| Author | Message | ||
| Ric_b Registered user Username: Ric_b Post Number: 165 Registered: 7-2004 |
I have often pondered which had more impact on Communion attendance at SDA churches, feeling awkward about footwashing or feeling unworthy of taking Communion. I grew up Lutheran with Communion services every other week. My experience had always been more people attended Communion. Imagine my surprise after becoming SDA. I had thought that with Communion only once per quarter the service would be packed! I personally think that the "feeling unworthy" has an even bigger impact than the footwashing. There really is something about how SDAs approach Communion that leaves people (or at least left me) feeling unworthy of partaking. and more importantly the response to that feeling of unworthiness. Now if I am struck be feelings of unworthiness I am simultaneously filled with joy and tears that He has accepted me anyhow. Before it was more just a lingering guilt over participating in Communion when I wasn't really "good enough." | ||
| Dd Registered user Username: Dd Post Number: 298 Registered: 7-2004 |
During the last several years of my spiritual journey, before I completely seperated from my SDA beliefs, I decided that the dislike I felt for Communion had to do with the footwashing. When I realized that Adventism was the only religion I knew of that did the footwashing it began to dawn on me that it was a ritual that was dark and controlling. Even now thinking about it gives me creepy feelings. The first time I experienced Communion at another church is the first time I experienced the beauty of the ritual. Our friends invited us to their Good Friday service the Friday night of Easter weekend. It was the most sacred service I had ever been to. I remember going down to the front of the sanctuary to get my cup and bread where the table was set up under the cross. WOW! The beauty of what I was able to partake of because of Jesus, made the whole concept of "take this in remembrance of Me" very real and powerful. Isn't it remarkable how He leads us from the dark, ugliness of false beliefs into the light of His love and acceptance? GIVE ME JESUS! | ||
| Loneviking Registered user Username: Loneviking Post Number: 305 Registered: 7-2000 |
I was at an SDA church, it could have been Centerville or Kettering, Ohio---but they did something interesting. They announced that those who wished to participate in the foot washing could do so at a certain location. Those who chose not too could dismiss to refreshment tables at the back. After the footwashing, then everybody gathered again in the sanctuary for the Lords table. I was utterly shocked at how casual this church was about the footwashing. As for relatives, well, my wife is still SDA. Our little son wants very badly to go across the street to church with his mom. Mom needs somebody to help corral him, especially when she's teaching sabbath school. (sigh..) O.K., so once in a while I'm back (with clenched teeth) in an SDA church on saturday morning. Does it ever end? | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 1224 Registered: 12-2003 |
Loneviking, I am sorry. With prayers for you and your family, Colleen | ||
| Raven Registered user Username: Raven Post Number: 159 Registered: 7-2004 |
Loneviking, that sounds like something Kettering would do. We live in that area, and were members of Kettering for many years (though it was during the time we rarely attended). They tend to be very liberal for an SDA church. | ||
| Melissa Registered user Username: Melissa Post Number: 676 Registered: 7-2003 |
I guess I saw the Biblical story of footwashing as more an example of how we live daily, not another ritual. Helping my 15 year old get her diaper on is more an example of that to me than sitting in a church, with people who have comparatively clean feet to what Jesus washed. I guess I think of the logistics too...do women not wear nylons? The whole process sounds unsettling, and would not be something I would want to do. But I think of that story when I do the less pleasant (and really necessary) chores associated with a child who can't manager her own hygiene and personal needs. Have you ever brushed the teeth of a 15 year old ... who nearly looks you in the eye? To me, that was what Jesus was demonstrating, especially since it is only mentioned one time in all of the communion stories...the book of john. Not elsewhere in the gospels, and not in 1 Corinthians when it is described again. Besides the unappealing thought of washing someone's feet (who does not need it), it seems to me to miss the point of what Jesus was teaching. I have a friend who worked in nursing homes as an RN. He was talking one time about what he had to do to clean some of the older people up who had soiled their beds and no one else had found it or taken care of it on another shift. THAT is following Christ's example. I just can't get my mind around the logic of a formal ceremony. And the Grace Brethern fellowship also does footwashing with their communion. I am not very familiar with them, but my daughter's foster father was a GB pastor prior to moving here from California. We don't have that group here, so I'm not sure how prolific they are or exactly where they are located. Just know his background and that is the major distinction he reported. | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 1337 Registered: 11-2002 |
