| Author | Message | ||
| Lori |
Rich, it is not for any of to judge what you decide to do concerning your wife. If you decide to leave her, to no longer support her, to abandon her because she rejects what you want her to embrace and if doing so provides you with inner peace from God, then so be it. Only God knows all the circumstances and who knows--being "left" may be what opens your wifes eyes and makes her reach out to Christ instead of holding on to Adventism. I know in my marriage, if my husband had left me BECAUSE I was an Adventist and he wasn't. I would have assumed because of my "Adventist mindset" that he was evil and I had been freed from his bondage and that in being "released" I could be even a "better Adventist". You know your wife, you know her values. How would she perceive such an action? Where would it push her? Does she want to be free of you? or Would it be devastating? I know that my posts have been lengthy but I'm trying to "go back" to what I used to be and think of how my mind would have received certain actions from my husband. Four years ago when I first moved back near my parents, I was thrilled because I was going to be able to be a better Adventist. It was still hard at home because my non-Adventist husband did things on Saturday and Friday night (watching TV,etc.) that weren't the "Adventist Home". Had my husband at that time "laid down the law" and said "OK, Lori, I will tolerate your Adventist nonsense no longer, you will be entirely a faith based believer or I'm leaving you and taking the kids with me. You have until next Friday at sundown to prove that you can violate the Sabbath and still be a believer in Christ and be saved or I'm out of here!" What would I have done? I would have taken my children and moved in with my parents before Friday at sundown ever arrived!!!! My husband would have been the anti-Christ himself in my mind. The tribulation would have seemed to be starting, I would have been driven by fear. I would have felt like it was time to run for the mountains. My beliefs would have been more validated than before. I would truly see that I was being persecuted for my stand of "keeping the commandments of God". I would have been afraid of my husband--if he said "OK, honey, since we just can't believe the same way, I'm just going to divorce you and we will go our separate ways". I would have still concluded it was God's way of freeing me up to be a better Adventist. I don't know if this helps or not--but I've been the unbelieving Adventist wife married to a true believer. | ||
| Rich |
Lydell The Goal is simple: Follow the whole counsel of God. Not pick and choose what she likes or what I like. Rich | ||
| Lazycat |
To Rich and everyone, After reading all the posts on this thread, I see lots of christian love and concern for their brother in Christ. It is difficult to write instead of talk. When you are talking to someone face to face, you can read into what they are saying by seeing their facial expressions and hearing the tone of their voice. You can also ask questions and make comments at the same time. I find it difficult to get the full meaning of what someone is saying when I can only read it and not hear it. Rich, I don't believe anyone is trying to say that you don't pray for your wife, or that you're not submissive to God, or that you are wrong. We can only go on what you give us and how we interpret it and make suggestions to help. If we didn't care we wouldn't be concerned and wouldn't try to help. If we are misunderstanding your questions, maybe you could try to clarify. We can have disagreements, misunderstandings and also agree to disagree. And still love each other in Christ. On another note, just wanted to let everyone know that this thread has shed light on some problems in my own marriage. I grew up SDA. After I left home, I left the church and God. My parents are still SDA's. Years later, I felt the need for God in my life but was hesitant because of the SDA background. Found the truth and freedom of Christ. This was after I had married a non-christian. So, I too, have had difficulties with the SDA thing and my marriage. 1 Peter 3:1 Wives, in the same way be submissive to your husbands so that, if any of them do not believe the word, they may be won over without words by the behavior of their wives, when they see the purity and reverence of you lives I love reading this forum. You may be trying to work out your own problems on here and never know who is out there reading and not posting (as I have for the last 2 years) and is blessed by the conversations posted here. Col 3:12-17 .....clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience...... We love because HE first loved us. (1 John 4) Kim | ||
| Lazycat |
