| Author | Message | ||
| Becky Registered user Username: Becky Post Number: 32 Registered: 2-2005 |
Hi All, I gave my dad a picture of Burt Beach handing the SDA medallian to the Pope which upset him very much. I also gave him a copy that article from the Arkansas Gazette (from Truthorfables.com) showing how SDA tithes go into investments in jewelry, pork distribution companies, caffeine etc. This also upset Dad, and he promised to find out about that. Dad called tonight, and his mind was put back at ease. It seems he was told Burt Beach did, in fact, give a medallian to the Pope, but he did not have the General Conference approval to do so. He was told Mr. Beach acting on his own accord and was subsequently fired. As for the tithe issue, he was told that individual pastors used to be able to invest their retirement allotment however they wished. He was told this caused a big shake up in the church, and that issue has since been resolved. The man my dad talked to about this said he had to hand to me (Becky), I've really done my homework. Well, thanks to all of you - you've done the homework. I wouldn't have a clue how to have come up with such a wealth of information if it weren't for this forum. Any thoughts?? | ||
| Goldenbear Registered user Username: Goldenbear Post Number: 96 Registered: 12-2004 |
becky, I don't have the time to research right now, but I doubt that bert beach would do anything that momentous without gc approval. (my shift key isn't working on the right side.) something like that would have to have clearance from above. One thing that small organziations have learned, to create dependency on and belief by all members in the organization only requires a shared villain. In this case, the rCC. | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 742 Registered: 10-2004  |
Becky, your father was told that the whole stocks issue has been "resolved"?? I highly doubt it. In addition, EGW says that is a sin to even have investments in the stock market at all! All of this shows that the SDA leaders don't even believe the Adventist garbage themselves. Jeremy | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 2107 Registered: 12-2003  |
Good point, Jeremy. The SDA leaders don't believe the public statements themselves! I'm with Goldenbear--I doubt Burt Beach would have done something that momentous on his own. I had understood that GC president Neal Wilson had presented a medallion to the pope some years back, but perhaps that was the Burt Beach incident instead. At any rate, I'm quite sure it was a sanctioned act. Richard said he remembered reading something about GC administration presenting the pope with a medal in the Adventist Review several years ago. I haven't researched this--I'm just skeptical that Beach's presentation was a unliateral act! Colleen | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 399 Registered: 3-2005 |
And Colporteur over on R/S believes the SDA leadership is cooperating and being infiltrated by the Jesuits. The black helicopter crowd conspiracy types are alive and well. Stan | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 1852 Registered: 11-2002 |
So, maybe it's the reverse of what we all were taught. Maybe it's the Adventists who are trying to infilterate the Catholic church. After all, Sammuelle Bacchoicchio did go to the Vatican school over there in Italy. | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 402 Registered: 3-2005 |
Susan, Yes, that is what the conspiracy types point to, as Bacchiochi is there favorite whipping boy. Stan | ||
| Bob Registered user Username: Bob Post Number: 304 Registered: 7-2000  |
B.B. Beach was such a prominent church leader, I would want to see proof that he was "fired" for giving that medallion to the pope! I think that assertion is a total fabrication. Bob | ||
| Seekr777 Registered user Username: Seekr777 Post Number: 165 Registered: 1-2003  |
Stan I had to smile when you mentioned the "black helicopter" crowd. When I was in Nam every once in awhile we had a "black helicopter" that would land with wounded. The helicopter had no markings and the fair faced military types onboard had no rank or markings on their uniforms. Talk about secret missions??  I was stationed at a MASH unit about 8 miles from the DMZ so I suppose we were a convient stop when they were coming back from "where ever" they might have been. It was not a very well kept secret except from the American public. Richard rtruitt@mac.com | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 404 Registered: 4-2000  |
Susan, This may trigger a rhubarb in conservative SDA circles, but Dr. Jan Paulsen, current GC president, received his doctorate at Tubingen University (a notable Jesuit institution) in Germany. So, Dr. Bacchiocci is not the only SDA who graduated from a Catholic institution. By the way, as soon as the GC Session closes in St. Louis next month, SDA Kinship International (the homosexual SDA organization) will conduct their annual "Kampmeeting" at St. Louis University (another Jesuit institution). Dennis J. Fischer | ||
