| Author | Message | ||
| Derrell (Derrell) |
Thank you. I do enjoy listening to Praise music, and I do alot of praying. As I am sure most of you know, this is a frightening experience, but my wife and I have found that there are a surprising number of people in the church who are closet "former Adventists". Most were simply afraid to say anything until someone said something to them. It is nice to know that we are not alone. I recently read an article that gave a brief summary of an administrative meeting in which a Dale Ratzlaff book was picked apart. In conclusion, a fine conference leader, with whom I am currently working on a project in NY, said that this book would be very dangerous and convincing reading for Adventist lay people who are not as well educated in SDA doctrine as are the theologians. They seemed particularly afraid that the 2300 day prophecy was placed on very thin ice, and they stated that if that particular doctrine were to crumble, "there is no reason for us (the SDA Church) to exist." Bravo Dale Ratzlaff! God is using you to help unravel the lies that we live with and knock down the papier mache walls that have kept us blinded to salvation. I know that it has been very difficult for you and Caroline. I have heard the jabs made at you from the family, but I thank God for you guys, and for everyone on this forum who has had the courage to face the scary prospect of leaving the "Remnant church", "the Body of Christ", and taking the hatred and shunning that follows (My wife and I are starting to learn what it feels like). Your ministry is bringing the Gospel of Jesus to us Adventists. Have a good evening. Derrell | ||
| Lydell (Lydell) |
Colleen and Derrell, actually I would say there is a difference between "praise" music and "worship" music. "Praise" music is music that speaks about God (as do the majority of hymns), while "worship" music is worded as speaking directly to God. It seems a subtle difference at first. But the difference makes a difference. Think of it this way, would you rather hear your spouse speak about you, or speak their words directly to you? So Derrell, is your wife also in this "former SDA" status with you as I gather from your post above? Maybe the Lord will lead you to open up and share with some of the other "formerSDA/still in the church" folks too. Blessings on you. There IS a wonderful world out here! | ||
| Colleentinker (Colleentinker) |
Thanks, Lydell. You're right; I hadn't thought about it before. Derrell, I heard a tape of Angel Rodriguez from the GC speak in a special session at the NPUC "workers' meeting" in 1998 in which they, too, were discussing Dale's book. He said that without the IJ, the church has no reason to exist. It's so interesting that right now, as the Holy Spirit seems to be effecting an awakening inside Adventism, Jan Paulsen makes his landmark speech in May in which he addresses all of Adventism's distinctives and affirms them. He states that if he were to leave Adventism, he would stand in danger of losing his salvation. He further explained why Adventists must evangelize other Christians: they have an obligation to expose them to the greater truth of Aventism. This speech is printed in the most recent issue of the NAD edition of the Adventist Review. It also appeared earlier in the world edition, and it's available on the Review website. Its title is "The Theological Landscape". It's true; there's a totally wonderful and deeply amazing world out there where you experience freedom and deep unity in the Spirit with others who share your love for Jesus. And it's also true that the farther you get from Adventism, the more dark and twisted you realize it is. We're continuing to pray for you. Colleen | ||
| Derrell (Derrell) |
You are right, Lydell, and I do enjoy both praise, and worship. Yes, my wife and I are in this together and we are sharing this experience with several friends and co-workers. Collen, we may be reffering to the same meeting. I was speaking about Angel Rodriguez, who is now the Ministerial Director for the Greater NY Conference. Please understand that when I refer to misguided people, I harbour no malice toward them. Elder Rodriguez has been a pleasure to work with, and I believe that he, and many others, are honest people who are working with the purest of motives to build and protect their church. Yes, there is an incredible awakening in the SDA circles. I hope God will use me to help further it. It is really suprising how many people just need the catalyst of someone like us to come out in the open with our doubts and questions. Derrell | ||
| Jerry (Jerry) |
I must comment on what has been said about ìan awakening inside Adventism.î Praise God if it turns out to be all we hope it will be. However, we must review some history about this type of occurrence. President Paulsenís speech makes it clear that the core organization will obdurately oppose change. This leads to the type of event that happened to the church in the ìGreat Disappointment of 1844,î the early 1900ís with Kellogg et al, in the mid 1900ís, and in the 1980ís. People wake up, but the church does not change. It merely sheds the members who awaken thereby leaving a hardened core. Be optimistic, but realistic. | ||
| Colleentinker (Colleentinker) |
