| Author | Message | ||
| Gatororeo7 (Gatororeo7) |
By now you've all heard the news. By now you all know what is likely to happen. By the time you read this it's likely you will have had one conversation about it. And it's very likely that you have an opinion one way or the other. Frankly, I could care less what that opinion is. But I do know this: most everyone on this forum are Americans. We live in the Land of the Free. And 300,000 of our fellow countrymen are sitting on the Iraqi border awaiting orders to make sure it stays that way. None of us want this. But they deserve our support nonetheless. They deserve our prayers. So does our President, who no doubt has had to endure the hardest decision of his life. I'm proud to be an American, for at least I know I'm free. God bless President Bush. God bless our troops. And God bless America. | ||
| Sabra (Sabra) |
AMEN! | ||
| Gene (Gene) |
I couldn't agree more. | ||
| Brad_2 (Brad_2) |
I'm canadian but glad to be a neighbor with the USA. I spent 10 years in Calif. during the 70's though. I only would wish that our country's leader would help the cause for freedom like Pres. Bush is doing. We should have been spending more money on the military thenwe do. It makes me angry when I hear people bad mouthing Bush or the USA. It sounds like they would prefer losing their freedom and live under a cruel dictator. Thank God for people who are willing to lay down their lives so that will can live with liberty and justice. That one of the reasons I support groups like Amnesty International. | ||
| Dennis (Dennis) |
God bless America! The land of the free and the home of the brave. My wife used to live in Baghdad, Iraq with her missionary parents in the mid-1950s for about three and a half years. King Faisal was assassinated about the time they left. King Faisal was greatly loved by his people. Sometimes I tease my wife by saying, "You grew up with Saddam." (smile) Actually, Saddam Hussein grew up in a small town about 100 miles north of Baghdad; furthermore, he is several years older than we are. Let us pray for our troops and the Commander in Chief, President George W. Bush. War is an extension of the authority God gives the state to restrain evil. Dennis J. Fischer | ||
| Colleentinker (Colleentinker) |
One of our school's graduates (about 3 years ago) is currently in the front 100 or so men who will storm Baghdad. He enlisted about 2 years ago, and he's wished he hadn't, but he has to finish out his four-year commitment with the Army. I didn't know him personally, but many of my colleagues did. I've been praying for him this afternoon. It's hard to imagine a 21-year-old facing an almost certain death sentence like that. I join you all in praying for our president, our country, our troops, the innocent civilians in Iraq, and God's people everywhere. I'm thankful God is sovereign and that we know we can trust him to accomplish his will through the authorities he establishes on earth. I'm also proud to be an American! Colleen | ||
| Lydell (Lydell) |
Have a precious story from one of the military wives here. She has 3 or 4 children. Her husband was deployed just last week. And she says she has been very calm about it. It seems that for the past 5 weeks or so she was surprised that just about every time she picked up her Bible, she would see another scripture about the shepherd caring for His sheep. One passage in particular really leaped off the page and grabbed her so completely that she knew she was supposed to memorize it immediately. It was just the next day they got the final word that her husband would, in fact, be deployed. She tells me way back when she put her Christmas decorations away, for some reason she had felt impressed that she needed to keep one of the shepherds and the sheep out on display. She said she'd pretty much brushed that out of her mind until she suddenly began seeing all of these scriptures. God is good, eh. | ||
| Lydell (Lydell) |
And do you know one of the things that has impressed me so much about these military wives is their prayers for their husbands. One of their primary prayers has been, "help him be a bold witness to his fellow soldiers for you." | ||
| Colleentinker (Colleentinker) |
Wow, Lydell--God has put you in a place where he can encourage you and also use you in a time of intense need for support. Isn't it great the way God places people in our lives--and us in the lives of others--when they or we are needed? I really do stand amazed. Colleen | ||
| Charlene_2 (Charlene_2) |
May God bless our troops and our our President in these trying times. However, we have a "Hope"- that many do not have. We have, and ask Him (Christ), for the "peace that passes all understanding." Charlene chargodbee@aol.com | ||
| Denisegilmore (Denisegilmore) |
Charlene, I say a hardy AMEN! to that. Thank you for reminding us all. Peace to you and yours in Christ Jesus. Denise Gilmore | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 163 Registered: 3-2004 |