| Becky Registered user Username: Becky Post Number: 33 Registered: 2-2005 |
Dennis, I'm not trying to be stupid (just comes naturally), but is the "SDA Kinship International" under the same SDA umbrella as the rest of them. I.E. is the Kinship just a group that broke off SDA's or do they report to the same GC etc? Also, what is a "Kampmeeting"? | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 743 Registered: 10-2004 |
Becky, I agree with Bob. According to the truthorfables.com web site (Robert Sanders), it appears that Bert Beach was still representing the SDAs in 1991 and 2002 when meeting with the Pope/Catholic church. http://www.truthorfables.com/SDA_Clasp_Hands_With_rome.htm Jeremy | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 405 Registered: 4-2000 |
Becky, SDA Kinship International (www.sdakinship.org) is not an officially-sponsored SDA organization. The SDA Church lost a court case with them about using their trademarked name some years ago. I don't know why they prefer the spelling of "Kampmeeting" instead of campmeeting. Perhaps they don't want to further antagonize official Adventism by using their expressions. A senior pastor of the College View SDA Church (here in Lincoln, Nebraska), a few years ago, was one of the featured SDA Kinship International Kampmeeting speakers in Minnesota. His going there was not well accepted by his SDA congregation nor superiors. Dennis J. Fischer | ||
| Jerry Registered user Username: Jerry Post Number: 457 Registered: 6-2002 |
The only thing about Bert Beach that I can find is http://news.adventist.org/data/2002/10/1036527997/index.html.en It seems more like a retirement to me, but nothing is clearly stated. | ||
| Windmotion Registered user Username: Windmotion Post Number: 152 Registered: 6-2001 |
That article Jerry has nothing to do with Beach's retirement from any Adventist institution Jerry, but some ecumenical institution. Here is some interesting stuff on Beach from http://www.seventh-day.org/assisi.htm discussing and inter-religious observance at Assisi that Beach was on the list to attend with the Pope. "Why was Beach named? SimpIe enough: He has been the Seventh-day Adventist Church contact man with the WCC and the Vatican for decades. Indeed, he has probably been a liaison with the WCC and Rome longer than any other man named on the entire listóCatholic, Protestant, or governmental! Who is Bert B. Beach? He is the son of Walter Beach, Secretary of the General Conference in 1950s, when I attended our Seminary and worked on the night crew at the General Conference. Bert Beach is a European who speaks several languages fluently and has been the General Conference representative to the WCC since 1967óthe same year that Pope Paul VI appointed its first Vatican representative to the WCC. Now you can understand why Bert Beach was our denomination's representative in kneeling before the pope on May 18,1977, and offering him a gold medallion on behalf the people and organiza‚tion of Seventh-day Adventists. He was in Rome that day as leader of the World Confessional Families (now called Christian World Communions), an interfaith organization of several Protestant denominations, organized by the WCC in 1968. How did he get appointed to that position? It carne as a result of his year-after-year contacts With Protestant church leaders at WCC headquarters in Geneva, Switzerland. Ignore this talk that our church does not have a representative at the World Council of Churches! We have had one there for 35 years! Is he voting member? He most assuredly is. He is a voting member of the most important ecumenical and interfaith doctrinal committee of the WCC, representing a broad range of Protestant denominations (The Faith and Order Commission). On that committee has sat a Vatican representative since 1967, the same year that Beach carne on board. In fact, Beach has been the chairman of that WCC ecumenical committee for at least two decades! Why was he so influential? First, he is at ease in so many European languages. Second, he has been on the committee longer than anyone else. Third, he is so friendly, that he sets all the newcomers at ease. He is an extremely congenial person. Fourth, he knows all the background of ecumenical activities of the committee and the WCC, going back further than anyone else. So it has been natural for the representatives to elect this friendly, astute, knowledgeable man of affairs, year after year, as committee chairman. If you ask our church leaders about this, they will reply that the General Conference is not, and has never held membership in the World Council of Churches. Very true. Instead, the General Conference used two ruses to maintain its very close connections with the WCC. First, our General Conference appointed Bert Beach as a voting "personal representative" to this key WCC interfaith