| Author |
Message |
Susan_2
Registered user
Username: Susan_2
Post Number: 1542
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, February 20, 2005 - 6:38 pm: |     |
OK, What is a celebration SDA church? Am I to assume they are celebrating the Risin Savior? If that is the case then every Lutheran church I've been in would be a celebration Lutheran. Somehow, I think my guess is a bit offtrack. Oh, I know! They are celebrating a day off from work. Is that the right answer? |
Flyinglady
Registered user
Username: Flyinglady
Post Number: 1079
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, February 20, 2005 - 7:13 pm: | |
The church I attend is patterned after a celebration church. The music is gospel and grace filled and the first day I attended, I entered the church and sat down and IMMEDIATELY felt at home. The message was all about Jesus. There was a very real difference in the atmosphere and I can only say it was the Holy Spirit.
Susan, and anyone correct me if I am wrong, celebration SDA churchs have loud, lively music with a band or combo playing with the singers. They have overhead screens with the words to the music on them so everyone can see them. A camera is focused on the minister when he starts speaking and his Bible texts are on the bottom of the screens. This is patterned after a non SDA Christian church named Willow Brook/Creek??. The SDAs went to this church to find out why it was having such success. I am not sure of the rest of the history of the Celebration churches. Any one else can jump in and tell Susan more about it.
The real difference is what is being preached from the pulpit, is it Jesus or something else.
Diana |
Bob
Registered user
Username: Bob
Post Number: 70
Registered: 7-2000
| | Posted on Sunday, February 20, 2005 - 7:37 pm: | |
Here in Southern California, I think some of the "celebration type" SDA churches first sent people to visit Saddleback Church, where Rick Warren is the senior pastor, then they tried to copy the worship style, etc. From what I have observed, they are not good copycats. This is somewhat surprising, since their prophetess, EGW, seemed to copy other writers better than she did anything else! |
Flyinglady
Registered user
Username: Flyinglady
Post Number: 1081
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, February 20, 2005 - 7:48 pm: | |
From what I have seen, one can copy style all they want, but if what is coming from the pulpit/minister is not about Jesus and Him crucified, it will not be a success. Then if Jesus is preached people will be learn and some will find Christ and leave the SDA church.
Diana |
Susan_2
Registered user
Username: Susan_2
Post Number: 1544
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, February 20, 2005 - 8:09 pm: | |
Bob, I take it you are in Southeran Ca. If so, have you had the opportunity to hear The City Chior sing? They are WOINDERFUL! Have you been to the big new cathedral in downtoiwn LA? I've heard it huge. I drove past the Crystal Cathedral once. I just remember thinking how I wouldn't want to be in there when the earthquake hit. Have you ever gone to hear Dr. Gene Scott? How about Little Richard? |
Heretic
Registered user
Username: Heretic
Post Number: 3
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, February 20, 2005 - 8:18 pm: | |
I visited the Celebration Center in Colton years ago and found it to be mostly style over substance. The music and drama were okay, but yeah, there was something missing. It almost seemed like they were trying too hard to be different and carve a niche out for themselves among the more "liberal" SDA's in the area. One of the times I visited there, Pastor Dan Simpson, got up and said how the earlier stuff had filled him with the Holy Spirit so much that he was moved not to even have a sermon. But the last time I was there I had a pretty creepy experience with him. I overheard his conversation with a young couple in the breezeway outside the church. Simpson said something to girl like, "I sense you're really struggling, right now, and that you haven't been to church in a long time." Then the guy with her said, "See! I told you he would know!" Maybe this was all taken out of context and I was missing some key element, but it still gave me the heebie jeebies.
Heretic |
Susan_2
Registered user
Username: Susan_2
Post Number: 1545
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, February 20, 2005 - 10:20 pm: | |
I thought the SDA religion forbid drama. I know when I was a kid drama was not allowed in the SDA schools. Are they offering drama now? Come to think about it-some of those SDA programs on tv get really dramatic with their skits and whathaveyou. But, I was told the SDA's hire drama students from the local preforming arts schools and centers for those skits. I remember seeing a FFT or was it that other SDA program, I forgot, however, years ago one of those SDA programs stared Loni Anderson. This was way before her Taxi days. She must have been only around 19 in the program. Sometimes they air the old reruns and I like it when that one comes on. Also, EGW said to not read fiction. I grew up in the days when fiction was still a sin to Adventists. I haven't been in an ABC oin many years but I understand the ABC's now carry fiction. Did dead EGW change her mind about fiction? |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 1447
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Monday, February 21, 2005 - 1:26 pm: | |
Well, Susan, it's probably inevitable that Adventists would figure out a way to publish their own fictional novels, etc. since the powerful voice (Ellen's) that spoke against fiction was, itself, a purveyor of fiction.
