR POTTER. Maybe this is why Martin Luther said something to the effect of "All I can do is stand." Thank you Max, May this Mighty God of ours Bless you, Denise | ||
| Max |
Yes, I hate being and refuse to be "the answer man." I'd far rather be "the rain man." | ||
| Denisegilmore |
Hello Darrell, Oh good. For I feared that I might be one of those and didn't know if that is a good thing or a bad thing. It's always good to find out, don't ya think? :) God Bless you, Denise | ||
| Valm |
Hi all, I must say I just couldn't read all that was generated in such a short time. And it is a dilema I have found no clear and concise answer to. My 5 year old sings a song like this: "By and by; when the morning comes; when the saints of God are gathered home; we'll tell the story of how we've overcome; cause we'll understand it better by and by." I don't think we will ever truely understand these atrocities in this life. I can not think of them and hope to understand them better by and by. Valerie | ||
| Max |
TOWER OF BABEL: AN INTRIGUING STORY More questions: 1. Why did these people want to "reach" the heavens where God lived? 2. Why did the Lord say that if they reached the heavens where God lived, nothing they planned to do would be impossible for them? NIV Genesis 11:1 Now the whole world had one language and a common speech. 2 As men moved eastward, they found a plain in Shinar and settled there. 3 They said to each other, "Come, let's make bricks and bake them thoroughly." They used brick instead of stone, and tar for mortar. 4 Then they said, "Come, let us BUILD ourselves a city, with A TOWER THAT REACHES TO THE HEAVENS, so that we may MAKE A NAME for ourselves and not be scattered over the face of the whole earth." 5 But the LORD came down to see the city and the tower that the men were building. 6 The LORD said, "If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then NOTHING THEY PLAN TO DO WILL BE IMPOSSIBLE FOR THEM. 7 Come, let us go down and CONFUSE their language so they will NOT UNDERSTAND each other." 8 So the LORD scattered them from there over all the earth, and they stopped building the city. 9 That is why it was called Babel --because there the LORD CONFUSED THE LANGUAGE OF THE WHOLE WORLD. From there the LORD scattered them over the face of the whole earth. Ps. I never fail to giggle (inwardly) whenever I read, "the LORD came down to see the city and the tower that the men were building." Can you picture that and not laugh? I can't. God IS concerned, don't you know? And God ACTS! He SOLVES problems, and his solutions are always elegant. Pss. Someday I'm going to write this story as a fictive elaboration on the text. I think you'll enjoy reading it as much as I will enjoy writing it. God bless, Max of the Cross | ||
| Maryann |
I just took a VERY quick skim of the above and am very thankful that I am a Christian and don't have to have a label other than Christian;-))) | ||
| George |
If God is a God of love and a just God, It would seem that He wouldn't punish those He CREATED to be evil. But then again He can do what ever He wants to do. It seems to me then, that this whole experience of sin and then salvation is a farce. Why should anyone want to strive for salvation if God is up there indiscrimanently picking some to be evil. How do we know which one we are. If I am one of the ones that He chose to be evil then I may as well have some fun now, because there wont be any later!! How can we trust a God like that? I feel quite betrayed to be to be in a groupe where I may be picked to be the evil one and not know it, all the while thinking I could actually get to heaven. How deshonest can this be? Maybe it IS all a big joke!!! George | ||
| Denisegilmore |
Dear George, Oh no, this is no joke. Please don't even begin to think that. Here are some Scriptures that I'm hoping will help you understand a little better. But never think that God is unjust for He isn't. We are only human and sometimes it's easy to get into this type of thinking but when you do, get into your Bible and read 1 John, Ephesians, Romans, Galatians and more. Read these and focus on the Truth. Pray before reading that the Holy Spirit will direct your thought to Truth. 1 John 2:28-29 And now, dear children, continue in him, so that when he appears we may be confident and unashamed before him at his coming. If you know that He is righteous, you know that everyone who does what is right has been born of him. 1 John 3:1-3 "How great is the love the Father has lavished on us, that we should be called CHILDREN OF GOD! And THAT IS WHAT WE ARE! The reason the world does not know us is that it did not know him. Dear friends, NOW WE ARE CHILDREN OF GOD, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when he appears, WE SHALL BE LIKE HIM, FOR WE SHALL SEE HIM AS HE IS. Everyone who has this hope in him purifies himself, just as he is pure." May God Himself Bless you George, with this Hope, Denise | ||