Rich, "The Goal is simple: Follow the whole counsel of God. Not pick and choose what she likes or what I like." I think I understand what you are saying. Know that we (in different situations) somewhat understand what you are going through. Some of us were formally SDA's and have loved one's that still are. It's hard when they don't see what we see and understand what we understand. We forget that at one time we too believed false doctrine and that it wasn't our own effort that set us free from that. He opened our hearts and our eyes to His truth. Even the elect can be fooled. 2 Cor 4:3-4....gospel is veiled.....god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers.... Not picking and choosing....growth. He has to open our hearts and eyes to His truth and we need to accept this truth and follow it. Not everyone automatically follows everything the bible says in one day. It is a growth process. We pray for guidance from the Holy Spirit in our studies and sincerely seek His truth. Until your eyes are opened to the truth how can you know what truth is? (Once your eyes are open...it's like a flood gate.) When I was an SDA (I went to SDA school) and had bible studies and thought I was learning the truth. When I truly came to the Lord with a sincere heart, that is when my eyes were opened. I didn't open them, no one else opened them, HE opened them. God may use us to lead someone to Him but it is His work not ours. I have had conversations with my mom and sister (sadly I can't even bring up this subject with my dad...he starts spouting EGW) about the Gospel and they just don't get it. They think I am lost. It breaks my heart. Not because I want to be right but because I want them to know Grace, Love and Mercy. I want to share this joy with them. What this all boils down to is, I don't think I could FOLLOW His truth until I KNOW His truth. And if you can remember SDA doctrine...they preach against people trying to pull them away from their beliefs. SDA's feel threatened by this. If this is what your wife is experiencing, she won't be willing to submit to you or your beliefs, she will probably fear you. Until, the Lord opens her eyes to His truth, she will not be in agreement with you, because she must first be in agreement with God. She must understand the Bible to live by it. That's where your prayers, patience, grace, forgiveness and yes that "L" word comes in. As the "leader" you have a very tough job ahead of you. To lead your family to Christ. Not of your own work but as His work. I'm sure that you are praying for His guidance in this. You and your family are definitely in my prayers. That's where all the great love and advice on this site comes together. We have been SDA or know an SDA, or have family that's still SDA. We know the brick walls, the blindness to truth,the heart ache and frustration. We try to console, share and pray with each other. Kim | ||
| Chuckiej |
Just reading about this issue pains me greatly. I remember the turmoil my family endured during my father's alcoholism. A divided home is difficult for everyone involved, so first and foremost Rich, I have been and will continue to pray for you, your wife, and children. For my two cents, I would have to say that we must look to Christ's example and command of loving one another as He loves us. (Jn. 15:12). Christ's disciples were impenetrably dense all too often. They misunderstood or denied His clearest teachings on his death and resurrection (Mt 16:21,22). After all His teachings about the necessity of the Crucificxion, Peter still cut off the high priest's servant's ear (Lk. 22:20). Yet Jesus never abandoned these poor thick-headed souls. He stuck with them, and gave them the comission to preach the Gospel to the whole world (Mt 28:19). Thus, even though your wife can't/won't see what you can see, Christ's new commandment demands that you don't give up on her. There is of course, the shaking-the-dust-off-your feet thing, but I would think that doesn't apply to one's spouse. Christ made it clear that sexual immorality is the only valid reason for divorce (Mt. 5:32, Mt. 19:1-8). Paul confronted the question of unbelieving spouses in I Cor. 7. Giving his opinion, not a command from the Lord (I Cor. 7:12) he states that it's up to the unbeliever to decide whether they will stay or go (v. 12, 15), but that the believer shouldn't "put them away." Thus as you are the believer, if your wife wants to stick it out, hang in there. Finally, there's the difficult issue of your children, and your desire to keep them from false doctrine. I certainly understand that, but I have to tell you, the Lord doesn't stop Jehovah's Witnesses from knocking on my door. He doesn't muzzle my barber so he can't spout Muslim nonsense about Judas being on the cross instead of Jesus in my ear. Instead, He's given me His Word, His Spirit, and critical thinking skills to discern truth from error. Equip your children with the whole armor, and they won't fall. | ||
| Colleentinker |
Rich, I am continuing to pray for you and your wife. I know I'm a wife, not a husband, but I do understand your frustration at least in part. Chuck, above, mentioned something I think is an important idea. 1 Corinthians 7 12-16 talks about staying with the unbelieving spouse if the spouse does not wish to leave. Sometimes, I think it helps to see our Adventist loved ones as unbelievers because they often do not experience the grace of Jesus. This passage is powerful for the following reason. When we accept Jesus, we become the temple of the Holy Spirit. If we have an unbelieving spouse, and that spouse does not wish to leave us, he or she is choosing to stay in the presence of God. She's choosing to stay in/with God's temple. This situation isn't about us. It's about Jesus. If we're willing to let everything go--even our God-given leadership and spiritual understanding--and let Jesus alone