I understand, Derrell. I interacted with some conference people at various levels when I did reporting for Adventist Today, and there are some for whom I have great respect. Their loyalty to the church, I believe, often bumps uncomfortably against certain growing convictions they have. The cognitive dissonance can be intense and confusing. I do believe that the more people have the courage to state their doubts and convictions, the more others will find the courage to explore their own. Walking into truth is never easy, and it usually isn't fast. What's important is that at each new discovery we be willing to walk through the door God opens at that moment. We can't plan for what we'll do a month in advance; we only must obey NOW. If we choose not to walk through a given open door, God doesn't give up on us, but we do compromise our own growth and integrity until we finally risk whatever it is we must do at that moment. God leads each of us so completely individually. He is relentless in his pursuit of us; he slowly and graciously leads us literally step-by-step until we find ourselves emerging into freedom, in that "valley of love and delight" mentioned in the old Shaker Hymn "Simple Gifts". And yes, Jerry, I do agree that the core of the church is not changing. Not now, anyway. Each of us has to decide if we'll follow Jesus or if we'll follow him if the church does! Another thing I believe is that as God leads us Adventists and formers to himself, many of us have periods during our "discovery phase" in which God truly does give us ministry within the ranks of Adventism. As long as we are saying "Yes" to him, he can glorify himself through us. Ultimately he leads everyone (Adventist or not) to a crisis in which we must decide if we'll risk EVERYTHING to follow him or if we'll rationalize and stay where we are. If we rationalize and stay, we really do effectively end our ministry within. If we cease to trust God with our futures and arrange for our own security, we are no longer living in step with the Spirit, and our witness is compromised. Again, however, God leads everyone completely individually. There is no formula. It's always a matter between each person's heart and God. Praising God for choosing us and leading us inexorably to himself, Colleen | ||
| Derrell (Derrell) |
Hi Jerry, I certainly don't expect to see any fundamental changes in the church doctrines. The awakening that I was referring to is simply what I see as a remarkable increase in people like us rejecting the church's unbiblical doctrines. Colleen, I should have guessed that you were a writer by the eloquence of your posts. After having been out of the church for a while, do you find that the fear that you might be making a terrible mistake starts to go away? My wife doesn't seem to have that fear, but it often keeps me up at night. Looking at the details that we are basing this on, it seems clear that we are doing the right thing, but emotionally I can't help but worry that we might be taking ourselves and our four kids away from "God's chosen people", "the apple of His eye", and into "the Devil's camp". I feel guilty about having that fear, but I can't help it. For 34 years I have been taught, and believed, that walking away from Sister White God's true church, and the 27 Fundamental Doctrines meant siding with the Dragon in the war against the Remnant Church. Thanks for listening, Derrell | ||
| Lee (Lee) |
Wow Derrell! How did you know what I've been thinking. Just a little over a year ago I was still using some of those statements to scare people into staying with the church. And it effectively works on me till I slow down and reason things out with an open Bible. I am enjoying Bible study as never before and I really understand what I'm studying. What a time of refreshing! EGW may have been a plagerist, but she was no dummy. First, convince people you are a prophet. Then tell them your writings are direct from God. Then prophecy that one day people will reject your work, and by so doing will be rejecting the word of God. How clever is that! Almost our own terrorist network...mental terrorism. My wife asked me today, what we will do if we quit being SDA. She knows I have quit mentally and am really wishing we could leave. Her biggest fear is our children. We have realised our dream...they both work for the denomination, and now we are on the way out. They just won't understand. Have any of you been able to maintain friendships in the denomination after you left? If you have are they "normal" or very different. I've been cut off by some even though I still show up every week. There has been increasing talk of discipline because I'm accused of promulgating my different theology. I may end up with no choice about staying or leaving. It's in Gods hands... Lee | ||
| Derrell (Derrell) |
Lee, I certainly feel for you. If I am reading you right, our careers, friends, families, identities... our entire lives are the church. We both still attend, but our hearts are not in it. You ask about maintaining friendships in the denomination? The pastor who married my wife and me left the church a few years ago. He was a good friend, but when he quit the church we, his "friends", no longer felt comfortable being associated with him. He wrote letters pouring his heart out to us, telling us of his joy in the freedom of the pure Gospel; He cried out his hurt, and we turned our backs on him. His best friends, have not only rejected him, but smeared his name with ridiculous rumours and statements that are believed because of where they come from. Now I find myself looking around at my circle of friends and realize. to my horror, that they are the same people who were his circle of friends. (Poetic justice?) We teach that in biblical prophecy a woman refers to a church, and don't forget, "Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned." Derrell  | ||