| Denisegilmore |
George again, Here's some more Scripture for you George. Please read these. God Bless you with HIS Peace. 1 John 3:18-24 "Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but with actions and in truth. THIS THEN IS HOW WE KNOW THAT WE BELONG TO THE TRUTH. THIS THEN IS HOW WE KNOW THAT WE BELONG TO THE TRUTH, AND HOW WE SET OUR HEARTS AT REST IN HIS PRESENCE WHENEVER OUR HEARTS CONDEMN US. FOR GOD IS GREATER THAN OUR HEARTS, AND HE KNOWS EVERYTHING. Dear friends, IF OUR HEARTS DO NOT CONDEMN US, WE HAVE CONFIDENCE BEFORE GOD AND RECEIVE FROM HIM ANYTHING WE ASK, BECAUSE WE OBEY HIS COMMANDS AND DO WHAT PLEASES HIM. AND THIS IS HIS COMMAND: TO BELIEVE IN THE NAME OF HIS SON, JESUS CHRIST, AND TO LOVE ONE ANOTHER AS HE COMMANDED US. THOSE WHO OBEY HIS COMMANDS LIVE IN HIM, AND HE IN THEM. AND THIS IS HOW WE KNOW THAT HE LIVES IN US: WE KNOW IT BY THE SPIRIT HE GAVE US. God Be with you George as you read these wonderful Truths and see that you BELONG to God's Kingdom. You are not meant for wrath George or God wouldn't have led you to this forum or led you to be who you are. You have a heart for God and for your neighbor. It comes through so clearly in your posts. Be of good Cheer George! God has some GREAT plans for you! Denise | ||
| Denisegilmore |
George, Ephesians 1:11-14 "In him we were also chosen, having been PREDESTINED according to the plan of him who works everything in conformity with the purpose of his will, in order that we, who were the first to HOPE IN CHRIST, MIGHT BE FOR THE PRAISE OF HIS GLORY. AND YOU ALSO WERE INCLUDED IN CHRIST WHEN YOU HEARD THE WORD OF TRUTH, THE GOSPEL OF YOUR SALVATION. HAVING BELIEVED, YOU WERE MARKED IN HIM WITH A SEAL, THE PROMISED HOLY SPIRIT, WHO IS A DEPOSIT GUARANTEEING OUR INHERITANCE UNTIL THE REDEMPTION OF THOSE WHO ARE GOD'S POSSESSION-TO THE PRAISE OF HIS GLORY." | ||
| Denisegilmore |
George, Ephesians 2:4-8 "But because of his great MERCY, made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions-IT IS BY GRACE YOU HAVE BEEN SAVED. And God RAISED US UP WITH CHRIST AND SEATED US WITH HIM IN THE HEAVENLY REALMS IN CHRIST JESUS, In order that in the coming ages he might show the INCOMPARABLE RICHES OF HIS GRACE, EXPRESSED IN HIS KINDNESS TO US IN CHRIST JESUS. FOR IT IS BY GRACE YOU HAVE BEEN SAVED, THROUGH FAITH-AND THIS NOT FROM YOURSELVES, IT IS THE GIFT OF GOD-NOT BY WORKS, SO THAT NO ONE CAN BOAST. FOR WE ARE GOD'S WORKMANSHIP, CREATED IN CHRIST JESUS TO DO GOOD WORKS, WHICH GOD PREPARED IN ADVANCE FOR US TO DO." | ||
| Denisegilmore |
George again, Ephesians 1:4-10 "For HE CHOSE US IN HIM BEFORE THE CREATION OF THE WORLD TO BE HOLY AND BLAMELESS IN HIS SIGHT. IN LOVE HE PREDISTINED US TO BE ADOPTED AS HIS SONS THROUGH JESUS CHRIST, IN ACCORDANCE WITH HIS GOOD PLEASURE AND WILL-TO THE PRAISE OF HIS GLORIOUS GRACE, WHICH HE HAS FREELY GIVEN US IN THE ONE HE LOVES. IN HIM WE HAVE REDEMPTION THROUGH HIS BLOOD, THE FORGIVENESS OF SINS, IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE RICHES OF GOD'S GRACE THAT HE LAVISHED ON US WITH ALL WISDOM AND UNDERSTANDING. AND HE MADE KNOWN TO US THE MYSTERY OF HIS WILL ACCORDING TO HIS GOOD PLEASURE, WHICH HE PURPOSED IN CHRIST, TO BE PUT INTO EFFECT WHEN THE TIMES WILL HAVE REACHED THEIR FULFILLMENT-TO BRING ALL THINGS IN HEAVEN AND ON EARTH TOGETHER UNDER ONE HEAD, EVEN CHRIST." | ||
| Denisegilmore |
George, Ephesians 1:17-20 "I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the Spirit of wisdom and revelation, SO THAT YOU MAY KNOW HIM BETTER. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened IN ORDER THAT YOU MAY KNOW THE HOPE TO WHICH HE HAS CALLED YOU, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his INCOMPARABLY GREAT POWER FOR US WHO BELIEVE. THAT POWER IS LIKE THE WORKING OF HIS MIGHTY STRENGTH, WHICH HE EXERTED IN CHRIST WHEN HE RAISED HIM FROM THE DEAD AND SEATED HIM AT HIS RIGHT HAND IN THE HEAVENLY REALMS," | ||
| Denisegilmore |
George, 1 Peter 2:9-10 "But you are A CHOSEN PEOPLE, A ROYAL PRIESTHOOD, A HOLY NATION, A PEOPLE BELONGING TO GOD, that you may declare the praises of Him WHO CALLED YOU OUT OF DARKNESS INTO HIS WONDERFUL LIGHT. Once you were not a people, but now YOU ARE THE PEOPLE OF GOD; once you had not recieved mercy, but now YOU HAVE RECIEVED MERCY." | ||