fill our minds and hearts, that's when we discocver the freedom to live without internal stress. Your wife can tell (I'm speaking as a wife!) if you are trusting Jesus with your life and with her. If you are not, if you are holding onto your "job" of leading her and the family in the paths of truth--she can perceive that your role is more significant to you than she is. She can sense that you are not resting in Christ. As the God-appointed spiritual leader of your home, if you are not resting in Christ and allowing Him to hold your wife in his hand and to teach her with his Spirit, your frustration and anger are dominating your home, not the grace and love of Christ. If she is an "unbelieving spouse", insisting that she change will only make matters worse. Continuing to point out her doctrinal and spiritual error will only make her defensive. Notice that verse 15 in 1 Cor. 7 says, "...God has called us to live in peace." This clause refers to an unbelieving spouse leaving. But it also applies to living with one. If she wants to stay with you, as God's temple and as the one who represents the love of Christ in your home, you are called to live in peace. Living in peace doesn't mean you don't speak truth. But only the Holy Spirit can inform you when to actually do the speaking. God is asking you to learn to give him each moment of anger, each flash of righteous indigination, each moment of hopelessness, and each impulse you have to assert your God-given authority. Yes, your authority is God-given, but the corollary to that is that God gives you the wisdom to know how to exercise it. The truth and authority and roles God gives us are ultimately his, not ours. He grants them to us, and he also shows us how to use them. When we think we have certain rights because of what the Bible says, we are misunderstanding God's grace. Everything we are and do belongs to Him. Our job is to stand before him in humility and allow him to show us how to love, when to speak, what to say, and how to act. Our job is not to grasp what the Bible says is ours. Our job is to stand humbly before God and ask him to show us how to be what the Bible says we should be. Rich, I know you're hurting, and your kids are hurting, and your wife is hurting. I just appeal to you to let go of your certainty that you must fulfill your role in certain ways. Give everything up to Jesus. Stand before him and tell him you're giving him your headship, your fatherhood, your wife. Let it all go into Jesus' hands. Stand before him empty, and ask him to show you the truth. Ask him to help you know what he wants you to know and to help you become what he wants you to be. Ask him to make you willing to love as he wants you to love, and don't assume you know what that will look like! Ask God to be in your marriage and to glorify himself through it. Let Jesus love you in a new, more vulnerable and intimate way. Let Jesus take your anger. Let Jesus be your rest. You can stop worrying about your family; Jesus will hold them. You can give up your need to perform your Biblical roles and instead wait patiently before God, asking him to show you what he wants you to do at each moment. You can let all the responsibility go--you can live in rest! Jesus is the Lord of you and your family. You can trust him to work out his salvation in his way and in his time. You can learn to rest in his love, and you can be free to learn to love your wife for him and to accept the love of your family. I continue to pray for you and for your wife. In Jesus, Colleen | ||
| Shereen |
Rich, I feel so sorry for your wife. So many men I have known have used the bible to control their wife and that is what I feel you are doing. I have held back from commenting and really don't have much to say to you because it just won't be heard anyway. I would, however, like to hug your wife and I will pray for her. Poor thing needs you to LET UP! | ||
| Allenette |
Sheesh man you either love her or you dont. If you have made children, you have an 18 year responsibility to them, whether you love their mother or not. The ho hum reilgious conversations mean nothing to children. Considerations therein only help to f-up the reality in favor of the parent(s) who want out of their responsibilities. I am TIREd of paying my tax dollars for LOSER'S like yours, progeny. Find a way to keep it in your pants, for God's sake (and your potential childrens) | ||
| Chuckiej |
Allenette, The parts of your post that weren't totally incomprehensible and irrelevant were offensive. That rant will in no way help Rich's wife or children. All it will serve to do is further upset a man who has plenty to deal with as it is. If you have something constructive to contribute, please do so. If not, please don't add unnecessarily to another person's burden. | ||
| Rich |
I donít have time for a lengthy post. Just a few points. 1) To those who respond as pit pulls (whether cloaked in ìchristianize" or not) ñ The Lord Rebuke you! 2) To those who respond with thoughtful comments ñ The Lord Bless you! Even tho some of you may think I am not listening at times, I am. As someone said, we donít have to agree on every point, and I certainly donít agree on every point. But as I consider some of the more thoughtful ñ insightful comments, God has spoken through you. Thank you for allowing yourselves to be used by Him. God can and is intervening in more ways than I could explain. Some of His ways are very painful to both my wife and I. Your prayers are appreciated, even if you are praying against me Shereen - instead of for us. For God knows the truth better than me, my wife, or anyone else. The simple fact that our situation is being brought before the Lord of Glory is enough right now. It is all that matters right now. Rich SDG | ||