Reading this post, it reminded me of an e-mail I received from my son after 9/11. I support all our military men and women and pray for all of them every day. They continue to need our prayers as they are still in harms way. My son has wanted to be an Air Force officer since he was 12 years of age. He turned thirty October 7,2001 and had been an AF officer for almost three years at the time. After the tragedies in NYC and at the Pentagon he wrote me the following e-mail which I want to share with you. He is telling me why he is career military. The psychologist he mentions is a man with whom I worked in VA. This man came up to me after we had a memorial service for the WTC and Pentagon victims and their families on Sept 14 at noon by our flag pole. He put his arm around me and asked me how my son was. He knew my son is in the USAF. I told him I was concerned, but that I was just being a Mom. He hugged me. I told my son about it. The man is Iranian and a Muslim. "Mom, Just a quick note to tell you that I love you, and not to worry about Dot(my daughter in law was in the USAF until after she had her baby) and me. Although I know it is only natural that you will.  I appreciate the freedoms that I have in this country, and I fully believe in the ideals of the USA. That's why I have chosen to dedicate my life to their defense, at the risk of my own life. George Patton once said in reference to military service that, "Your job is not to die for your country. You job is to make the other poor dumb bastard die for his." That is my job and I fully intend to carry it out. These creatures that attacked us are a clear threat to our way of life. Their prevision of a peaceful, tolerant religion, can not accept any world view other than theirs. They will not stop their madness until the entire world practices their interpolation of pre 10th century Islam. They need to be eradicated. Please tell the psychologist that talked with you that I said, "thank you." Unlike some Americans I do not view all Muslims as our enemies. I know that most Muslims are as horrified by this attack as I am. I pray every night that God will bring peace to all of our lives." God bless our military men and women and keep them in His hands. Diana | ||
| Cindy Registered user Username: Cindy Post Number: 578 Registered: 7-2000 |
I am interested in others' viewpoints... Are most here in favor of the Iraq war? And relative to this topic, has anyone seen the new movie, "Fahrenheit 9/11"? (My husband and one of our sons saw it yesterday; they thought it was good... Of course, they already had questions about our governments' involvement over there.) cindy | ||
| Loneviking Registered user Username: Loneviking Post Number: 258 Registered: 7-2000 |
I'm in favor of the war. The militant Moslems will never quit trying to kill us. The history of these militants with Israel should be a lesson to us about what we are up against. They are fanatics, they will use any means possible to destroy us and our way of life. These militants started the war on Sep. 11, 2001. We have no choice but to kill every militant that we can find and eradicate every government that gives them safety. My two cents worth.......... Bill | ||
| Melissa Registered user Username: Melissa Post Number: 366 Registered: 7-2003 |
I personally keep thinking of Hitler. Now I know it's not a perfect analogy, but now we hear people question why no one in the world stepped in earlier to do something before he started invading the borders of others and killing jews and their supporters. I am in favor of our efforts in Iraq, but I think that perhaps they shouldn't have tied it to 9/11. I'm not sure Saddam had anything to do with that. But when I see the rejoicing of people at the capture of Saddam and hear the other stories of the mass graves that have been found...I think it has been the right thing, I just hope we are able to get them on their own feet soon and successfully. It's particularly interesting to wake up this morning and hear power was turned over early. As one of the news shows this weekend said, the guy running their government has to know every day his life is at risk. I hope they are able to settle the unrest internally. It kindof sounds like Israel sometimes lately. Contrary to what a lot of anti-Bush people say, I'm not sure there were any easy answers for 9/11...either it's anticipation or the capture of terrorist leaders in another part of the world. If anyone should have known, I think the Clinton administration should have had heard things to pass on to Bush, who had only been in office 9 months. But people like to forget that. I guess if I didn't like Bush to begin with, this would be an easy issue to pick on. People who think there are easy answers that are diplomatically executable, I think, don't understand the militant mentality. I doubt there is anything our country could do to change their perspective of us. My heart is heavy as I heard of people who have been lost. I pray for their families and hope they can find Christ's peace in their grief. I also grieve to hear of another hostage taken. | ||
| Lydell Registered user Username: Lydell Post Number: 618 Registered: 7-2000 |
I fully support our military members. My husband is a (civilian) helicopter flight instructor who teaches members of the Air Force and has taught Army pilots as well. So this comes awfully close to home. We have several friends who are over there now, and more headed that way. I have a very uneasy feeling that this war is headed the way of Vietnam in not accomplishing it's goal. We seem to be off course. What happened to the search for Osama? Interesting tidbit of info for you. There have been Saudi Arabian students being trained at the local military post for years. My husband and his fellow instructors noticed that 2 weeks before 9/11 suddenly all the Saudi's were gone. Bit much to be accepted as a coincidence, isn't it? The Saudi's are not our friends. I can't imagine anything is really going to be accomplished until our government realizes that point as well! And it looks extremely doubtful that our goal can be reached as long as our government continues to spout the "Islam is a peaceful religion" line. It is not a peaceful religion! My husband had asked his last Saudi student about the meaning of the symbols and writing on their country patch on their uniform. The writing was "their is no God but Allah". Then he asked what the sickle represented. The reply, "we cut off your heads if you don't agree." | ||
