| Author | Message | ||
| Colleentinker (Colleentinker) |
Doc, I heard a sermon by Dwight Nelson a few years ago. Dwight is the pastor at Pioneer Memorial Church at Andrews University where the SDA seminary is, by the way. He used this particular sermon to make the case that EGW is the counterpart to John the Baptist. John was the prophet who prepared the way for Jesus' first coming; EGW is the prophet who prepares the world for his second coming. All of this, of course, assumes that they both came with the spirit of Elijah. It amazed me, for sure!! Colleen | ||
| Doc (Doc) |
Thanks for your replies Brad and Colleen. That seems pretty much what this guy was saying. I had just not seen the question addressed anywhere else. His argument was built on some rather doubtful prophetic interpretation. I must say I was pretty amazed too! Doc | ||
| Denisegilmore (Denisegilmore) |
Janice, I'm doing what ought to have been done by the moderators of this forum and the others. I'm calling you on your posts. Keep in mind that I am not your enemy but you are losing your witness with me each and everytime you talk about _______ [edited by webmaster]. Stop! No more about _______ [edited by webmaster] nor even insinuations about him as we all know who you or anyone else is talking about. This is wrong. Handle this situation privately and quit painting someone that most folks do not know as "BAD." That's my thought on this and should be everyone's thought on this. Janice, did you notice that nobody is interested in taking time to respond about your problems with _______ [edited by webmaster]. They are doing this to not join in your ranks of this sort of behavior. So, I will simply say that any insinuation or talk of _______ [edited by webmaster] should be edited out. That's my firm stance on this matter. Sincerely, Denise Gilmore Do NOT gossip. | ||
| Denisegilmore (Denisegilmore) |
One more thing Janice, Take this up with me PRIVATELY...and NOT on this forum. Thanks. Denise Gilmore | ||
| Janice (Janice) |
Denise, I am not going to get into an argument with you here or in private. I have not posted anything about ### since March 27 and have since expressed my desire to get on with my life with no mention of him. It was not necessary of you to take this stance, and I am sure that if he is still lurking over us here that he really got a kick out of your posts today. I am sorry that you choose to act out your grief in this fashion and will continue to pray for you and your situation but please drop it, I have. Check the dates and check your calendar, your posts were not necessary, but I thank you for your concern none the less. Janice | ||
| Brad_2 (Brad_2) |
Doc, Now that I think of it Colleen gave the complete answer to your question. | ||
| Brad_2 (Brad_2) |
Susan, I found one at http://www.gospelcom.net/narramore/concordance.htm | ||
| Brad_2 (Brad_2) |
Susan, Here is a dictionary at http://bible.crosswalk.com/Dictionaries/EastonBibleDictionary/ But these did not help to find what Kaneh Bosm means. I had to print in this topic the other one was not open. Maybe they closed down the topic. O well perhaps its time to move on to another subject anyway. | ||
| Brad_2 (Brad_2) |
If the two witness of Rev.11 are the law "being Moses" and the prophets "being Elijah" spiriually speaking that is. Then this may make more sense in that what is already happening. Right now many churches preach that old covenant laws apply for us now. SDA's for example with Saturday and many for Sunday as a Commandment keeping day, and this has caused the heavens to shut up with no rain as in the "coming of the Lord" according to Hosea 6:3. The 1,260 days "three and a half years" that the two witnesses prophesy in the streets may represent the time that the church has gone through persecution and done the works that Jesus did according to Luke 4:18 and Mark 16 where is says these signs shall follow them that believe. So then the three and a half years simply may represent the church age living like Jesus did for His three and a half years of ministry and being persecuted. Now with the former Adventist and some Pentecostal churches seeing a spiritual rest in Christ as fulfillment of the Sabbath Command and the laws of the Spirit a fulfillment of the old covenant laws we are seeing these two witnesses laying as dead on the streets, and we are no more listing to Moses and Elijah, but to what Jesus says. Remember on the Mount of configuration when Moses , Elijah and Jesus appeared together and the disicples whated to make alters for all three. But then a voice came from heaven and said this is my beloved Son listen to Him. Now we are doing that and moving into the Day of the Lord "1000 years" known as the Kingdom Age. And as the church in general moves on up into the top chamber according to the temple pattern in Ezek. 41:7 | ||
| Colleentinker (Colleentinker) |