| Denisegilmore |
Everyone: "As they were going out, they met a man from Cyrene, named Simon, and they forced him to carry the cross. They came to a place called Golgotha (which means The Place of the Skull). There they offered Jesus wine to drink, mixed with gall; but after tasting it, he refused to drink it. When they had crucified him, they divided up his clothes by casting lots. And sitting down, they kept watch over him there. Above his head they placed the written charge against him: THIS IS JESUS, THE KING OF THE JEWS. Two robbers were crucified with him, one on his right and one on his left. Those who passed by hurled insults at him, shaking their heads and saying, "You who are going to destroy the temple and build it in three days, save yourself! Come down from the cross, if you are the Son of God!" In the same way the chief priests, the teachers of the law and the elders mocked him. "He saved others," they asked, "but he can't save himself! He's the King of Israel! Let him come down now from the cross, and we will believe in him. He trusts in God. Let God rescue him now if he wants him, for he said, 'I AM THE SON OF GOD.'" In the same way the robbers who were crucified with him also heaped insults on him. From the sixth hour until the ninth hour darkness came over all the land. About the ninth hour Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "ELOI, ELOI, LAMA SABACHTHANI?" which means, "MY GOD, MY GOD, WHY HAVE YOU FORSAKEN ME?" When some of those standing there heard this, they said, "He's calling Elijah." Immediately one of them ran and got a sponge. He filled it with wine vinegar, put it on a stick, and offered it to Jesus to drink. The rest said, "Now leave him alone. Let's see if Elijah comes to save him." And when Jesus had cried out again in a loud voice, he gave up his spirit. At that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth shook and the rocks split. The tombs broke open and the bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life. They came out of the tombs, and after Jesus' resurrection they went into the holy city and appeared to many people. When the centurion and those with him who were guarding Jesus saw the earthquake and all that had happened, they were terrified, and exclaimed, "SURELY HE WAS THE SON OF GOD!" | ||
| Max |
It has been posted, "Why should anyone want to strive for salvation if God is up there indiscrimanently picking some to be evil?" Precisely! Whoever posted this has "seen with blinding sight" that there NO POINT in striving for salvation! You either have it or you don't. Grace! Grace! God's grace! Grace that is greater than all our sin! Max of the Cross | ||
| Max |
However, I would hesitate to agree with the word "indiscrimanently" as applied to God's sovereignty. How could we possibly know that his choices are indiscrimanent? | ||
| Max |
IT'S TIME TO RESTORE THE SCRIPTURAL TEACHING OF PREDESTINATION Romans 8:29ÝFor those God FOREKNEW he also PREDESTINED to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. Romans 8:30ÝAnd those he PREDESTINED, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified. Ephesians 1:5Ý...he PREDESTINED us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with HIS pleasure and will.... Ephesians 1:11ÝIn him we were also chosen, having been PREDESTINED according to the plan of HIM who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of HIS will.... | ||
| Loneviking |
Whoa! Hold on there Max! Just what does 'predestined' mean? I'm not a neo-Calvinist, I went with the Church of Christ and their theology just doesn't track that way. We had a study a couple of weeks ago on predestination and the church came too was that 'predestined' simply means a predetermined outcome irrespective of who you are. In other words, God didn't predertimine that Max was going to be saved and be a Christian. Instead, God set up a certain 'track' if you will, that when entered on winds up with you being a Christian---whoever you are. There is a case to be made for specific predestination for a couple of the prophets, such as Jeremiah---but the conclusion we came too is that God stands outside of time and history/knows the end from the beginning and the expression here is a reflection of that. Anyway, this is a short synopsis of what I see from the study. I don't believe that God looks down and says "Hey you, you're supposed to be a Christian--what are you doing over with the Pagans?" Well, we'll just have to change this and moves you around as if you're a piece on a chessboard! |