| Hoytster Registered user Username: Hoytster Post Number: 97 Registered: 9-2003 |
I think that our nation has way, way, way over-reacted to what 11 people did on 9/11. The novelty of that event, and the amazing visuals, have led us to spend something like $200 billion, over 800 American lives, and on the order of 10,000 Iraqi civilian lives... while failing to catch Bin Laden and while turning Iraq from a hostile-but-stable country into a chaotic haven for terrorists of all stripes. My first thought upon hearing about the attack on the World Trade Center was "You fool! This very night your life is being demanded of you. And the things you have prepared, whose will they be?" All of us are here for only a short whlie, and God will take us when He will. My next thought was that we need to do something about the fact that we are hated throughout the world for (1) our unqualified support for Israel and (to a lesser degree) (2) our exporting of our culture, esp. movies featuring sex, drugs and violence. To deal with the Israel problem, I imagined a Marshall Plan for the Palestinians. Imagine what we could have done for them, with the money we've squandered on planes and bombs and $120,000/year contractors in Iraq?! I have no answer to (2), the cultural problem represented by our media. I would not remove the right to create movies free of government interference. I hate the idea that the world forms their opinion of us through their TVs, though, watching that stuff. I remember reading long ago that "Dallas" was extremely popular around the world, and I would wince, thinking that Americans would be typified by that show. Yuck. I think we need to get out of Iraq ASAP, for the sake of all involved, including our children and grandchildren who are going to be paying off the federal deficit all their lives. | ||
| Pheeki Registered user Username: Pheeki Post Number: 334 Registered: 1-2003 |
I don't think we will ever get out of this fight. We didn't start it but it will continue as long as their religion has the mindset of "convert to Islaam or die." They will continue killing us because they see us as Satan. I agree we probably make them even more angry with our love for Isreal. But take comfort, it is all in God's hands and he has a plan. I try not to get involved in politics and to be honest, I voted for Gore. But after 9-11, I realized God had a hand in who was in office as president because we needed someone strong and with resolve. I like Gore but he isn't like Bush. So now, I support Bush...I am a little scared of having a leader in office who is weak and easily pushed around. It seems the Democrats are against the war but seriously...we can't just sit here and do nothing and let the attacks on us escalate until we are praying to Allah 5 times a day? Don't think they wouldn't have kept coming if we hadn't have shown we aren't wimps. As I said, God is in control. Whatever happens is in his plan. This may be a stupid question...but when they are referring to Allah, isn't that the God of Abraham too? Or was Allah a prophet? | ||
| Freeatlast Registered user Username: Freeatlast Post Number: 185 Registered: 5-2002 |
I'm in favor of democracy and freedom for Iraq, but I'm not in favor of such freedom coming at the expense of American soldiers. 225 years ago, American soldiers died for our freedom and democracy. If Iraqis truly want democracy and freedom, they must be willing to bear the cost, which is Iraqis bleeding and dying for it. I think we've done more than enough over there and we need to get our boys home ASAP. It is entirely possible that American soldiers will need to bleed and die on American soil once more in the name of freedom for America, but it is not right for our boys to die for the freedom of another nation. We took Saddam out of the way, the rest should be up to Iraq. They need to pay their own freight for freedom. | ||
| Jeannette Registered user Username: Jeannette Post Number: 26 Registered: 3-2003 |
Like Pheeki, I voted for Gore but now support Bush, I too feel that if we don't deal with the terrorist now in Iraq and Afghanistan, we will be fighting them here in our streets. I fear what the world will be like for my grandchildren, I pray that God in his mercy will come soon and end the misery of this world. Did any of you see how the arab moslems are killing the black moslems in Sudan? total genocide. My son is a history buff and was just pointing out to me that moslems are no worse than the christians during the crusades and colonisation periods. Christians were very ruthless in their pursuit of global christianity. They massacred indigenous people, used cohersion, etc. in the name of christianity. I just don't understand how God is so merciful in the one hand and yet lets this world go on and on. Just MHO Jeannette | ||
| Lydell Registered user Username: Lydell Post Number: 619 Registered: 7-2000 |
No Pheeki, Allah was actually the god/demon of the desert. Mohammed is supposedly his prophet. If you search around a bit on the net you'll find a Christian site or two that gives the historical background, written by former Muslims, of how Islam came about. Can't remember where I found them now. Islam is a real hodgepodge of some very old pagan stuff. Hopefully someone can lay their hands on the facts at hand and fill you in better than I just did. ha By the way, let's not forget that we have women over there as well as men.... | ||