Ric-B. I was raised SDA and now old my membership at a local Lutheran church. Youare correct, Communion Sundays are way more packed than the non-Communion Sundays. | ||
| Chris Registered user Username: Chris Post Number: 547 Registered: 7-2003 |
Melissa, I think you are correct that Jesus was giving us an example for how we are to live our daily lives in service and humilty. It does not appear to me that foot washing was being instituted as a ceremony. It is interesting that the Gospel of John is the only gospel to record this inccident and John does not tie it to communion (in fact John is the only Gospel that does not describe the sharing of the cup and the bread). The breaking of bread and drinking from the cup as the sign of the New Covenant comes from the synoptic gospels, Matthew, Mark, & Luke, none of which mention foot washing. If the gospel writers had been trying to teach that footwashing is a necessary part of the sacrement of communion, then they sure went about it in a strange way. Chris | ||
| Pheeki Registered user Username: Pheeki Post Number: 449 Registered: 1-2003 |
Here's my little theory on footwashing. SDA's spend so much time keeping people at arm's length (you know, they might find out I am not a perfect SDA) that when it is time to humble yourself and do something intimate to the very person you are trying to keep out of your intimate life...no one wants to do it). Plus there is the immense pride most SDA have..."people with all the truth", etc...it might be very hard to stoop down and wash a person's feet, especially if they aren't a family member. As far as communion...I never wanted to take it because I thought you had to be perfect and right with God prior to taking it and I never was in my opinion, so I thought it might be blasphemy. I remember sermons about the seriousness of communion, etc. It scared me away from it, like I might be struck dead if I partook. | ||
| Chris Registered user Username: Chris Post Number: 548 Registered: 7-2003 |
Pheeki said: "As far as communion...I never wanted to take it because I thought you had to be perfect and right with God prior to taking it and I never was in my opinion, so I thought it might be blasphemy. I remember sermons about the seriousness of communion, etc. It scared me away from it, like I might be struck dead if I partook." Dittos, Pheeki. I couldn't have said it better. | ||
| Chris Registered user Username: Chris Post Number: 549 Registered: 7-2003 |
Melissa, to satisfy your curiosity on the logistics of foot washing: When I was growing up foot washing was always segregated (men and women were in seperate rooms). More progressive churches began having "family rooms" where married couples could go to wash each others feet. These "family rooms" have become more and more open to the point that even dating couples wash each other's feet in some of the college churches. There are chairs setup up in back to back rows with enough room left for kneeling before the chair. There are helpers to hand you a towel and a small basin with a dipper of water in the bottom of it. One person washes then goes back to get fresh water (dump out the sock lent) while the other person gets their shoes back on. And yes, the women wear hose, but since the advent of mixed rooms, they don't remove them. You just wash right through the hose. Admittedly, the whole thing is a little odd. It served a functional purpose in Jesus' time and His act taught an eternal priciple. But now it's become a strange ritual and the original meaning has largely been lost by SDAs. Chris | ||
| Raven Registered user Username: Raven Post Number: 160 Registered: 7-2004 |
I never could see the point of foot-washing in today's culture and have never been comfortable participating in it. That was just one more reason for communion Sabbath to be uncomfortable and made one not interested in even being there for it. I always felt guilty that I should want to participate in the foot washing, and it seemed since that was a stumbling block for me, maybe that in itself made me unworthy to participate in communion! One of my criteria for a new church is one that does NOT do footwashing. That one should be easy, since most don't! | ||