| Dennis (Dennis) |
Before there was any talk about discipline or disfellowshipping, my wife and I asked for our names to be removed from their membership records. This strategy puts you in the driver's seat--one less abuse to endure. Futhermore, such action clearly reveals your theological convictions to people both inside and outside of Adventism. Our leaving Adventism involved changing work schedules with our business clients. Many non-SDA clients asked why we left Adventism. I particularly remember one Jewish client that asked us why we left Adventism. Normally, this liberal Jewish client did not like talking about religious things. However, being he asked, it gave me an opportunity to tell him that Jesus is now our True Sabbath Rest. Now our business actually provides services to him on the Sabbath. We have had numerous opportunities to share Jesus and our testimonies with our clients due to our having left Adventism. One longtime client now attends church with us regularly. Although Adventism tries to greatly downplay and silence the significance of actually removing your membership, I had the unique opportunity to write a letter to the editor of the Adventist Review that they published. Being well-known in many Adventist circles for over forty years, I was able to declare myself a former Adventist in my letter to the Review. Consequently, the entire world of Adventism could read that I was now a former Adventist. Many readers, for the first time, learned that I was no longer a member despite the local church being extremely quiet about it. Occasionally, we meet Adventists in public places that indicate they haven't seen us in several years. Again, this gives us an opportunity to share Jesus with them. Ironically, some of the these Adventists show up in restaurants on the Sabbath that we frequent. Can you imagine the childen of Israel regularly going to a neighoring heathen country on the Sabbath so that they could be wined and dined? Once we tell them that we are no longer Adventists, some have even commented on their poor example by breaking the Sabbath in our presence. Yesterday marked our second anniversary since officially leaving Adventism. We refer to that date, October 16, 2000, as FREEDOM DAY in our family. Wow! We oftentimes ask ourselves, "How could we ever have believed all those things?" We still maintain personal friendships with some Adventists--although some have forsaken us. We cherish our new Christian friends that God gave us. We serve an awesome God! Dennis J. Fischer | ||
| Lydell (Lydell) |
Alright Dennis! Happy Freedom Day! Yes Derrell, the feelings go away. But, speaking from personal experience, they go away far faster if you allow the Lord to quickly lead you to a church body. You NEED fellowship with other Christians. You need to be somewhere where you can observe constantly that the Lord IS blessing His children....and that they are many. Think of it as a conscience raising exercise. You have, essentially, been living in an SDA cocoon, shut off from God's people. Satan is using these feelings in you effectively because you haven't been in fellowship with the church (I mean, of course, the body of believers in Christ). You are almost entirely ignorant of what God has been doing all these years. You have always viewed other Christians with suspicion, distrust, and a judgmental attitude. Even if you have felt yourself to always have been somewhat open, I can virtually guarantee you that you are going to be shocked to discover how closed you have been. I can say that because we have all been thru it. (And my husband and I were Christians before we became SDA, we STILL went thru that! tisk) Hey, we, and my best friend, walked in on a church board meeting. It had been specially called to take a vote to disfellowship us. We saved them the trouble by telling them we were leaving. Here's the answer to your wife's question about what you will do when you leave SDA: we will enjoy our freedom in Christ. I do understand what she is referring to, since you draw your paycheck from the denomination, but the answer is the same. The Lord has such an awesome joy-filled life waiting for you! Honest!....a view months down the road you are going to be looking back and saying with disgust, "MAN, why did we wait so long to do this!" (My husband has a rather crud analogy for this process: it's like throwing up. The anticipation is agony, but once it's over you feel so good!) | ||
| Lydell (Lydell) |
