| Author | Message | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 1171 Registered: 12-2003 |
Yes, Melissa, I know what you mean. And Magpie, I agree that we need to pray for the people surviving the tsunami. I also agree that we will see more and more unusual occurrances. Praise God that He is sovereign over all! Colleen | ||
| Dane Registered user Username: Dane Post Number: 88 Registered: 4-2004 |
This seemed an appropriate place to post this. As you may recall, several weeks ago I asked for prayer for my mother-in-law who was diagnosed with lung cancer. She is now out of the hospital and living with her son (9 miles from us). She is terminal, probably 6 months. But there is a small praise here. We loaned her the last issue of Proclaimation as it has an article by someone she used to know. She read the issue c to c and wants all the back issues. She says it's very "interesting". Something(Someone) touched her heart we think. I emailed Dale and he is sending as many back issues as he can find. If she can read and think of what other formers (but still Christians) have written it may cause her to rethink things. Dane | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 893 Registered: 3-2004 |
Dane, Your MIL is still in my prayers. Praise God she is reading Proclamation. The tsunami victims/families, survivors are on my prayer list also. I am not afraid any more as I hear about these tragedies. I just know that God is still in charge and His will, will be done. He is awesome. Diana | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 1309 Registered: 11-2002 |
Wow, Dane, on both issues concerning you m-i-l. Now, I have another prayer request. This one is different from most of my issues but I honestly believe only those who frequent this board will understand. I have to deal with extreme verbal abuse from those closest to me because I "have turned my back on the truth" that any mention of anything having to do with anything religious, about the SDA church (from the SDA's), about the Lutheran church (again from the SDA's in my life), and the unkind things said to me by these SDA's because I'm now apparently taking classes in how to pursucute the commandment keepers in the last days, that when the SDA's approach me about anything having to do with religious issues, church, Bible, anything having to do with religion in any way, I am gettng anxiety attacks. Today the minister where I attend services (Lutheran) stopped by my house with a message for me from one of the other people from the church. I actually went into a fullblown anxiety attack about what if my SDA kinfold come by and ask who that man is and I am put on the spot to either lie or say the truth and I knew if I would tell the truth then life would be extremely miserable for me for a long time from those kin. As long as I wasn't an actual member of the Lutheran church I didn't get this extreme verbal abuse. Then one day I was asked if I'm a member. As soon as I answered "yes" it's just gone downhill from there. I hide my Lutheran magazines and Bible studies as well as other Christian literature and books just so I can avoid the harrassment. I break out shaking and sweating and then I wither. I never had thought I'd be a victum of child abuse after turning 50 but I am and I don't know how to deal with it. Please, pray about this. Also, after you have prayed concernng this if God gives you an insight to share with me then please do so. Thank-you. | ||
| Bob Registered user Username: Bob Post Number: 19 Registered: 7-2000 |
Susan, I don't know anything about the particular circumstances that made you think it was necessary to submit to this verbal and psychological abuse from your family members. However, I will offer my opinion about what you should do about it. Other people treat us the way we have taught them - and permitted them - to treat us. When we begin to make it decisively clear to them that their behavior MUST change or our relationship may be severely limited in the future, it often "pulls their fangs." God has not given you the spirit of fear, but of power, and love, and a sound mind. Stand up to these evil people (and that is what they are - EVIL), and bravely inform them that there will be negative consequences if they don't stop this outrageous behavior toward you! Keep in mind, however, that if you spell out consequences, make sure you follow through if they continue the unacceptable behavior. Others on this forum may disagree with me about this, but I see no incompatibility between being a follower of Jesus, and assertively standing up to evil, even when it is being practiced by family members. (Do I sound too much like Dr. Laura?) Bob | ||
| Melissa Registered user Username: Melissa Post Number: 664 Registered: 7-2003 |
I haven't listened to Dr. Laura, but it sounds like Dr. Phil. I also have had to take stands that people will not degrade me in that form in my own home. I can't control what they do outside my home, but in my home, if they're going to be a guest, there are certain rules that are expected...and respect for me and my faith is one of them. I haven't yet had to ask someone to leave, but I am prepared to. Susan, I agree with Bob. You are a valuable human being, and there is nothing wrong with expecting to be treated with some degree of dignity and respect. If your family can't comply with such a simple request, perhaps they need to have some distance in your life. | ||
| Pheeki Registered user Username: Pheeki Post Number: 446 Registered: 1-2003 |