Somehow it all evens out in the end!
Colleen |
Goldenbear
Registered user
Username: Goldenbear
Post Number: 62
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Monday, February 21, 2005 - 4:44 pm: | |
Colleen, being an english teacher and all please correct me if I am wrong. I had an english teacher once tell me about a unit he wanted to teach on literature. It was his opinion that many people misinterpreted EGW and her statements about fiction. (It never bothered me, I am a voracious reader) He said that she recommended Pilgrims Progress, which is fiction, and said that people shouldn't read Uncle Tom's Cabin, which was a true account. My teachers point was that he wanted to teach students to be discerners of what we read see and listen to. It shouldn't be based solely on whether it is a real story or not. What say you? |
Seekr777
Registered user
Username: Seekr777
Post Number: 51
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Monday, February 21, 2005 - 6:24 pm: | |
As I start to type this post Iím not even sure if Iíll actually post it.
Iíve been interested in the comments and observations posted about Celebration Churches. I seldom post because I donít feel as talented in writing and not sure if I can express the feelings of my heart as eloquently as others and will be misunderstood.
First a disclaimer: I have attended a Celebration Church for many years and my observations are mine and mine alone. Iím sure that not everyone will agree with me.
When Celebration churches first started literally 100ís of visitors would attend each service and we would go out to our cars and find all the ěfringeî groups had left tracts and pamphlets on the cars.
One of the main differences was the music and worship style.
A second difference was the grace message being preached at the one church I attended.
It seemed that dozens of ěcelebration churchesî sprouted up and the definition of a celebration church was that it have a band and loud celebratory music with the words up on a screen. This was only an external definition of those who only looked on the outside of things. Underneath celebration churches were often very different and trying to define them often did them a disservice.
Changing the outside externals of a church will NOT make a difference in lives. It is only preaching and accepting the risen Savior as Lord of your life that will make a difference. People must be brought into that saving relationship with the risen Jesus. Iíd say that ć of those that attended and even became members did not realize the need for more in there life. I used to cry both inside and outwardly over the situation.
Having said this I also know over the years that many met their Savior and they were His.
We have had a joint ministry with a number of non SDA churches in the area. Not once was the purpose to win ěsoulsî from the other church but rather to make an impact on the community and to impact the lives of those looking for a different life.
For a number of years (probably 10) we have had a program at our church which culminates in a weekend of prayer and healing of emotional and spiritual hurts at another church (nonSDA). We are the only SDA church that has ever been invited to pray and do hands on ministry with this other church in the valley. It has been an awesome experience and very humbling as we come before God in worship and prayer. Iíve seen miracles both spiritual, emotional and physical in many of Godís children. There are often 500+ people there and such a sense of joy in the Lord Jesus. The Holy Spirit is surely working in the lives of all there.
I could write a book of how I have seen God work in the lives of His people. (ěHis peopleî) is NOT a denomination but individuals who are sold out to Jesus.
I am constantly blessed by the experiences of how God has blessed many who post here. I am not blessed by the seeking out of negative examples of how others live. Please continue to point me toward our risen Savior the Lord Jesus and not at the multitude of fallible people.
Unless we exhibit Christís love and with gentleness unfold His love and will for each of us many will not listen. It is very easy for me and maybe even others here to ěhave the truthî (I do not mean denominational truth) and not hear or understand where God is working in the lives and hearts of others. It is only God who can read the heart. He is working on each of us in different ways and sometimes on a different time schedule.
Richard
If anyone needs clarification please email me or ask me here.
rtruitt@mac.com |
Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker
Post Number: 1452
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Monday, February 21, 2005 - 7:02 pm: | |
You're right, Richard, about the fact that many have found Jesus as a result of the gospel being more the focus of Celebration church preaching and the fact that God is at work in everyone who desires to know Him. His schedule is His own.
I still believe that Adventist Celebration churches (I'm not necessarily speaking of those who attend--just the churches and their leadership) are in bondage. Even though the preaching is less identifiably Adventist and baptisms may not be into the Adventist church, still they are connected, and they are compromised.
There really is a remarkable difference in churches where the beliefs are strictly the gospel and the focus is the inerrant word of God. It's not the worship style, as you said, that makes the difference. But wherever there is a clinging, howevever secondary, to doctrines that reduce the centrality of the inerrant Word of God, the identity of Jesus, an extra-biblical authority, or of requirements beyond the acceptance of Jesus, the organization will not be able to disciple people into maturity.