Derrell and Lee, as I was walking away from the computer just now, I felt ready to pop wanting to share with you some of what we have experienced since leaving the SDA's. We've been through days of being so pressed down with the struggle of life and picking up our Bibles, in need of help, and literally having the first verse we laid eyes on leap off the page in answer to our need....it has happened repeatedly. We've had the awesome experience of knowing, I mean absolutely knowing with every cell of our body, that the Lord was leading us somewhere. It was no longer words on a page, it was real, normal Christian life. We had the amazing experience of walking thru the door of our church for the first time and sensing the awesome presence of God that was so strong you could actually physically feel it. We have known the sweetness of having the church body draw around us lay hands on us, and pray for us when we were going thru a hard time. They prayed for us as if their own lives depended on those prayers. And it wasn't just friends praying for you, it was the sense that the power of God was present as well. When we faced a death in the family, church members literally dropped what they were doing and rushed to the hospital and stayed around us all day. (Hey, remember these were "those people" who went to church on Sunday and so "weren't really christians, you know".) I can't begin to discribe the delight of becoming acquainted with the Holy Spirit after having known the Lord for years. There just aren't enough words to convey what it is like....maybe some of the others can come up with the right way of saying it. To know God....I mean to really KNOW GOD....to have that intimacy with Him and spend time with others who understand exactly what you are saying. To spend time in worship with these people. To spend time in prayer with them and have the sense of the presence of God there. Not just going through the motions of a religious exercise... To go out with folks to do a simple ministry in the name of Jesus, and hear the hearfelt prayers of the folks before you go out, "Lord, let us be your hands to touch them with your love and bring them into your kingdom" instead of planning an "evangelistic series" to "bring them into the sabbath". To have the experience of watching a hard person literally disolve into tears when you say the simple words, "the Lord just wanted you to know He loves you". (not 'hey God says you are going to fry in hell if you don't do this' or 'hey, you have to keep the sabbath', nooo, it was just "God loves you" and you see a heart melt...awesome...awesome beyond all words!) It's having the joy of meeting a fellow Christian from another denomination and NOT having a mental wall immediately rise when you hear they are a member of another church. It's constantly seeing something new in the scriptures that you hadn't noticed before because the SDA filter is no longer in place. And hearing a truth spoken from the pulpit that strikes you as so simple, and so precious, and so obvious and you wonder how in the world you could have overlooked it! And walking into a Christian book store and not feeling like there is this massive shield you have to hold in front of you to protect you from being tainted by the "error" that is in there. It's seeing miraculous healings of bodies and minds. And being in a church service where people joyfully pour their hearts out to God in praise for what he has done for them (on Sunday!) Or just joyfully worship him for no other reason than that they love Him. The joy of really celebrating Easter and Christmas without all the humbugs. And NO MORE LIST of rules and regulations! | ||
| Loneviking (Loneviking) |
A few comments of my own---there is no way that the SDA church is going to become more progressive. If anybody is up to it, check out the latest issue of the Review. There is a story about 1844 and how it changed the face of Protestant history. There is an opinion column about the dangers faced in the progressive movement--especially from hiding the SDA distinctives and using popular music. Jan PAULson is dragging the church back to the right just as fast as he can, and he's finding lots of folks to help him! On the other hand, there are a lot of thriving 'formers' out there. I discovered that a guy I work with and his wife are also formers. He's going to a Bible school run by a local church and the dean of the school is also a former. It almost seems like every time I turn around I'm bumping into another former---of course I am in So-CAL. Darrell and DENNIS---ditoo on what Lydell said. You need to begin attending a local, Bible believing church. The other thing that helped me was defending what I had come to believe. The more I had to study to defend, the more I realized how wrong the SDA position was. That helped to take care of those feelings, and the other thing that helped was just plain time. It takes time to adjust to the world outside the adventist ghetto. As for maintaining friendships, that's pretty tough. I have one good friend left inside who is a committed SDA pastor---albeit a very tolerant one. Other than that, the only ones left are in-laws and they have to tolerate me! Most of your SDA friends will abandon you, but you make wonderful new friends in another church, and life goes on. The other thing that can really help is attending the local FAF Bible study if at all possible. A support group is very helpful when you are coming out. Bill S. | ||
| Clay (Clay) |