Susan, it reminds me of when the SDA pastor came over unannounced and uninvited to try to pull my husband, not me...they consider me lost and he was an asset to them slavishly playing their music every Sabbath...anyway...I was relaxing, enjoying myself watching cooking shows as I usually do on Saturday afternoons and there he is at my back sliding glass door! Well, I flipped out that I had been caught on Sabbath with the TV on! I ran over to it and turned it off and told the kids to get theirs off too. I feared those of the circumcision just as I always had and I had thought I was over it! Anyway he left and I felt terrible that I had been so weak in front of my children instead of exercising my Believer's freedom to watch TV on the Sabbath. The old fears seem to raise their ugly heads from time to time, just when you think you have conquered them! | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 1204 Registered: 12-2003 |
You're right, Pheeki--those fears take a long time to die down. Susan, I agree with Bob and Melissa. It's really OK to have consequences, even for older relatives, if they do not respect you, your rules, and your home. No one should feel free to enter your home and trample on you or those there with you. Ask God to give you wisdom and courage and the confidence of His Spirit to allay your fear and to stand firm for truth! Colleen | ||
| Jerry Registered user Username: Jerry Post Number: 432 Registered: 6-2002 |
Hi everyone. Good discussion about how the Adventist culture can interfere with home life. I am now on my way to another state and have stopped at my cousin's house. She is a lawyer who was interested in my experience because she has a case involving, what I believe to be, "Historical Adventists". She may e-mail Colleen or Richard if she has questions about how "things work with SDAs". Her initials are P. E. and will correctly identify my full name. | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 907 Registered: 3-2004 |
Susan_2,The Bible says to honor your parents, but not let them run you down. When my Mom started talking about things I did not want to hear, she just did not talk to me for 2 weeks. Of course, most of the time I lived on the East Coast. If I were you, I would talk to God about her and tell God that I am going to tell her the following: Mom, I love you dearly. We do not believe the same when it comes to religion, so please do not talk to me about it. If you do I will have to limit the time I spend with you. I cannot take you to church, but I will try to see that some one comes to get you on Sat AM. And I would make good with my threat about spending less time with her and taking her to SS on Sat am. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO STAND THERE AND TAKE WHAT SHE GIVES OUT. Let her know it is unacceptable to you and stick by what you say you will do. I did that with my Mom and she quit saying unacceptable things to me. She wanted me to visit her when I made it to California, so she quit mentioning the things I found unacceptable. I will call you friend. We have an awesome God. Diana | ||
| Praisegod Registered user Username: Praisegod Post Number: 194 Registered: 3-2004 |
Susan, I'm in total agreement with what's being suggested. After you pray about it, if you don't think you will be able to quietly say your piece without the other person yelling, walking out etc, you may want to put it in writing. I would also suggest bringing the subject up when things are smooth rather than waiting until there is another crisis situation. In some way you may feel that you're being held hostage. For instance, you would be kept from visiting other family members if you don't comply. I would suggest if you pray about it, you will know exactly how to move forward without fear. Tough love requires a level of toughness on your part. And perseverance as initially itís highly doubtful that youíll be believed. It may take some rough days for them to understand that you will no longer stand for their rude, emotionally abusive behavior. Prepare for them to call your bluff. God's in control and it will all work out. Weíre all praying for you. Praise God... | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 1320 Registered: 11-2002 |
Thank-you for the prayers and suggestions. It's really bazaar. As long as I could hoestly answer "no" to the question, "Are you a member of the Lutheran church?" I got very little drama about it. Then after I'd been attending this particular church for several years I requesed membership (I'm not one to jump into committments fastly. It can talk years to make a committment.) Then I was again asked if I'm a member and after several years I gave the answer "yes". Immediatelly I was yelled at in a statement/question which was, "So are you now taking classes on how to persucuate the commandment keepers in the last days?" I was totally appalled and completely disguested at that. I said no, that there is no Christian on the face of the earth that has ever heard of such a thing except for the SDA's. Since that time the situtation has just deterierated. I have requested weekly counseling and prayer with a Stephen Minister. Are any of you others acquaited with the Stephen Ministry program? I think for now that will be a good place to start. And, it's those sorts of statements that cause me to believe the whacky beliefs of the SDA church are so imbedded into the psychs of the SDA people that's what makes the SDA church a cult every bit as much as any other cult. My own loved ones, who otherwise are very intelligent people cannot see the total brainwashing of this nonsense. There is nothing Bibical to lead to that outburst. It is only parroting the EGW/SDA fear line of being scared of Christians. And, to you SDA leaders who moniter this site I hope you have a board meetng sometime and address the issue of the fear your church instils into its lay members of Christians. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 1208 Registered: 12-2003 |
