| Author | Message | ||
| Chris (Chris) |
I was looking at the Lincoln, NE newspaper this morning and noticed an add inviting people of all faiths to attend a Revelation Seminar being held at the "Better Living Center" at 1800 North 73rd Street Lincoln, NE. 68505. Odd, I've lived in Lincoln, NE for a long time now and have never ever heard of a "Better Living Center". I looked up the address and discovered that the so-called "Better Living Center" is REALLY named the "Northside Seventh-day Adventist Church". I'm familiar with Northside (very historic SDA theologically) and Northside has never identified itself as the "Better Living Center" until now (to the best of my knowledge). As far as I can tell, it has been temproarily renamed for the purpose of luring in unsuspecting people with an interest in escatology from other churches. Really deceptive in my opinion......in fact, it speaks volumes about Adventism and the Amazing Facts organization. Chris | ||
| Terryk (Terryk) |
Are you really surprised? I used to not understand when I went to the SDA church why when they would have something like that they would always rent a school etc. I was so ignorant that if people knew who they were they would not come because they knew better. I did not understand why they never mentioned their having anything to do with SDA church is that not deception? | ||
| Melissa (Melissa) |
Last weekend, a local pastor who usually does a call-in question/answer forum on Saturdays ran a tape of a recent service from his church because he had had surgery and was unable to do the live show. In it, he showed a flier that had come in the mail talking about a Revelation seminar. This particular pastor teaches masters-level Hebrew and Greek, teaching Daniel and Revelation for years. He's even written a text book on those books. He held this brochure up and mentioned that many people in the congregation had gotten them. He pointed out the fact that there was no name to associate any affiliation on it, which he said was the first clue something deceptive was going on. He told the people that this seminar was put on by the SDAs and though they might be nice people personally, their prophecy theology was "all messed up". He gave a brief history of their version of the Mark of the beast and EGW as their authority on many of these things. It was the first time in my life I had heard someone speak to the fliers from the pulpit and we've been getting them periodically for years. They are located on the Missouri side of Kansas City and though we are one metropolitain area, the MO side runs separately from the KS side it seems. Though I haven't gotten any fliers this time, I did notice that the SDA church about a mile from my house has a sign up in its parking lot advertising "prophecy tonight". Now, the church is currently renovating an old school, so some people may not be aware it is a church now, but it is still the first one I've noticed in a SDA owned facility. When I had listened to B's pastor one time talking about the coming seminar, he used a form of guilt to get people to give money for the mail campaign. He said "remember, your money won't do you much good in the bank for very long" as though that would motivate some to give their savings to this "ministry". Maybe it's just my skeptical nature about their theology that jumps on statements like that....(and that goes for any "preacher" that guilts people for money). Isn't the true intent of these seminars to get people into the SDA church? It would seem they must already be at least knowledgeable about Christianity to be motivated by prophecy. I don't think non-Christians really know anything about it. Just seems like a lot of effort to "win" the already converted (if they really believe we are "Christians" as some claim). | ||
| Chris (Chris) |
Yes, Melissa, I do believe the main target is the proselytation of Christians from other denominations. The whole idea behind the Revelation seminar is to show main-stream Christians that they are actually a part of Babylon, the whore of Revelation. To show them that it is time for them to come out of Babylon to join the remnant people. Much time is spent on this theme as well as the supposed fact that if they persist in their current worship practices they will be guilty of accepting the mark of the beast which is bestowed upon those who worship on Sunday. You have to understand that SDAs see this as their special mission in this world. They believe that one day EVERYONE living will have to choose between Saturday and Sunday (the issue will be made so clear that there will be no choice, but to choose), and their salvation hangs on that decision. SDAs believe they are doing the Lord's work in pointing this out to the vast world of ignorant Christians decieved by Babylon and by the Beast. They are saving people by getting this end-time Sabbath message out. One SDA told me, "Without the Sabbath we have no reason to exist." So true, so sad. Chris | ||
| Debbie (Debbie) |
That's also what was happening at the Harvest Crusade last year, for those of you who didn't read the article I had previously written, which is posted under study. There were SDAs outside of the Edison Field in Anaheim, Calif. waiting for the new converts to come out of the stadium (and whoever else would be willing to take their brochures) to give their additional "necessary" information. It's probable they were there this year as well, as Anaheim, Calif. has no city ordances outlawing this sort of activity. Nowhere on the literature does it say they are SDA of course. | ||