Faith and Order Commission, especially set up for the purpose of cooperating With the Vatican II objective of sending representatives to the other churches and to the WCC, but not joining the WCC. It is significant that, of all the denominations in Christendom, only two chose to send representatives without joining the WCC. Everyone else either joined it or stayed out of it entirely. Those two were the Roman Catholic Church and the Seventh-day Adventist Church. They send "personal representatives." Why did the Catholic Church do that? It wanted to deepen its contacts and alliances with the other churches; but, because its doctrines taught that it was the only true church of Christ, it did not want to lower itself to full membership in the WCC. The Adventist Church followed the same route because it knew its members (most of whom were still conservative back then) would be extremely upset if it openly joined the WCC." | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 744 Registered: 10-2004 |
Here are some interesting comments from the webpage that Jerry linked to:
There is something wrong if there is even a debate in the Christian community about whether your church is a cult! Jeremy (Message edited by jeremy on June 11, 2005) | ||
| Ric_b Registered user Username: Ric_b Post Number: 261 Registered: 7-2004  |
Wouldn't you have to say that, despite the rhetoric, SDA doctrine also teaches that is is the only true church. I think it is just as likely a motive for the SDA approach to the WCC as it is for the RCC approach. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 2111 Registered: 12-2003 |
Ric, I had the same thought. I am convinced that at the upper administrative levels, the SDA church is nothing like the average member thinks of it. It is a player in circles of power and money and politics. They have left no stone unturned to undo their earlier reputation as a cultic, odd religion. They share the same superiority complex for themselvs that the Catholic church carries about itself. Indeed, as this discussion has shown, they actually have quite tight connections in various forms with the Catholic church. The people in the pews are kept blind to the truth about the church by the spiritual deception that keeps them in bondage to Adventist doctrine. By keeping the people feeling a) special (the remmant, true church of God), b) obligated (to the law, to the church through whose doctrines they find "truth") and c) complacent (by believing they have "truth" and belonging to the "true church"), they succeed in deceiving the people whose tithe pays their bills. Because they are not committed to or motivated by truth, the average SDA doesn't want to know what's REALLY going on. They might have to question themselves if they questioned the church. Praise God for His Spirit and Word of truth! Colleen | ||
| Dt Registered user Username: Dt Post Number: 50 Registered: 4-2005 |
This is from the Adventist News Network: World Church: Book of Essays, Dinner, Honor Retiring Church Statesman Silver Spring, Maryland, United States .... [ANN Staff] ------------------------------------------------------- Paying tribute to decades of interfaith effort, friends and leaders of the Seventh-day Adventist Church and others gathered at the church's world headquarters June 16 to honor Dr. Bert B. Beach, director of inter-church relations for the movement. "Building Bridges of Faith and Freedom," a festschrift, or celebratory publication, honoring Dr. Beach was released at the dinner. It is believed to be the first such tribute published by a world church department. The book features essays on religious freedom and Dr. Beach's work in that area. Contributors include president of the United Nations' Human Rights Committee, Abdelfattah Amor; Cardinal Walter Kasper, president of the Vatican Council for the Promotion of Christian Unity; Rosa Maria Martinez de Codes, former vice director for religious affairs in Spain's Justice Ministry, and Lutheran World Federation official Rev. Sven Oppegaard, among others. "I've had a wonderful life," Dr. Beach, who will end his five decades of service to the world church this year, said in response to tributes from Pastor Jan Paulsen, world president of the Adventist Church, Dr. Denton Lotz, general secretary of the Baptist World Alliance, and others. "Bert B. Beach made a difference in the history of his church," Pastor Paulsen wrote in the book. "He pioneered interchurch relations. He helped his church to look beyond its own borders to the brother, the neighbor, the stranger who was also created by God." Beach, who began his church career as an educator, rose to the position of executive secretary of the Adventist church's Western European and West African regions, before embarking on a more than 20-year career as director of public affairs and religious liberty and, recently, director of inter-church relations. Under his aegis, the Adventist Church has held high-level consultations with the Lutheran World Federation, The Salvation Army and other communities. He was, for 32 years, secretary of the Conference of Secretaries of the Christian World Communions, an interfaith body uniting 2 billion Christians around the globe. "If today most of the Christian leaders recognized us as a Christian Church, it is the result of [Beach's] persistent and outstanding relations with other Christian leaders," added Dr. John Graz, public affairs and religious liberty director for the world church. | ||
