| Author | Message | ||
| Faith2 Registered user Username: Faith2 Post Number: 7 Registered: 3-2005 |
Okay people!!! What happens when we die? I know what I was taught but I am not sure if the sda view is correct! Tell me the truth I can handle it! LOL | ||
| Chris Registered user Username: Chris Post Number: 768 Registered: 7-2003  |
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| Faith2 Registered user Username: Faith2 Post Number: 8 Registered: 3-2005 |
What are those who have died doing? Does this mean that they have already made it? What about those who are wicked? Where do they go? Thanks Chris | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 1725 Registered: 11-2002 |
Honestly, I have no idea what happens to us after we die. I do know how I think I believe, however, even that is speculation because I've never been dead (brain dead to some but that's geting off topic). I also know how the various Christian and non-Christian religions teach. And, for me it really is a non-issue because in the Bible it says those who are saved in Jesus will see Him "in the twinkling of an eye". So, for some reason that I haven't been drawn to annilyzing why I have latched onto that text and for me the after death state is a non-issue because I believe in a fair and a just God and that's as far and as deep as I chose to deal with that question. However, there is those texts where Paul says he'd rather be dead and be in heaven with Jesus but he mulls it over for awhile and decides to stay here on earth so he can share the Good News of Christ to more folks. And, there's that passage about our tents being temporary. I understand the term tents in that passage is a synnonym to body. So, I actually tend to believe Bibically those who died "in Chrst" are with Christ. Still, I go back to the 'twinkling of an eye' text and don't let myself get worked up over it. Jesus did tell the theif on the next cross over, "TODAY you will be with me in paradise". | ||
| Tdf Registered user Username: Tdf Post Number: 63 Registered: 11-2004 |
Faith2, I'm sure others much more eloquent than me can address your question. However, I just wanted to mention that I've reached the point where I must acknowledge that Scripture texts could be quoted to support more than one position on the state of the dead. As I've begun reading Scripture without EGW glasses, I've recognized that the Bible allows for explanations other than soul sleep. Therefore, for now, I've decided not to spend too much time on the subject. If you have always viewed the subject from the SDA perspective, you might want to consider re-reading texts such as Revelation 6:9-11, Job 26:1-6, John 11:25, 1 Thes. 5:9-11, John 5:25-29, and 1 Peter 3:15-22. tdf | ||
| Chris Registered user Username: Chris Post Number: 769 Registered: 7-2003 |
Faith2, Here is a nice concise study on THE STATE OF THE DEAD. Also, Proclamation, Volume 2, No.3 (June/July 2001) contained several very good articles on this same topic. You can access these articles by clicking HERE, then scrolling down to the June/July 2001 issue. May the Holy Spirit guide you as you read. May He bring you into all truth and protect you from all error. May you have the very mind of Christ through the indwelling of the Sprit. Happy reading! Chris | ||
| Faith2 Registered user Username: Faith2 Post Number: 9 Registered: 3-2005 |
Thank you all very much for the scriptures of reference. I want to understand or at least try to understand as much as possible. I believe the the holy spirit wil walk me through this process of understanding. What happens to me after I die is important knowledge because its dealing with ME! God never said that it is an untouchable knowledge. There are a lot of theories out there! Once again , thanks everyone! | ||
| Faith2 Registered user Username: Faith2 Post Number: 10 Registered: 3-2005 |
Thanks Chris, checking into it right now!!! | ||
| Esther Registered user Username: Esther Post Number: 186 Registered: 5-2004  |
Also good verses Matthew 22:31-33; John 11:25-26; John 6:50. Although I too don't feel I can be too dogmatic about what happens, end up on the flip side to Adventist teachings since most everyone I know is dogmatic about soul-sleep. | ||
| Ric_b Registered user Username: Ric_b Post Number: 218 Registered: 7-2004  |
I spent plenty of time strugging with the change, particularly eternal hell vs annilihation. My first conclusion was that if I trusted God for my salvation I could also trust that His solution would be the best solution--regardless. I quit trying to judge whether God would still be loving if He punished eternally. Perhaps that is just how bad sin really is, and we fail to appreciate how bad it is. I still have some emotionally unease with eternal punishment, but I am beginning to think that the combined teachings of annilihation and perfectionism is particularly dangerous. How many people can we point to, other than Jesus, that have ever been perfect? I am not aware of any. Ever! But SDA teaching is that we don't change our characters (or our ability to sin) between this life and the next and that we must be sufficiently sinless that we can be trusted to be in heaven. Given that criteria, how many of us believe we would qualify? I suspect none. So the only conclusion within SDA theology would be that we can't attain Heaven, yet we have nothing to fear in totally disregarding God for we will be quickly and totally annilihated. Given the choice between great effort with guaranteed failure/no reward and no effort with no consequence, how many choose agnosticism--even if they stay for the social contact? I'm so thankful to know the true Sabbath rest in Christ, it isn't about my effort any more and I have His promise of success. | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 473 Registered: 10-2004  |
People have suggested John 11:25 and John 11:25-26, and now I will suggest John 11:24-26.  I think one of the keys to that passage is where Martha says she believes something in verse 24, then Jesus says something and asks her, "do you believe THIS"? Also, Philippians 1:21-24 says:
Jeremy | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 1247 Registered: 3-2004  |