Thank you, though, for your thoughtful and well-expressed post.
Colleen |
Susan_2
Registered user
Username: Susan_2
Post Number: 1553
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Monday, February 21, 2005 - 7:05 pm: | |
But, the SDA's have used the overheard for years upon years. I grew up watching Mission Spotlight. |
Chris
Registered user
Username: Chris
Post Number: 657
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Monday, February 21, 2005 - 9:27 pm: | |
Seekr, you mentioned "the valley" so I'm guessing you might be referring to the Celebration church in Redlands, CA. I've been there quite a few times. Do you know my sister, Dr. Cherry Brandstater? (or do I have the wrong Celebration church?)
Chris |
Seekr777
Registered user
Username: Seekr777
Post Number: 53
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 22, 2005 - 9:49 am: | |
WOW, this is a small world. Yes I attend the Celebration Church in Redlands.
Chris I would never have guessed you were her brother. Cherry and I have had some great discussions and prayer times together. I've been up to her house several times for prayer team retreats.
I don't know her socially but I've known her for a number of years, both at our church and attending various conferences.
I saw her this past Tuesday evening at the church where we have a weekly intercessory prayer time usually from 7-9pm. This past week we didn't leave until after 10pm. I saw God move in ways and with different people that had me in tears. I'm continually in awe of what I see God doing in peoples lives, including my own.
Please send me an email address or someway I can contact you. I'd like to talk sometime.
Richard rtruitt@mac.com
PS: the valley I referred to was the San Fernando Valley where we meet and fellowship with others in conferences and ministries. I find it interesting when I see the comment about not meeting "Christians" and only knowing SDAs. In the past 15 years i can only think of one SDA denominational conference I've attended and I've been to at least 25-30 nonSDA conferences during that time.  I know I have more nonSDA friends outside my church than SDA friends. Now that i think about it I might even have more nonSDA friends in my local church than SDA friends. |
Jeremy
Registered user
Username: Jeremy
Post Number: 378
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 02, 2005 - 4:04 pm: | |
Goldenbear,
EGW did indeed condemn fiction outright many times. And as far as I know, Uncle Tom's Cabin is a very good book! EGW even condemned "good fiction" which was supposed to teach truth, etc. She clearly condemned ALL fiction.
Ellen condemned fiction and said that reading it was a sin, but she plagiarized from fiction herself! So I guess her fiction was not a sin to read???
quote:"There are works of fiction that were written for the purpose of teaching truth or exposing some great evil. Some of these works have accomplished good. Yet they have also wrought untold harm. ...Even fiction which contains no suggestion of impurity, and which may be intended to teach excellent principles, is harmful. ..." (Counsels to Parents, Teachers, and Students, page 383, paragraphs 1-2.)
"It is often urged that in order to win the youth from sensational or worthless literature, we should supply them with a better class of fiction. This is like trying to cure the drunkard by giving him, in the place of whisky or brandy, the milder intoxicants, such as wine, beer, or cider. The use of these would continually foster the appetite for stronger stimulants. The only safety for the inebriate, and the only safeguard for the temperate man, is total abstinence. For the lover of fiction the same rule holds true. Total abstinence is his only safety." (The Ministry of Healing, page 446, paragraph 2.)
"As a preparation for Christian work, many think it essential to acquire an extensive knowledge of historical and theological writings. They suppose that this knowledge will be an aid to them in teaching the gospel. But their laborious study of the opinions of men tends to the enfeebling of their ministry, rather than to its strengthening. As I see libraries filled with ponderous volumes of historical and theological lore, I think, Why spend money for that which is not bread? ..." (The Ministry of Healing, page 441, paragraph 1.)
That last statement is curious, considering the fact that Ellen G. White herself had a 1,200+ volume library (including many non-Adventist historical and theological books), from which she plagiarized extensively.
I guess we should not spend money for her books "which are not bread"!
She probably just didn't want anybody reading those books because she didn't want them to find out that she plagiarized from them and that that was where she got her "writings" from!!
EGW did speak highly of Pilgrim's Progress, but based upon the quotes I just gave, it's just another self-contradiction!
Jeremy |
Flyinglady
Registered user
Username: Flyinglady
Post Number: 1117
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 02, 2005 - 4:55 pm: | |
Goldenbear,
How long have you attended the Celebration Church in Redlands? I ask because when my brother lived in the area he used to attend there. That was about 10 years ago. He taught a SS class while he was there.
Diana |
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