Brad, I believe that speculation re: the future is interesting but not necessarily profitable. I do believe that being alert to possible meanings is important, but when we focus on what the Bible's symoblism means we really can get Jesus out-of-focus. The most important thing is to be really in a growing, vital relationship with Jesus. He will reveal the future to us as it unfolds and will protect us from the deception which we already know will be powerful. I really believe that spending time on the possible interpretations and meanings can be counter-productive. As we leave Adventism, it's really normal to begin to reshape our understandings of prophecy because it becomes so clear that we were taughtówellóHERESY. What we most need, though, is to immerse ourselves in studying the gospel and in getting to know Jesus. It's amazing to me how much God opens up insights about the future and about even prophecy as we inductively study the gospels and the epistles. Those are the things we were starved for; those books are the ones we need to devour with the help of the Holy Spirit as we read. Speculation is fun sometimes, but it is only thatóspeculation. The Bible is full of truths that are clear and practical that are just waiting for our attention! Praise God for truly revealing himself to us through the Bible! Colleen | ||
| Brad_2 (Brad_2) |
Colleen, What you wrote is conformation to me of what was in my heart to do, to move on into spiritual growth. Iím a seasonal worker and driver a concrete mixer truck. Iíll be busy at working long and mean hours, like 12-15 hours a day six days a week. I donít have much time left before Iím back to work again. But I have some interesting material from my book that I could copy and paste concerning grow in our lives with a strong focus on Jesus abiding in us. It is based from the seven churches in Revelations and shows how the seven Spirits of God found in Isaiah 11: 2 and Isaiah 4:4 fit perfectly into these seven churches as for help to overcome. Would this interest you. | ||
| Sabra (Sabra) |
Brad, Please e-mail me your studies, thanks, Sabra sabrastone0539@msn.com | ||
| Lydell (Lydell) |
Colleen, I liked your comments about prophecy above. We found in our own lives that as long as we spent our time looking at prophecy we made no growth in understanding of those clear truths of scripture you referred to. It was only when we set aside all our speculations about prophecy, our fascination with the subject, that we began to notice how very little we knew about such things as prayer, the Holy Spirit, walking by faith, the kingdom of God, healing, and on and on. I'm sure all of you could add many subjects to that list pretty easily! It's an amazing thing to me to look back at the time spent in the SDA church and realize that really almost exclusively all the SDA denomination talks about IS prophecy. Every single topic always comes back to prophecy for them! Another difference I have noticed is how we view the news now. Rather than hearing of something, like the war, and our thoughts immediately turning to how it might fit with prophecy, now our first instinct is to think about, and pray for, the protection of the soldiers and that they can be used to evangelize the country. In other words things no longer center on the speculation of prophecy but the concern for people NOW. And that brings up another question I've been thinking about the past couple of days. I want to hear some feedback from the rest of you formers. My husband and I notice that while we were in the denomination, we each had frequent nightmares pretty much along the same lines always: either we were frantically packing to get away, or were in the process of running away from "them", whoever they were. Now that we are free of the denomination....and it's ties of mindset more importantly, because I think that takes some time....the nightmares have stopped. Anyone else have a similar experience? | ||
| Sabra (Sabra) |
I've had a lot of good dreams about the future. I'm always in the midst of catastrophe but I'm never afraid and I always get out--through some open door--really to see some beautiful paradise on the other side. The difference between SDA prophesy study is they have it "all mapped out" and leave NO room for discussion. I find with christians we present our ideas and thoughts and interpretations and build on them together and the Holy Spirit leads such study because we don't have it all mapped out and we are leaning on Him to show us what we need to know. We don't need to know everything and we will not know everything, still, I believe the Bible was written so that we would study and think and stay interested. It's exciting for me to study these things, knowing that God has it all figured out and it helps me to know Him more, His personality if you will, and His ways. I don't know how study of the Word can lead anyone away from Jesus since He is the Word. I recognize that study and obsession are two different things and one could become obsessed, but really, if we are seeking His face He will correct us if we are out of bounds. I'm sorry there isn't more interest in current events here, I think we could learn a lot from eachother. Jesus gave us signs for a reason. | ||
| Brad_2 (Brad_2) |
One thing to keep in mind the book of Revelation is a whole lot more than just trying to figure out end-time stuff. It's subpost to be about the revelation of Jesus Christ. So I'll end this topic with that thought in mind. | ||