I think of the title to an old pop song , "Breaking up is hard to do". Remember that one, or are you to young???? Leaving a denomination that has been part of your life for 40 + years is also hard to do. For months, I had to re-study the New Covenant Gospel, just to be sure I was on the right track. Yes those doubts are strong at first but when you fortify your mind with the wonderful truths the Holy spirit has shown you, the doubts dissappear. Yes, your SDA friends may desert you because they are uncomfortable discussing doctrine with you and are not sure if they can defend themselves against your points. I mentioned briefly to two of my SDA pastor friends whom I served with for 14 years about my new understanding and suggested we get together some time and talk further. It has never happened in 6 months and probably won't. I truly believe many sincere Adventists realize some of the doctrines are very questionable but the "Sabbath" doctrine holds many in the denomination even though they may be extremely liberal in how they keep it. Finding another church home is trully of value in helping one to make the exit from Adventism. We are still visiting many churches to find where we feel God wants us. My concern is that from my point of view, there are many Sun. churches that are also locked into the old covenant as well. They have substituted Sun. for Sat.but they still preach the law and are locked into a form of legalism. If I could find a church that clearly preached the New Covenant gospel, I would probably say I was home, but as yet have not found one. I suppose that is one reason I am feeling very drawn to planting a new church. WE are really making it a matter of prayer to be sure this is what God is calling us to do. I think that to fix one's beliefs in cement is dangerous and hinders the Holy Spirit from leading and showing new truth. After all most of us would not be on this forum if we had placed our doctrinal beliefs in cement. I think a lot of churches are afraid to move and make a change in their doctrinal beliefs for fear they will loose members. That includes Sun churches. I don't want to limit God in what he wants to show me so I try and stay open to the Holy Spirit leading into more truth. WE CAN TRUST THE HOLY SPIRIT TO LEAD US INTO TRUTH. Jesus knows my heart and I have confidence that he will not lead me down the wrong path. Keep looking to Him folks and the journey becomes exciting. Blessings from the North. | ||
| Thomas1 (Thomas1) |
Bro. Clay, From your last several posts it would appear that the Spirit is calling you in a very strong way. And if there are no New Covenant churches in your area, the field should indeed be "ready for the harvest". May He continue to lead you as you strike a new light for Jesus in your area. Blessings and prayers for your strength and courage, from the sunny South. <>< Thomas | ||
| Derrell (Derrell) |
Colleen, I just read your testimony and was so blessed by it. Revelation 12 says that the Devil was overcome by the blood of the lamb, and by the word of their testimony. Testimonies are a powerful thing. Richard's description of growing up in Adventism has many parallels to my own life. It is interesting that Dale is Richard's cousin. Dale's wife is my cousin. Have a good weekend, Derrell | ||
| Clay (Clay) |
Thomas, thank your for that encouragement. Both my wife and I are very passionate about seeking God's leading in this and we are thrilled how He is revealing a direction to us. I could write a long time about the things God has been showing us in the last couple of weeks about the direction He is calling us, but I won't do so at this time. We are very much at peace about it and believe God has given us a direction and will make it even clearer as we step out in faith. I have to share a deep saddness I experienced just today. I was talking to a friend who was in our small group a year ago and is very much a former-SDA now. She keeps in close touch with several women (SDA) whom she has been close to for years. Three of them are in huge marital crisis at present and two have moved out of the home. In all three cases the husbands are very conservative SDA's and they also come from very conservative SDA homes. Two of them said to her last week, they could never go to another church (non-SDA) as they would be ostricized even more than they are now. One is a PK. They basically feel they are not worthy of God's love and care and that there is no hope for them. I know Satan is rejoicing. If he can get them to throw in the towel on Christianity he is delighted. What makes me angry is that the kind of Adventism they have been raised in has poisoned their mind to the possibility of attending another denomination and finding meaning there. Fundamentalism is so harmful in any religion and specifically, in any Christian denomination. I see it most of course in Adventism as that is what I know best. To have the idea so deeply imbedded in ones mind that there is no salvation outside the SDA church is so very anti-Christ, and yet that is what many SDA's believe. My friend really struggles to know how she can help her friends realize there is hope outside of Adventism. Any suggestions? Blessings from the North. | ||
| Lydell (Lydell) |
Clay, it sounds like the first step is in bringing before them the verses about God's love, the forgiveness of sins, and assurance of salvation. Until they are grounded in those things (and perhaps for some or all of them, until they have received Christ), any discussion about being safe elsewhere is impossible and would be meaningless to them. | ||
| Colleentinker (Colleentinker) |