Susan, I understand your frustration. I absolutely agree with Diana and PraiseGod above. You need to set boundaries and enforce them, and you really do need to limit your time with her unless she behaves respectfully. You can continue to respect her position for herself, but you do not need to listen to her insist you must live by it. Ask God to give you His wisdom and courage. I'm praying for you. Colleen | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 1322 Registered: 11-2002 |
Pheeki, I read your entries on this forum and so often your comments paraell my situtation so closely. Sometimes it's really uncanny. And, yes, I fully understand you rushing to turn off your t.v., IN YOUR OWN HOME YET! That's the cultish part of it-the total control of our freewills that the SDA denomination wants to take away. One Friday evening at chapel while attending Monterey Bay Academy they were going to have communion service. First the preacher man got up front and went into a long song and dance about how no one should take part of communion if his or her heart was really not into it. Then he said anyone who wanted to skip communion could go down to the beach until the end of the worship service so anyone who wanted to skip communion could go to the beach right then. Out of around 400 students only me and my best friend got up and left to the beach. It was a beautiful evening. No sooner had we started on our walk along the beach but THREE MBA adults plus the student pastor (that makes four people) acosted us to tell us how we were turning our backs on God and that we were being self-centered and extremely selfish for wanting to spend an hour at the beach instead of taking part in communion. It was one of the few horrible experiences I had at MBA because I really did guenenly like it there and mostly had a good time. However, I learned from that experience to distrust the preachers there. And, the guilt they tried to instill in me and my friend was overwhelming. I also learned to just follow the dictates to keep life easy on me and then I'd pray to God that HE knew my heart and intention but I just wanted life to have the least hassles as possible. That is the reason we cringe when caught by the SDA loved ones doing things they don't approve of-because we know the hassle that will result from it. It is not that I (we) honestly believe I (we) are doing anything wrong it is trying to avoid the hassle of the SDA's reaction that we get. That, to me, is what is so cultic, the emotional control. | ||
| Spokenfor Registered user Username: Spokenfor Post Number: 57 Registered: 12-2003 |
Hi Susan, I went through a very similar experience to what you describe above. After I left adventism my father began making sarcastic comments about my beliefs. I'll spare you the whole story here but one day he just lost it and became extremely verbally abusive. I was shaking when I got off the phone. I felt like I was a little girl again who had done something very bad and got in trouble. It was a horrible experience. I so understand how you feel. The Lord impressed me to write him a letter, calmly telling him that if he couldn't respect my beliefs and speak appropriately to me then I would not be able to talk to him. I was very firm and clear that I would not accept any verbal abuse or sarcasm. Somehow, him having to read it in print seemed to sink in and he has not spoken an angry word to me since (this all happened about 9 months ago). Now if you knew my father you'd also know that this is amazing as he tends to be rather volatile when he disagrees with someone. You do not have to accept abuse, verbal or otherwise, from anyone. You are a child of God. No one has the right to treat you badly and once they realize that you won't accept it they will stop. If it happens, you can leave, ask them to leave, hang up the phone, whatever you need to do to stop them in their tracks. Just because they are relatives doesn't give them a right to treat you disrespectfully. One more thought. Before I even got up the courage to tell my parents about our exodus from sdaism I was terrified of actually doing it. I would shake and feel sick to my stomach at the very thought of being 'found out'. Colleen suggested that the terror I was experiencing was related to the spirit of fear that is attached to adventism. When I started praying for the spirit of Christ to fill my mind and heart, replacing that spirit of fear the terror went away. I will pray this for you also Susan. | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 1324 Registered: 11-2002 |