| Allenette |
Chuckie: My "rant" was not incomprehensible. All the "Lord Talk" in the world and/or Psychobafflegab soft talk will not get to the point for males/females who want to control their families with Bible quotes! People who are control freaks will continually find ways to manipulate their underlings, whether they are employees or wives or children or whoever. It is a shame that a wife, with all the implications, would be considered an underling, which is obviously the case in Rich's posts..... I've seen it up front and personal, in some of my family members...and the FINAL SOLUTION was divorce and GET AWAY. nuff said, no fancy Lord Talk from me sorry. :-) | ||
| Colleentinker |
Prayers for you and your wife continue, Rich. I'm convinced that one of the places Christians experience spiritual attack often is in their marriages. There's a reason marriage is the model for Christ and the church. There's no relationship where we can hurt or be hurt more deeply. I think one of the best things we can do for each other is to pray for each other and each other's marriages. And we can give our marriages to God and ask him to glorify himself through them. Our marriages are entities disticnt from our individual selves. God can do things through our marriages--through us as couples--that would not be possible with individuals. Without the Holy Spirit, marriage is likely to be a relationship of manipulation, of rigidity, of disconnection, of self-gratification. With the Holy Spirit, marriage becomes a relationship of intimacy. But each person in the marriage goes through honing and refining as God makes the relationship one that glorifies him. It's not easy to be married--what an unnecessary understatement. But it's not easy to be a Christ-follower, either. The Holy Spirit redeems us and our relationships! Praising God for loving us enough to give us each other, Colleen | ||
| Graceambassador |
Dear Rich: I do not know you but I already love you with "delphos" love! You are a corageous man. The Lord only know how I resisted writing this piece! Let me be bold and attempt to reason as to why I think the Lord is pulling you through the way you said He is: I teach in my travellings (note that I never been an SDA thus totally ignorant of your feelings) that Ephesians 5, the "subjection" text is misread because of the division of chapters, which I hope we all agree, is not inspired. The subject actually starts in chapter 4, which is a series of instructions on CURCH GOVERNMENT AND RELATIONSHIPS. The word "therefore" appears in the first verse of chapter 5 and the reason it is "there for" is to link it to chapter 4. When Paul instructs the church to "submit one to another in the fear of God" he knew that this could pose a problem for the baby church, composed of jew and gentiles since such an instruction could be taken in a carnal way, where the beautiful concept of "subjection one to another" could become an excuse for fornication and bring an environment where man would "boss women around" in church. Unvortunately, because of this text being so out of context, the effect is the very opposite! Paul actually says the following: verse 22: (in the same line of thought of verse 21) Wives submit yourselves to your OWN HUSBAND! The word OWN (HUSBAND) there is key! What is my point? My point is that the "subjection" Paul speaks about is not as to whether women should have a bank account or not or as to whether she should be subservient. We're all called to be servants one to another. The issue here is PRECISELY SUBJECTION IN THEOLOGICAL MATTERS AND CHURCH ORDER AS IN YOUR CASE AT THIS POINT. Blessedness to a family could only come when true spiritual authority, or theological matters to which a woman should be subject, to a married woman would and should and, indeed, MUST come from her saved husband (note saved husband) Not as an imposition, but as a POSITION of responsibility before the Lord as DELEGATED RESPONSIBILITY. Jesus had authority over the Church to "save her and sanctify her" and Jesus' bride would serve him serving its own members! We all know MINISTERS that can't take care of their own brides and SHOULD TAKE THEIR HANDS OFF THE BRIDE OF CHRIST AND STOP BOSSING AROUND OTHER MARRIED MEN'S BRIDES! This is in line with the teaching of Paul in Timothy about married woman in the Church, NOT USURPING THE AUTHORITY OF HER HUSBAND IN THE CHURCH, and the context is theological teaching! (Tim 2:12) and also some in Titus. You have taken this position... Regardless of what is being said, and of what the secular wisdom teaches, you have taken a position before the Lord that your wife would be better served spiritually if she would follow your SPIRITUAL AUTHORITY RATHER THAN ANY OTHER AUTHORITY IN THE CHURCH LEGITIMATE OR NOT! (Just a personal note before I go on... I know many in this forum will begin to feel