| Esther Registered user Username: Esther Post Number: 20 Registered: 5-2004 |
Three weeks ago I finally got up the nerve to start attending church on sunday What an awesome change, but that's beside the point. Last week there was a missionary there who works in the middle east and in Florida with muslims. He said some very interesting and scary stuff, but told of a mosque that was dedicated a couple months ago in Stockholm, Sweden that the leader stood up and said, "we will claim the world for Islam within 10 years. we have the people to do it, we have the money to do it, we have the plan." That really hit me as I've been coming out of Adventism, I realize the end won't be the "sunday law". Which maked me feel that christians should pay more attention to what Islamics are claiming. This missionary was great. They use only the gospels to prove to Muslims that Jesus was Christ, because that's the only part of the Bible they share. | ||
| Loneviking Registered user Username: Loneviking Post Number: 260 Registered: 7-2000 |
Freeatlast, I guess you've been missing the news---lots of Iraquis are bleeding and dying. Several hundred Iraqui police have died in shootouts and bombings with militants. An Iraqui police colonel was targeted this morning--you can read the story at CNN.com. Hoyster, a Marshall plan for the Palestinans is what was tried. But, the militant Moslems among them (which seem to be a majority) had to start an Intifadah over Sharon visiting the temple mount. They could have built a country for themselves, they were receiving funds from the U.S. and the U.N. But, they blew it in the name of Allah---so I don't feel too sorry for them. BTW, there are Palestinian Arabs who are Israeli citizens and have been citizens for years. They have the same rights and privileges as any Israeli. The Palestinians in the occupied territories do not want peace with Israel and have never renounced their intention to destroy Israel. That is why they are in the mess they are in. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 337 Registered: 12-2003 |
Esther, I'm so happy about your foray to church on Sunday! Quite an amazing experience, isn't it? This whole Muslim phenomenon has been reminding me of Chuck Colson's book (oh my goodness, I can't remember whether it's "The Body" (1992) or "How Then Shall We Live" (1999)!) in which he discusses Islam and what he then considered its potential for becoming a world force with possible antichrist power. I remember reading that and having the sensation that a whole new possible world understanding was opening before me (coming as I was out of a thoroughly Adventist mindset!). Colson discussed the percentage of the world that was then Muslim as well as its forceful tactics and its consistent growth, and made a very persuasive case for Moslems becoming a militant political force to be reckoned with. And here we are! Yes, Lydell, Allah is not the God of Abraham. I remember hearing Jerry Whitehead, who was the director of Muslim relations for the SDA Gen. Conference, telling me in an interview that Allah was the same God we worship, and Moslems just needed to discover Jesus. They could accept Jesus and still be Moslem, because they had the "one god" right, and they already had the food laws, etc. in their culture. I puzzled over that until I heard Elizabeth Inrig say that Allah cannot be the one true God because belief in Allah does not include Jesus. The true God of Abraham is the Trinity revealed in the New Testament and foreshadowed in the Old. Allah excludes Jesus; therefore, he cannot be the same God we worship. I know that this Iraq situation has made me think more than ever about Paul's admonition to pray for the authorities over us. Colleen | ||
| Hoytster Registered user Username: Hoytster Post Number: 98 Registered: 9-2003 |
A few years ago, I heard an Egyptian college professor discussing his research on the sources of terrorism. The singular event that most often produced a terrorist was witnessing the humiliation of the child's father. That child grew up to be a suicide bomber, etc. Which makes me shudder, to think what we have accomplished by allowing those horrible photos from the Iraqi prison to be taken and then be broadcast on TV throughout the world. Literally millions watched the humiliation of those Islamic men. It is much, much worse than the hydra, of Hercules fame. That creature grew two heads when one was cut off. We kill a terrorist, and a dozen or a hundred take his place. We will not win this war through force of arms. We will win it the way Jesus taught us, but turning our cheek. Four private contractors were killed in a humiliating way in Falugia (I don't read the paper, just listen to radio, so I have no clue as to the spelling). We go in with our big army, kill a couple hundred. Did that make it better? No, it became much worse. We need to stop the killing, if we want to stop creating more terrorists. JMHO - Hoytster | ||
| Freeatlast Registered user Username: Freeatlast Post Number: 186 Registered: 5-2002 |