| Bob Registered user Username: Bob Post Number: 28 Registered: 7-2000 |
The question of whether Jesus intended foot-washing to become a New Covenant ceremony in His church reminded me of an insight I gained from a teaching by pastor Chuck Smith of Calvary Chapel. Pastor Chuck said that if you want to determine whether a particular teaching or practice should be part of church doctrine, examine it in light of the following three principles: 1. Did Jesus teach it or command it anywhere in the four gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke, John)? 2. In the book of Acts, is it demonstrated or taught in the apostolic church? 3. In the epistles and teaching writings of Paul, Peter, author of Hebrews, etc., is it taught as Christian doctrine? Pastor Chuck advised that if a teaching or practice does not meet these three tests, it may be optional, but it is certainly not to be made a standard of belief or practice in the church. When I evaluate such doctrines as footwashing and Sabbath observance in this way, I come to the conclusion that neither is binding on Christians. What do the rest of you think of this approach? | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 1231 Registered: 12-2003 |
And don't forget the piano players in many of those rooms softly playing hymns like "I Come, I Come" and "Break Thou The Bread Of Life" or "When I Survey The Wondrous Cross" so the participants could hum along or sing softly as they performed the ceremonial washings. Ellen White, as I've mentioned before, wrote against men washing women's feet including husbands and wives. Odd how yet another "testimony" became obscured in the interest of making the required ceremony more palatable, so to speak. (Somehow "palatable" doesn't seem to be the right adjective for footwashing, but you know what I mean!) Colleen | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 1232 Registered: 12-2003 |
I agree, Bob--that approach also takes care of mandatory Sabbath observance! Colleen | ||
| Carol_2 Registered user Username: Carol_2 Post Number: 219 Registered: 2-2002 |
Melissa - even back when I was in high school (academy - class of '79) we washed each other's feet "through" the panty hose. And I agree with what most everyone has said, while an SDA I always felt unworthy to participate in communion, but was afraid not to, and felt like I was being a hypocrite by doing so! And my experience also has been that everyone heads out of town or sleeps in on "13th Sabbath." Isn't that what we called it when we had the qtrly communion after finishing up one SS quarterly and beginning another? Boy, hadn't thought about that in years! Is this "greek" to you never been sdas? Love you all, Carol | ||
| Chris Registered user Username: Chris Post Number: 550 Registered: 7-2003 |
Yes! "13th Sabbath", that was it. And for those never-been SDAs out there, Carol and I are not leaving out the word "the" as a typo, it was just "13th Sabbath". Just another reminder that Adventism really is it's own culture with it's own language. One strategy they used in my childhood church was to have the children's sabbath school classes do something special up front on 13th Sabbath. On 13th Sabbath the kids would recite memory verses, or sing, or whatever. That way the parents couldn't as easily skip out on 13th Sabbath communion. That really brings back memories Carol. Chris | ||
| Raven Registered user Username: Raven Post Number: 162 Registered: 7-2004 |
Yes, that does bring back memories! I remember having stage fright on 13th Sabbath when we had to do stuff up front. When I was 7, I got to be the girl who wore a "label dress". It was a plain jane homemade dress with Worthington and Loma Linda labels pinned all over it so it looked like solid labels. I'm not sure what the point was, because I was so little. It was 7th grade before I finally got bold enough to refuse to participate up front on 13th Sabbath. I remember getting lectures about how disappointed the teachers were with me. Guess that rebellious streak must have grown...Ha ha! | ||
| Ric_b Registered user Username: Ric_b Post Number: 170 Registered: 7-2004 |
I won't comment on either your rebellious or stubborn streak! | ||
| Chris Registered user Username: Chris Post Number: 551 Registered: 7-2003 |
Raven, the worthington & Loma Linda labels were for "Investment". When you collected labels, Worthington and Loma Linda would contribute a penny (or something like that) for each label. If I remember correctly that money went towards "Investment". As long as we're reminicing, what was your "Investment Project"? As a kid I tried making those little potholders (the ones you weave on a little square rack) and then selling them door to door for a nickel. Chris |