Clay, I agree that the first step with your friends is bringing Bible verses to themóincluding 2 Corinthians 3 where Paul discusses the surpassing glory of the new covenant. Also, pray for them. I just returned from our church's annual women's retreat, and Elizabeth Inrig said a powerful thing in the context of a Q&A session. In response to a question about the foreknowledge of God, she said, among other things, that we were not born with free choice. We were born in sin, spiritually dead, and in that condition we were absolutely unable to choose Jesus. If Jesus had not called us and drawn us to himself, we could not have said yes to him. Only when we say yes and become spiritually alive do we truly have the power to choose freely. We become believers because Jesus pursues us and puts the thirst for himself into our dead hearts. I believe it is a powerful thing when we pray for our unbelieving friendsóas well as our believing ones! Derrell, those excruciating doubts do go away. I remember Greg Taylor posting similar experiences as he was going through his exit. Continuing to believe Jesus' promises and pursuing the scriptures helps, and I have to agree that getting into a fellowship of true Christ-followers also helps. As far as SDA connections after you leaveómost of the close ones change radically. Richard, though, has had an interesting long-term reaction begin to surface. (He works for an SDA institution.) About six months ago, a church employee stopped Richard on the street. (This person knew that Richard had left the church.) He said to Richard, "I just want to tell you how much I respect what you have done. I really admire the fact that you have stayed in the community to work." He went on to say that he had his own questions and was doing his own study. It had never occurred either to Richard or to me that part of God's purpose for Richard's employment might be to show, over an extended period of time, that a former can be gracious, loving, and concerned for Adventists while simultaneously not hiding the fact that he is a "former". God does not always keep us in Adventist employment. In fact, I believe that those of us who have (or had) jobs where we represented the church to people and stood in positions either to teach or defend Adventism pretty much have to leave. But God has a plan for your future. It may be nothing you could imagine, but as you obey him step-by-step, you will find he is leading you directly to what he wants you to do, and you will discover that it is exactly what you would want to do! Also, pray that God will direct you to the church where he wants you to grow in him and in fellowship with others. I praise Jesus for how he chooses us and leads us! Colleen | ||
| Dennis (Dennis) |
Colleen, I heartily agree with your thoughts on God choosing us (election). We, as sinners, do not possess a neutral free will as Adventists and some other Arminians claim. Even before they did anything wrong, God chose Jacob but not Esau. Peter had eternal security but not Judas. After Peter had denied Jesus three times in one night, Jesus spoke differently to Peter than to Judas. He said to him: "Simon, Simon! Indeed, Satan has asked for you, that he may sift you as wheat. But I HAVE PRAYED FOR YOU, THAT YOUR FAITH SHOULD NOT FAIL; and WHEN you have returned to Me, strengthen your brethern" (Luke 22:31,32). Notice carefully what Jesus said. He did not say IF but WHEN. Jesus was confident that Peter would return. His fall would be radical and serious, but not total and final. On the other hand, after Judas betrayed Christ, he went out and committed suicide. After Peter betrayed Christ, he repented and was restored, emerging as a pillar of the early church. What was the difference of the two men? Jesus predicted that both of them would betray him. When he finished speaking with Judas, he said to him, "What you have to do, do quickly." Yes, Jesus spoke differently to Peter. Our preservation is a trinitarian work. God the Father keeps and preserves us. God the Son intercedes for us. God the Holy Spirit indwells and assists us. One of the most important teachings of Jesus on the matter of election or God chosing us is found in the Gospel of John. "Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father" (John 6:65). The word CAN refers to ability; the word MAY refers to permission. In this passage Jesus is not saying, "No one is allowed to come to me..." He is saying, "No one is ABLE to come to me..." The meaning of Jesus' words is clear. No human being can possibly come to Christ unless something happens that makes it possible for him to come. Man does not have the ability in and of himself to come to Christ. God must do something first. Earlier in chapter 6 of John's Gospel Jesus makes a similar statement. He says, "No one can come to Me unles the Father who sent Me draws him" (John 6:44). The key word here is DRAW. Linguistically and lexicographically, the word means "to compel." To compel is a much more forceful concept than to woo. Fallen man is still free to choose what he desires, but because his desires are only wicked he lacks the moral ability to come to Christ. As long as he remains in the flesh, unregenerate, he will never choose Christ. He cannot choose Christ precisely because he cannot act against his own will. He has no desire for Christ. He cannot choose what he does not desire. His fall is great. It is so great that only the effectual grace of God working in his heart can bring him to faith. Dennis J. Fischer |
