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Belvalew
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Username: Belvalew

Post Number: 979
Registered: 7-2004
Posted on Thursday, March 09, 2006 - 3:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have to confess--I'm hooked on posting on CARM, the Seventh-day Adventist section. You'd think that at some point I would weary of poking a sharp stick into my own eye! Anyway, a fellow over there started a thread of the very same name and has been going off about the covenant between God and Abraham, and how because of that covenant even the Gentiles are covered by the Torah, through Abraham.

He seems to be obsessing about the number of offspring promised Abraham (seed) and when I made my comment about the word seed referring to the Promised, One-of-a-kind, True Seed--Jesus Christ, he just slid right past it and posted some other website that theorizes that Paul was teaching Sabbath-keeping in I Timothy. Here is the link:
http://www.angelfire.com/wa2/bethmiqlat/seb.html

I barely have a command of the English language, let alone Hebrew and Greek. I'm grateful to you on this site who do read the original biblical languages. How much credence should be given to this theory?
Colleentinker
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Username: Colleentinker

Post Number: 3510
Registered: 12-2003


Posted on Thursday, March 09, 2006 - 4:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Oh, Belva--

I looked at the "explanation" of 1 Timothy 1 and the beginning of the explanation for chapter 2 and compared what he was saying with the NASB, which is a word translation. (I know, the author already said the truth of the Greek has been suppressed so any translation from the Greek, he considers suspect.)

This man's explanation flies in the face of all we know from Galatians, Romans, and Hebrews about the New Covenant. Because he can't support his view any other way, he resorts to insisting that from time out of mind the Bible trnalsators have suppressed the "real" meaning of the Greek words which are translated "godly" in English. He isnsits that a human "conspiracy" has succeeded in suppressing Paul's teaching about Sabbath-keeping.

If this man is correct, then all Paul said in Romans, Galatians, and Colossians is false. Further, the Acts 15 account of the Council of Jerusalem would also have been a "conspiracy" to keep the Gentiles from being taught about Sabbath Keeping.

Not only so, but Hebrews 4 would have to be a blatant lie, insisting that there is a "sabbatismos", a Sabbath rest, for God's people which is TODAYóand we are to enter it TODAY.

I remember reading in Scott Peck's book, "People of the Lie", that one of the marks of evil is confusion. The article at the site you posted is hard to follow and confusing. The man's point is built on assumptions, not facts.

The Adventist person on CARM who is using this article to bolster his arguments is, interestingly, using an example of poor scholarship to make his point about Sabbath. It's interesting that anyone can make such a bold claim about Paul's supposed teaching of Sabbath-keeping in 1 Timothy while ignoring the clear teaching of the new covenant in the rest of Paul's epistles.

Amazing.

Keep holding the torch of truth, Belva!

Colleen
Ric_b
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Username: Ric_b

Post Number: 451
Registered: 7-2004


Posted on Thursday, March 09, 2006 - 4:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I am thinking of starting a 12 step program for recovering Carmites! Even when I tell myself I am going to spend way less time there, I find myself back in the middle of debates.
Ric_b
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Username: Ric_b

Post Number: 452
Registered: 7-2004


Posted on Thursday, March 09, 2006 - 4:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Actually Colleen it isn't an SDA on CARM making this argument, it is a MJ.
Seekr777
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Username: Seekr777

Post Number: 434
Registered: 1-2003


Posted on Thursday, March 09, 2006 - 5:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ric, it is late in the day after a difficult day with 30 kids and I'm confused!

MJ ??

richard

rtruitt@mac.com


Colleentinker
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker

Post Number: 3516
Registered: 12-2003


Posted on Thursday, March 09, 2006 - 6:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks, RicóI did notice that the linked article sounded like a Messianic Jew.

Colleen
Seekr777
Registered user
Username: Seekr777

Post Number: 436
Registered: 1-2003


Posted on Thursday, March 09, 2006 - 6:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Colleen thanks for answering my question. I'm finally heading for home from school.

richard


Willy430
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Username: Willy430

Post Number: 13
Registered: 2-2006
Posted on Thursday, March 09, 2006 - 6:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Belvalew:

Keep reading that guy is self distructing as we speak, he's from a sect who call themselves Nazerites, and they are exactly what Paul warned us about. His entire out look is from the Mosaic standpoint, everything must be read and understood from the point of Moses. In my opinion the guy is very off course, in some of his posts he postulated that the Sabbath is not determined correctly by use of the weekly calandar, but the lunar one, so he should be keeping some other Sabbath and feast days on the lunar cycle, this is in contention with all known Jewish hstory.

If you notice his constant lament is they didn't translate that correctly. About the tenth time he told me a reference verse I used was not translated correctly I cut him off. If God wanted his type of thinking I believe he would have left the temple standing. MJ'S Messanic Jews will keep you on your toes, but they don't stand a chance next to good old Christian doctrine.

The two house doctrine seems to be a responce to the constant and unanswerable questions by knowledgable Christian theologians, I think it's relatively new, last ten years? I have to admit I don't study their ideas all that much to much SDA theology to unlearn.
Bill
Belvalew
Registered user
Username: Belvalew

Post Number: 980
Registered: 7-2004
Posted on Thursday, March 09, 2006 - 7:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks, Bill. I've noticed that several Messianic Jews post in defense of Adventist positions, but they mostly muddy the water like this fellow does, leading people into rabbit warrens of thought. I, as much as told him that it doesn't matter to me how many people can trace their ancestry to Abraham. It wouldn't surprise me if 3/4 of the earth's population can trace back to Abraham. The only seed of importance, however, is Christ. That's my story, and I'm stickin' to it!

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