| Melissa (Melissa) |
But that seems to be talking out of both sides of the mouth. Yes, you are a Christian, yes Christ is sufficient, HOWEVER ....xxx.... I did read the story about the harvest crusade, and have actually seen one letter in the Review magazine's letters to the editor that one person thought such practices "wrong". But then there was a later article saying this was a good practice, calling people coming out of a church on Sunday merely people "with an interest in God or the Bible"... So, which is it? It's a rhetorical question. (See me shaking my head and rolling my eyes... :-}) | ||
| Colleentinker (Colleentinker) |
The spirit of deception that founded the church is as much as work as it has always been. We had a really interesting lunch recently with a family who left the Johovah's Witnesses about 8 years ago and are now working with Campus Crusade. Although the specific details of their story were different, the big picture of their experience was the same as ours. Their first conscious dissonance was that the unity and fellowship they heard proclaimed in their meetings and literature was missing in real life with their fellow church members. This family even moved, hoping that the dissonance they experienced was local. It was not, needless to say. The feelings they have had, the angry family and friends, the friends who no longer speak to them--in short, all the emotional and social fallout we've experienced, they've experienced. They also went through those paralyzing bouts of doubt that Satan was deceiving them into leaving the truth. One person present at lunch that day said, as they listened to this family's story, "They had the same angel [Ellen had]!" As the man said, "We had different cults, but we've had the same experience!" So true. I think the similarities of experience among Adventism and the other well-known cults masquerading as Christian churches serves to underscore the true source of those groups' theologies. Such deception does not come from God. Praise God for calling us and for teaching us his truth as found in the Bible! Colleen | ||
| Debbie (Debbie) |
Melissa, Did the discussion/article in Adventist Today actually address the Harvest Crusade incident/incidents specifically or in general the practices of deceitful proselytizing? I was just curious, because if any of the articles/letters were centered around the Harvest Crusades, I would love to get my hands on a copy! | ||
| Melissa (Melissa) |
It was the Review and it was a couple of years ago. One article was called Return to the City from 9/23/1999. It was an interview with Doug Batchelor. The question he was asked was "describe for me the kind of people whose attention will be attracted by this series." The following was his response: "While we were in Times Square and were doing some pre-work, Gary Gibbs and I walked by the Times Square church where David Wilkerson [a well-known Pentecostal evangelist] spoke, and 3,000 people came pouring out. They had finished the service. And I thought to myself, Praise the Lord! There are people here who believe in Jesus, who read their Bibles. So I want to reach those people. If they call me a sheep stealer, it's ok. The historic Adventist mission is to call people out of Babylon. So we want not only to get people who are secular New Yorkers, but to give the complete message to folks who may have some Christian leanings, but don't know the full truth." The other editor letter, I can't put my fingers on right now, but it was a Billy Graham crusade, I think, in Florida and the person thought handing literature out outside the facility was a questionable practice. (I can't remember if she said sheep stealing or if that sticks in my head because I just typed it above). Sorry it's not what you're looking for. | ||
| Debbie (Debbie) |
No, actually, it's very helpful. Thanks, Melissa!  | ||
| Madelia (Madelia) |
Yes, Melissa, the SDAs talk out of both sides of their mouths! Last night, as usual, 3ABN was on in our house. I was in the kitchen, cleaning up and overheard Danny Shelton talking about "I believe there are God's people in other churches" yet he then goes on about the 10 Commandments and how other churches will only follow 9 of the Commandments. Of course the one they don't follow is the Sabbath command. He goes on and relates a story about attending a non-SDA church (I believe he was there to sing). The minister of this church commented that Danny believed in following the old covenant law. At the end of the services, Danny proceeded to go to the offering plates and took all the money. The minister was there and said "Wait a minute, what are you doing? You're stealing!" To that, Danny answered, "Oh, stealing is wrong? I thought you didn't believe in the old covenant law, but you do if you believe stealing is wrong. But you don't believe the Sabbath command" Like you, Melissa, I just shake my head and roll my eyes... I'm just getting caught up on the discussions from the past week. What a blessing to read Imunity's message. Praise God!! | ||
| Colleentinker (Colleentinker) |
Oh, Madelia, it's unbelievable--except it's so believable! Imagine scooping up the offering to make a point that was a moot point, anyway. It's just tiring and sad. I am so thankful for the Bible and for Jesus! Colleen | ||
| Kme (Kme) |