| Sabra (Sabra) |
Revelation 1:3 says..."Blessed is the one who reads the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear it AND TAKE TO HEART what is written in it, because the time is near." | ||
| Brad_2 (Brad_2) |
b Wpt help to think that most of us are going to miss out and will be deceived if we cannot come to terms with these two scriptures, What must soon take place in Rev. 1:1 and Matt. 24:34 where Jesus said this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. You would think that 2000 years is an awful long time especially for one generation. You think someone would consider a different view of what things must soon take place. Iím beginning the believe that we will come to a point that we will not grow into the fullness that God desires until we come to terms on this issue. Revelation 1 1. The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. Matthew 24 30. "At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory. 31. And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other. 32. "Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 33. Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it is near, right at the door. 34. I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 35. Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away. Perhaps the great deception for the end-times is to take what may have already happened in the Spirit and keep casting it into the future by looking for physical fulfillment. Iíve heard explanations before on these scriptures that just washed a different view away and it never sat right with me. I made a vow to the Lord almost 30 years ago that I would forsake anything that I thought was true if I became convinced that I was wrong. Iíve met many people who will hang on to what the rest in their circle of friends believe even when they actually believe different. How can they grow if they will not come out and speak what they believe to be truth. | ||
| Sabra (Sabra) |
32. "Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 33. Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it is near, right at the door. 34. I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. I believe that the fig tree is Israel and it is now gathered and in place as of 1948. My understanding is that the last generation began in 1948. | ||
| Steve (Steve) |
One must be careful of placing any time-frame on the second coming. Jesus clearly warned of that. Peter actually foretold that fact that many would mock believers in the end, referring to the "delay" of His coming. A generation, Biblically speaking, was no more than 40 years. To state that the last generation began in 1948 might be stepping into a precarious position (I am aware that may good Christians teach this). John stated we are living in the "last day." We also would have made a mistake, like many believers around the year 1000 who thought that that marked the end of the "last day." If these truths are not understood spiritually FIRST, then we may begin to attach any number of earthly events to try to explain the Biblical statement. By understanding the spiritual truth first, world events can then take their place as secondary to the fact that many in Israel will be saved, as Paul teaches in Romans. Although I haven't read this entire thread, the title reminds me of one of my favorite themes of the SDA church as the fulfillment of the final coming of Elijah (I would usually add some "well thought-out" works the church would need to accomplish before it could truly become Elijah.) If we understand that the Spirit of Elijah was present in John the Baptist (the Spirit of Elijah being the Holy Spirit, that which Elisha received a double-portion), then we can understand that the Spirit of Elijah was to return again. He in fact did on the day of Pentecost. Will He again? Perhaps everytime someone is born again the Spirit of Elijah returns. (Just speculation.) Brad, I like your statement that you are willing to reject what you believed to be truth if you became convinced that you were wrong. I agree with that statement for myself. At times I've struggled to accept something I didn't believe/understand before. At times I've struggled to let go of something I've believed for a long time. Each time, even with mistakes I've made, it has been worth it. Steve | ||
| Brad_2 (Brad_2) |
Steve, What do you think of this. The second coming of Elijah was fulfilled through John the Baptist which was a shadow or type of the Spirit of Jesus returning through Christians that have overcome the things mentioned to the seven churches. Keep in mind that Jesus in a way set us apart from being an "Elijah returned" by saying that the least in the Kingdom is greater than John who was "Elijah" returned. This is what I believe and I have yet to find anyone else who believes the same. It makes me wander I'm I missing it or am I one in a hundred milloin who has it right? And if I'm right then the church has a lot of catching up "rapture" to do before Jesus would manifest Himself through us, when two or three are gathered in His name. |