Loneviking, I understand that SOME Iraqis are bleeding and dying and certainly that is part of the cost of their freedom. My objection is that our soldiers are taking the LEAD role in someone else's fight for freedom. I would be much more inclined to support an ancillary role for our troops in concert with troops of other free nations, but I'm tired of our men being on the point paying the cost of someone else's freedom. These guys have been fighting each other since Abraham and Sarah tossed Hagar and Ishmael out of the tent, they ain't about to stop because the mighty US armed forces are there. In fact, it seems to me that our presence is making things worse. I'm no expert in foreign affairs, particularly middle east affairs, but I have this burning in my gut that says "get out and get out NOW". I feel that Iraqis, Afghans, Bosnians, Cubans, etc. must ultimately lay down their own lives in order to free themselves. If a majority of them want freedom, then they will obtain it by the blood and lives of their own sons, fathers, and brothers. I appreciate your thoughts Loneviking, and I don't entirely disagree with you. This is a sticky wicket over there and now that we're there it is going to be really hard to get our men home safely. Like my Grandfather used to tell me, "don't start a fight but if you find yourself in a fight, fight to win." We have to proceed with EXTREME caution, and even then we will lose many more American boys before this is "over". I guess I'm expressing that I'm just really tired of our men coming home in body bags for the freedom of other nations. Our men already paid the cost of our own freedom in the American Revolution. | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 170 Registered: 3-2004 |
I think that no matter what we, as Americans, do, it will not satisfy the fanatics. They want one thing, as I see it, and that is to get rid of Americans. And as some one else wrote, there have been problems in the Middle East since Abraham sent Hagar and Ishmael away. No matter what my personal thoughts or opinions, I do support our military in Iraq and Afghanistan. They are there doing the fighting, even though the reins have been turned over to the Iraqis. And it comes close to home, as every so often my son is sent over there, some where. He does not tell me where, or as he has told me in jest, "Mom I would have to kill you". But other mother's and father's sons and daughters are over there. Husbands are there. Brother's and sister's are there. So, I do pray for all our military every day. I, too, do not like to see some ones daughter, son, father, brother, mother come home in a body bag. But they are there and need our support and prayers. One thing that puzzles me and that is that the news does not show the good things our people are doing. I heard on Sean Hannity about a military doctor who had American specialists go to Iraq to train the Iraqi doctors, because they had not had any outside training with Saddam in power. Another thing I heard was about 9 men who had their hands cut off under Saddam. An Amercian journalist got a hold of the video tape of the the hand cutting being done. With the Americans in Iraq, he looked up all the men this happened to and arranged medical care here in the USA, in Texas, if I remember correctly. These men met with Pres Bush at the White House and it was never carried by the news. Schools are being built by our military, hospitals are being rebuilt and all we hear about is the fighting. Our military are doing more than fighting. Our military care about the children, just like the pilot who dropped chocolate bars over Berlin after WW2. I could go on and on, but I will stop right now. I do support our military and our president. He is the one who got us into this and I pray God will show him how to get us out. Our God is an AWESOME GOD. Diana | ||
| Melissa Registered user Username: Melissa Post Number: 368 Registered: 7-2003 |
I think what you're describing, Diana, is our media's prejudice against Bush, the war, and if they show positive things, then they "might" be conceived of as supporting it. I wonder if Clinton were still in office and the same things were happening if we would see those things?? Our mainstream media is extremely biased and selective on what they report. I watch some of the talking heads on public tv and other spots sometimes and you get a completely different story, especially if they're interviewing someone with first hand knowledge. Last night, I was watching Charlie Rose who was interviewing a British Chief Counsel and a Clinton advisor and both of them talked about the good the effort has made for the people and that the problem now is getting Iraq self-governing and the extremists to die down. They liked the current leader over there and said he has the respect of a lot of people within the country, of course, we only hear about the extremists. It's a very complex situation that I don't think any of us are going to fully understand in a 5 minute news segment piece. We underestimate the power of the Islamic influence and whether there are peaceful islamics or not, they are anti-Christian. That puts us in a lose-lose situation no matter how you slice it. They talk about Israel and the support there, but if I boiled down the rhetoric I've heard from the real problem, it's that our nation is perceived as "Christian". If we were muslim, it wouldn't matter what we did in some respects. Look at other large Islamic nations and the blanket support they tend to get from other Islamic nations regardless of what they do. As I was listening last night, I was having glimpses of things Revelation talks about and could see more and more how parallel some of the circumstances seem. Of course, times and seasons are not in our hands, but it is interesting to contemplate...especially since it's Iraq and "Babylon". We have to trust our leaders and pray for their wisdom and guidance. |