Spokenfor, Tht spirit of fear that you mentioned is very strong in Adventsm. Today, for the first time in several months I went to the Voluntary Adventist Forum to read some of the entries. A lot of the folks on there would be referred to as Historical SDA's. There is one person whose entries sound more like an ex-SDA as he is the only one that actually comes back with Bible lessons and Bible to back up what he says, which is generally opposite to all the EGW spouted on that forum. Anyway, just today I read on there where someone wrote that those people (I think that would refer to us on here.) who once had the "truth" of the "spirit of prophecy" and have truned their backs on that truth are truning their backs on ever being admitted into the New Jeruselum. It is a very powerful and scary thing for a parent of adult children to think that the children they love so much and have invested so much time, effort and money in to keep them within the bounds of Adventism has been "thrown away". And I put the words "thrown away" in quotes because I have been accused of having thrown away all the truth I was raised to know. I can say things like, "That is not true. I was raised to embrase Jesus as my Lord and Saviour. I have not discarded that. In fact, I am now proclaiming that more than I ever have". Yet, these words of mine are met with hostility and fear. I think it goes back to having a denomination as the saviour. Several years ago I read a statement by the head dude of the SDA church where said he would stake his salvation on being a member of the Adventist church. And, I think with many SDA's that is just where it is, only most won't come out and say so. | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 909 Registered: 3-2004 |
Their salvation revolves around keeping the Sabbath and all the other "stuff" such as vegetarianism, state of the dead, tithe paying, etc. It has nothing to do with Jesus and what He did for us and that we do not have to do anything but accept what Jesus did. It appears they are so fearful of losing heaven they have never met the person that can take them there. They think they have a work to do to get to heaven and do not know the only thing they have to do is accept Jesus Christ. So they go around Jesus and do all these things as recommended by EGW, but it will not get them to Jesus Christ and what He wants for each of us. That is sad and why we are all praying for them. God is in charge and He is AWESOME. Diana | ||
| Spokenfor Registered user Username: Spokenfor Post Number: 58 Registered: 12-2003 |
Susan and Diana, I absolutely agree with what you say -- it's true that even though they won't openly admit it, but in fact deny it, they are wholely dependent on their church affiliation for salvation. That is an incredible statement that you posted from someone at the 'top' - that he would stake his salvation on being a member of the sda denomination! The president of the conference where we are told some friends of ours that we 'needed to be warned we were leaving the truth'. Those terror invoking statments from EGW are completely cultic. Controlling another person through fear is of darkness. For a long time I was afraid to leave until I clearly realized that Jesus came to bring light to all men and where there is light, there is NO darkness. At that point the veil was removed from my mind and I knew that those fears were not from the Spirit of Christ. I was finally able to let them go of them for good. Praise God! Now I pray for my loved ones to be released also.... And yes, I can understand how parents must be afraid for their children who have left that 'truth' that they've so carefully raised them in. They pray and wait for God to bring their lost loved ones back. It is terribly sad and I am grateful for all of those on this forum who are praying for them to be released from the bondage of deception and fear and know Jesus alone as their Savior. I join in that prayer every Friday and Saturday. | ||
| Melissa Registered user Username: Melissa Post Number: 667 Registered: 7-2003 |
I had mentioned that statement by the leader to B, and even pointed him to the web address where he could read the article for himself. Somehow, he decided to read a former's site I had read (Mark Martin's, I think, but he never would say). His comment about the head leader's article was "that's just one person", but he got even more angry when he found out I had been directed to that article by someone else. He thought I had been reading things regularly from his religion (and for a while I did, but eventually quit). So, the bigger deal was that someone else directed me to that story rather than the story itself. I asked him if the head leader of his religion doesn't know what the gospel is, who in his church could be expected to...of course, questions like that that would require a negative answer don't get any response at all. B will also not acknowledge his salvation is rooted in his church, but at the same time, he would not go to another church for any reason and the "fear" he has is obvious, though he would never identify it as such. It's so sad, really. | ||
| Spokenfor Registered user Username: Spokenfor Post Number: 59 Registered: 12-2003 |
Melissa, can you give me a link for the article you're referring to above? Thanks. Our relatives tried to 'blame' our leaving the church on being influenced by sources that were anti-adventist. They could not accept that we came to the position we did by studying the Bible. Someone had to have 'tricked' us into it. They have a terrible fear of being led astray and out of the 'truth' by people or reading material from the outside. Many sda's that I know will not read any religious material that isn't an sda publication. And if you try to show them error in their own publications they excuse it away... it's very frustrating and very, very sad. |