sorry for my own wife. But just to appease them, my wife owns my life. She has all the accounts, the bills, she tells me what restaurants to go, she even helps in preparation of my messages. But when I say "this is what the Lord is telling me to preach" that is it! She just does not usurp my authority. If she has anything to say in my service, I allow because I know that she is always in line with the same God who inspired me!) BACK TO YOU: God honors this type of courage. The courage you now display! Some said that you should love your wife through Christ. Great concept but where is the practical application of that? The Bible, Grace, is REVEALED, there is no mystery and there is no need for VAGUE CONCEPTS AND CLICHES. We have a clear revelation of what we must do: Take a position of authority DELEGATED BY GOD. This is in no way "damaging to loving your wife" as I understood many here saying it is. Your original point is "loving the unlovable". You did it without resigning your delegated aurhority to lead your family in spiritual affairs and before the real ek-klesia! All at the risk of being misjudged and criticised! God honors that! I do not know you, but I know God! And the God I know honors this type of courageous stance! Expect a blessing, a deliverance in such a way that will baffle the naysayers. Note that God's deliverance is in most cases something so creative and original that there is no doubt in the end that it had to be God! I hope this helps Grace Ambassador screen name Milton Almeida - real name | ||
| Rich |
Collen, Thank you for your thoughts. They are an encouragement. I believe that the Holy Sprit is the only source of "power" in the believerís life. I think that is your point. Being male, this tends to be a challenge to me personally (although I know it is not endemic to all males). I have been reading secrets of the vine (by Wilkinson). I'm looking for myself in the book now. This is not easy to admit but I feel I have been under God's rebuke or maybe even chastening during recent weeks. Why? That was my first question to God. As I prayed for God to tell me, one word kept coming to me "Attitude". I'm still working on what exactly He means but there it is. Iím thinking it may have to do with my tendency to ìattackî false teaching. More personally, to attack it in my home. Maybe it has to do with that truth in love thing :> Rich SDG | ||
| Rich |
Milton Thanks for you post. Iím going to have to get my bible out and follow you verse by verse on this one. Which is great! My first impression is that I would agree with your position as far as it is stated. But, frankly that leaves me know further down the road (today). But, between your scriptural confirmation, and others thoughtful comments, there must be a Holy Spirit led balance to deal with my situation. If you read me response to Colleen above you can see what may be the result in my acting in the flesh. Having the knowledge but not the understanding on how the apply it in a God honoring way. A way that my wife can respond to like your wife responds to you. Anyway. Thanks much. A few of the posts in this thread were a bit discouraging but there have been several recently that have been a real blessing (yours, Colleenís etc.) I had planned to know return a few days ago. Praise God I did, for he has blessed me. Rich SDG | ||
| Chuckiej |
GA I'm also going to pull out my Bible and read the Scriptures you reference point by point. However, I also want to ask for clarification of your reading of it. Are you saying that a woman should submit to her husbands theology even if she believes it to be illegitimate? So if he thinks the Lord is moving him to teach Arianism, she should go along with it? Furthermore, you emphasize a "saved husband." Every one who says "Lord Lord" isn't gonna make it, so how does the wife determine if he's saved? Jesus says in Matt. 7:21 that it's those who do the will of the Father. So isn't it still up to the wife to exercise some independent judgement to determine whether her husband is really saved before following his theology? I'm going to look into those verses myself, but I would like some clarification on your opinion. | ||
| Shereen |
Rich, You took it wrong, I am not praying against you but I am praying for your wife to have some peace and contentment. This may be a mistake as I don't know how your wife feels because we never hear from her but I know how I would feel and have felt about this kind of situation in my life. I am one (no matter how the bible is interpreted) that cannot and will not be subjected to a man. No man will ever be boss over me. No man will ever, ever have authority over me. The one thing I hate more than anything else is the way you all talk about "allowing your wives to do things" makes me scream. I am having alot of trouble writing this out because I am a very emotional type person. I get extremely defensive and angry when I hear men and sometimes women saying that the husband is head of the house, the husband has authority over the wife, the husband gives permission for the wife to say or do things. AAAAARRRRRGGGGGHHHHHH!!!!!!! I have a wonderful marriage to a wonderful man, although he is an atheist, and we do everything together. We discuss and come to conclusions about almost everything together. There are things