To me, the state of the dead is not a salvation issue, so I am leaving it up to God. I have read in the Bible about Stephen giving up his spirit when he died and Jesus on the cross after he said "It is finished". The in Revelation there are the souls under the altar. So there is a soul/spirit that leaves the body. Those that have accepted and loved Jesus go to heaven and those that have not go else where, from what I understand. I have not studied this extensively, but I trust God to do what is just for everyone. He is awesome. Diana | ||
| Bob Registered user Username: Bob Post Number: 144 Registered: 7-2000  |
A book that takes an exhaustive scriptural in-depth look at the subject is Death and The Afterlife, by Dr. Robert A. Morey. It was very helpful to me. I have heard it was out of print, but you may be able to order it (paperback) at the following site: http://www.graceandtruthbooks.com/listdetails.asp?ID=594&RP=/puritans/theology.asp Bob | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 1661 Registered: 12-2003  |
Also, read 2 Corinthians 5:1-10. This passage indicates that when we leave our earthly tent (something called "we" leaves the tents!), we go to be with Christ. This event is not the resurrection, and we don't receive resurrection bodies at this point. But somehow, according to Paul, it seems we are "in Christ" instead of in our bodies until the resurrection. And, in verse 9, he says we make it our goal to please the Lord whether we are in our bodies or away from them. Ask God to teach you what He wants you to know. I keep referring to John Piper's comment in his book, "Brothers, We Are Not Professionals" where he says he believes the purpose of the difficult passages in the Bible is to get us to fall on our knees before God and ask Him to teach us the truth He wants us to know. He is faithful. You can study the Bible and pray for His direction, and the Holy Spirit will teach you what you need to know. Generally, He won't teach you everything at once, either. He teaches us in small, digestible bits and allows truth to settle in order to nurture the next insight of truth. We just keep deepening in Jesus and in His understanding. Colleen | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 343 Registered: 4-2000  |
Bob, Dr. Morey's excellent book on this topic, "Death and the Afterlife," should be required reading for every Seventh-day Adventist. I have three copies (including a hard-cover edition). Dr. Morey effectively addresses the errors of SDA apologists on this important topic. I heartily recommend this book. It can be purchased directly from the author at www.faithdefenders.com for $14.95 plus shipping. Dr. Robert Morey is the author of 45 outstanding books. Happy reading! Dennis J. Fischer | ||
| Goldenbear Registered user Username: Goldenbear Post Number: 79 Registered: 12-2004 |
What really gave me clarity was when I realized that the big arguement is not over the state of the dead but over how those who remain perceive their state. Adventist teach that when a person dies they sleep and when the awake when Jesus comes it is as if no time has passed. Most of Christendom teaches that when a person dies that are immediately in the presence of God.(or whever they deserve to be) To the person who dies they won't know the difference. People may just be rearranging deck chairs on the titanic on this one. Diana said that to her it wasn't a salvation issue. God asked Adam to trust him in the garden and not eat. He continued to ask his people to trust him throughout the bible and I believe that he still asks us to trust him. If I am in a trust-filled relationship, I don't really think it matters to my salvation. | ||
| Faith2 Registered user Username: Faith2 Post Number: 11 Registered: 3-2005 |
Clarity!!! I do not think that the state of the dead is a salvation issue! Adventist may or may not have it right. I know what I was taught in Adventism but I am learning that there are other views as well. I personally feel that others "STRESSING" that the state of the dead is not a salvation issue is really a comfortable way of saying I'M NOT SURE! It is okay not to be sure but please do not make me feel condemned for seeking truth. Nevertheless, I have been searching the scriptures that many of you have so graciously recommended and truly there seems to be a million and one ways of looking at the state of the dead. I found the most inspiration from "Purpose Driven life" chapter four. I rest in this one thing, regardless of the truth, I will be with Jesus when itís all said and done! For the first time in my life, I can care less about the benefits of heaven, I am honored to know that I will spend eternity with the man who died for me and truly loves me! THAT"S GOOD NEWS!!! | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 478 Registered: 10-2004 |
Faith2, Some more texts to look at include 2 Peter 2:4-9, 2 Peter 1:13-14, 2 Timothy 4:6, and Luke 16:19-31, Matthew 12:40, Ephesians 4:8-10, Luke 8:31, Romans 10:7, Revelation 20:1-3, Luke 23:46, and Acts 7:55-59. Goldenbear, Your wrote, "To the person who dies they won't know the difference." Actually, they would know the difference. The difference is whether the person is without a body when they first meet Jesus, or whether they first meet Jesus when they are resurrected with a new body at the coming of Jesus. So they certainly would know the difference. And the NT is clear that we are not "in the flesh/body" when we first meet Jesus (if we die before His coming). Jeremy | ||
| Belvalew Registered user Username: Belvalew Post Number: 243 Registered: 7-2004 |
I have to agree with Jeremy here. The scriptures are clear that to be absent from the body (for the Christian) is to be present with the Lord. Once I accepted that text, I was certain that immediately after I breathe my last I will stand in the presence of my Saviour. There are enough references to the fact that we reside on this earth in a tent of flesh to know that the body is all that dies. Remember also that nothing of earth shall enter heaven. That means that our bodies, made out of the dust of this earth, cannot go there. They must be transformed into the type of "spirit house" that will be acceptable in heaven when Jesus returns for our physical natures. No matter. I feel that even in spirit form God will have a work, and joys for us while we await the quickening of our resurrection bodies, and that work will NOT be the haunting of our relatives who are still alive. Belva | ||
| Faith2 Registered user Username: Faith2 Post Number: 13 Registered: 3-2005 |
Thanks Jeremy and Belva! |