| Riverfonz Registered user Username: Riverfonz Post Number: 440 Registered: 3-2005 |
Dt, Thanks for posting this. This release raises a whole lot of interesting questions, and would certainly get the conspiracy theories going. A lot of those groups mentioned which the SDA church has been making alliances with, are questionable as to whether they are truly Christian to begin with. But what I question in all of this is, What is the true agenda of the SDA church leadership? They are much more closely aligned with the Roman church than their official EGW theology would allow. I personally believe that Paulsen and his crowd don't really believe their own doctrines. I think they may be using their power positions just to enhance their country club status with other liberal so-called Christian groups which feathers their nest. It was clear Folkenberg used his presidency for financial gain. Who knows, but I am certainly suspicious of their motives. Stan | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 773 Registered: 10-2004 |
I think their main motives are probably to get Christians to think that they are a Christian church and not a cult and also to "prevent/delay" Sunday law persecution, etc. Jeremy | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 2161 Registered: 12-2003 |
I agree, Stan and Jeremy--but I believe it's even more. I really do believe those at the top have deep financial ties to power players at different levels around the world. For them, I believe (although I cannot prove), their financial ties also have political importance, and when push comes to shove as power blocs move into position as time moves toward the return of Jesus, I suspect the Adventist church will be align itself wherever it can benefit the most in terms of power and gain. I guess I've become convinced that the old phrase "follow the money" applies hereóand that includes "follow the power" as well. Colleen | ||
| 91steps Registered user Username: 91steps Post Number: 2 Registered: 8-2005 |
Folks, I still work at the GC, am TRYING to get away from there NOW!!!! Bert Beach just recently retired from the GC, for the 3rd of 4th time!!!! He is now in with the PARL group, who is connected with the UN! The stories I could tell about the "elected" officials would make you vomit!!!! | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 2409 Registered: 12-2003 |
Remind me, 91Steps, what PARL stands for. I have known, but I can't remember now. In what way is it connected to the UN? (I'm not doubting, you understand; just interested.) As I've said before, after covering the Folkenberg story at the turn of 2000, I'm completely convinced the SDA church has financial and political ties to power bases all over, and not all are reputable, either. I just want to encourage you to ground yourself firmly in God's word as you seek to leave the GC. You are in a spiritual battle, make no mistake. There is truth in Scripture, and there is safety in Jesus. He will guide you as He opens your eyes; He will not leave you floundering or trapped. Truth sets us free, exactly as Jesus said! Colleen | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 1786 Registered: 3-2004  |
91steps, I have added you to my prayer list. Colleen is so right about grounding ourselves in Jesus and the Bible only. God will guide you. Just keep your eyes on Him. Diana | ||
| 91steps Registered user Username: 91steps Post Number: 14 Registered: 8-2005 |
PARL is Public Affairs and Religious Liberties Dept. They have a UN Liason who spend quite a bit of time at UN HQ. When I heard this I asked why the GC is connected with the UN, an anti-Christian organization. I was told the UN "can get us into area's that are not open to us"! My reply was to ask why the SDA Church was whoring itself to the UN????? I lost friends in the Military on so called UN Peacekeeping missions, so needless to say I am NOT fond of them. Also, ADRA is hooked in with the UN also. Thank-you for your prayers, | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 2488 Registered: 12-2003 |
Thanks, Steps. Yes, I think your answer from them re: the UN getting them into places not otherwise open to them is not the whole story. With prayers for you, Colleen | ||
| 91steps Registered user Username: 91steps Post Number: 15 Registered: 8-2005 |
Lets just say I despise the UN and it cut me to the core to hear the Church I had so readlily joined has whored themself to the UN! |