we both give in to, like I want my children to pray and he has asked that I don't let the children be exposed to only one religion, but to let them see for themselves etc. My stance is that it has to be a Christian religion and be agree to disagree on this one. If I thought for a second that it was true that men had authority over women, I wouldn't stay a Christian. If that is the kind of God I worship then I don't want it. Like I have said before, I have seen too many men use the bible to control their wife and children. I have seen men gloat over being "the boss" but look at their wife's face. Is she happy? In most cases, no. I have seen my dad "lord it" over my mom to the point where she lost all her spirit and all seven of us kids were totally disfunctional. I see a lonely sick old man these days whose kids and exwife don't comfort him when he so desperately needs it. I see someone who broke everyones spirit to be the "man" and now he is a pitiful wreck. Rich, I pray for your wife because I can see things from her side. I cannot, with my whole body and soul, understand your way of thinking. Shereen | ||
| Rich |
Shereen, You have bigger problems than worrying about praying for me and my situation. Ever thought the Lord is trying to teach you something by being exposed to Christians talking about the trials and tribulations of living the Christian life within a marriage? Christians struggling for answers to hard questions about the roles of the husband and wife. The scripture is there because God has ordained order in the world, church and home. We (men and women) fill our roles in submission to that ordained order. To reject that order is to reject God Himself. The God of the scriptures has provided clear teaching on the family and roles in marriage. Maybe you can with clear conscience get your scissors out and cut Eph 5 and other relevant passages out of Holy scripture to make God into the image you want Him to be, but I cannot. I believe that all of scripture is inspired by God. I believe that even those hard sayings like "love your wife as Christ loves the church" and "the Husband is head over the wife" and ìsubmit to your own husbandî are inspired by God. Manipulating and reinterpreting clear teaching is the work of the devil and creates another Gospel. This is what SDA's do well with many scriptures. I'll have none of it. Lastly, I appreciate your prayers for my wife. She needs them more than I do for she is deceived in many areas and struggling because of it. But she is not deceived in all areas. Because of that, Iím not so sure you can see things from her perspective. I can tell you that she would take you to task for much of what you said in your post. Frankly I think she would be mortified by the general tenor and underlying message (I'll only worship a God that I like ie in my image). We were made in His image, not the other way around I'll pray that God will soften your heart toward the truth of His Word. Rich SDG | ||
| Graceambassador |
Dear Chuck Thank you for the opportunity of clarifying a key point. I was obviously writing with Rich's situation in focus and not writing a treatise on "marriage relationships". If that would be the case I would have exegeted the word "head" used in this text and then MOST women in this forum would consider me the "nicest guy in town" and MOST men a sissy. That, of course, if they would not accept the word of God... (chuckles...) The answer to your question: However, I also want to ask for clarification of your reading of it. Are you saying that a woman should submit to her husbands theology even if she believes it to be illegitimate? is NO. I made sure I emphasized "saved men", but I did not feel it necessary to speak about spiritual authority. If you read my posts throughout this forum you will find that my concept of "salvation" is a little different from some brethren in this forum. I was asked by the owners of this forum not to discuss this subject any longer, and I will not rebel. That would be a sin as the "sin of wichcraft". Unless, of course, I see some blunt heresy. I cannot discuss salvation without speaking about what I read in the Bible to be the source and method thereof. Should you want to discuss further the issue of salvation and spiritual authority, please, request my private e-mail, and then send me yours. I will send it to you and we can have a good time without offending anyone. The "un-saved" husband is "sanctified by the wife" as taught in the Bible, but this is only a PASSIVE STANCE. He has no power nor authority, including, but not limited to, SPIRITUAL AUTHORITY. In this case, the Lord, as in all cases, is the Sanctifying agent via the wife (I'd hate to use the word "channel"). The wife here in SPIRITUAL MATTERS IS THE BOSS. But remember, we are not speaking of "ABERRANT CHRISTIANITY" NOR "SECT" NOR "PARA-CHRISTIANITY". I always refer to the Biblical-historical faith. I will stop here SO WE DO NOT LOSE FOCUS. Rich richly possesses this authority as a believer in Grace as opposed to a supressed systems of laws and additions to the revealed word. I hope this helps! Grace Ambassador | ||
| Shereen |
You know what?!?!? I am finished with this channel. Good bye and I won't check msg's so don't bother to respond. Richard, Colleen, please take out my name and password. |