Well, folks I've just come across an e-mail from someone about an SDA church starting an online Bible school. I think it comes from the Voice of Prophecy. They told this church not to use Seventh-day Adventist in the name of their Bible school unless they feel strongly about doing so. I guess the Conference here is pushing their churches to start these on-line Bible Schools. If they would just be forthright and honest about what they are doing it wouldn't be so bad. But this "bait and switch" thing that they are doing is nausiating. Ugh! kme | ||
| Lucias (Lucias) |
Aye Carumba! This gets me going. Regarding the seminars, "been there and done that got the T-Shirt" ( more than once ) but as a lay member. Traditionally you rent a facility for the first few nights then halfway thru or so move it back to the church. In our case we covered over the church sign with another one and removed all material that identified the church as SDA from the public areas. I pointed out the deception. The justification was "they won't come if we tell em who we are". Now what is even better is these "Seminars" as such are not conducted by the Adventist church. Very little is actually conducted by the Adventist church. Instead little "independant" yet tightly controlled entities perform these seminars. Its also the independant local congregation that hires them. That way if the $#$@ ever hits the fan the church as a whole can throw the organization and the local officials under the bus as it declares it had "nothing to do with it" or as Sgt Shultz would say "I know nothing! Nothing!" Such planned back doors and exits along with planned deception is not a mark of uprightness. As to what Madelia observed about the fellow "taking the offering" to prove his point. Five bucks says he never did it. Not that I'm suggesting he said he did what he did not actually do. No wait a minute that is what I'm suggesting........... . | ||
| Lydell (Lydell) |
Hm, sounds like you do have the T-shirt Lucas. I remember a certain Revelation Seminar led by the conference evangelist. The first meeting someone asked the question "are you a pastor" and he replied "no". PLEASE! What an outright lie! | ||
| Colleentinker (Colleentinker) |
These experiences bring to mind something an acquaintance told us a couple ofyears ago. Said acquaintance works for an independent Adventist ministry which used to openly proclaim its Adventism. Now its publications carefully refrain from any obvious connection to Adventism, and pictures of buildings with identifying signs have "Adventist" carefully Photo-Shopped so "Adventist" doesn't show. At any rate, this person said that the church has established "levels" of ministries with certain specific agendas. The first level of Adventist ministry is the bridge ministry level. Such ministries never mention Adventism but serve to attract the public by Christian service and felt-need missions which any Christian could support. (The now-defunct Upper Room coffee house which was in Redlands is a great example of that kind of ministry. It did not, especially at first, proclaim its Adventism. People thought of it as non-denominational, yet it had been funded in part by money from the conference.) The second level of ministry offers more personal services, such as stsop-smoking clinics and cooking schools. It pulls people into programs which they feel benefit them but are not overtly religious. The third level begins bringing people to meetings where they learn more about "Christianity" and are enticed to begin attending services or studies. The fourth level is the level where people become memebers and learn of the doctrines more specifically. I may not have explained these levels exactly as the church may explain them, but that is the general idea. When we were in the church, these designations hadn't yet been established--at least, they hadn't been made known. The deception marches on in increasingly creative forms! Colleen | ||
| Pheeki (Pheeki) |
If the SDA church was "all that and a bag of chips" and really were preaching the straight Gospel, they couldn't keep people out! But the Holy Spirit warns people of deception, and who comes to those seminars? Bible students...those are the people intrigued by end time scenarios, etc. They later find out the "peculiar doctrines" presented don't hold up against the Bible. The seminar my in-laws put on attracted several already saved people...they had their bibles out and were really checking the doctrines out (there were about 5 who stuck the whole set of meetings out). Not one of them were compelled to be baptized SDA. Not one! And since they were already saved, they probably thought...even if I wanted to be SDA, I have already been baptized into the body of Christ...what they didn't realize is...that isn't good enough. You must be baptized SDA. Crazy! | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 470 Registered: 11-2002 |
Ah, the frustration of it all! When my mom asked me if I actually was a member of a local Lutheran church and (I couldn't bring myself to lie about the church I attend, although the thought of lying did enert into my moind because just the outcry I expected to get I did get) I told her "yes" she yelled at me in a question/accussing manner, "Are you now taking classes to learn how to persucate the Commandment-Keepers in the last days?" I told her "no and neither is any other Christian" and because if it's too hot in the kitchen I get out, I left. |
