| Author | Message | ||
| Violet Registered user Username: Violet Post Number: 337 Registered: 2-2001 |
I don't know if this has ever been discussed here but after reading about the 10 Commandment day I was wondering what if there was a Sunday Law passed. Not in the way that SDAs think it will pass but I could really see Satan capitalzing on that one. The "sunday keepers" would be going to the old law, the "sabbath keepers" would be saying "we told you so" and the rest of us would have to cling to Jesus. This has been rattleing around in my head the past few days and I just can't get it out. What are your thoughts? | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 2163 Registered: 11-2002 |
It ia my understanding that when EGW was in Australia that country had some firm Sunday laws. I understand thai was limited to not having businesses open on Sunday. EGW encouraged her followers to keep Sabbath holy and giving Sunday to the Lord by passing out literature and doing SDA Bible studies, etc. There is a country down by Australia called Tonga. Tonga is a country of around 130 small islands. The country has strict Sunday laws and according to the SDA website the SDA's down there have church on Sunday and the individuasls keep Sabbath as a day of rest privately in their own homes. So we have president on how the SDA church deals with Sunday laws. | ||
| Violet Registered user Username: Violet Post Number: 340 Registered: 2-2001 |
Then why were we terrorized as children about the passing of the Sunday Law and how it will be the test for salvation? That it will be the Mark of the Beast etc etc? | ||
| Windmotion Registered user Username: Windmotion Post Number: 289 Registered: 6-2001  |
Violet, the Sunday law terror is SDA prophecy about what will happen in the end times. Supposedly it is fulfillment of the Mark of the Beast prophecies because the mark of the beast is the number of man. (Sunday is man's day, Saturday is the Lord's day.) It won't be enough that EVERYONE will have to "keep Sunday holy" but that EVERYONE will have to work on Saturday. This idea has so many holes in it it's not even funny, not the least being Christians are the minority in the world, so how are we going to force our religion on everyone. I don't even think most Christians would go this far, and I don't think any Christian would agree to kill someone that breaks this hypothetical law. Illogically, Hannah | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 3588 Registered: 12-2003  |
Even if some sort of Sunday law were passed, it cannot be what Adventists have said it will be. They make it the end-time test of loyalty to God. The real test of loyalty will be our loyalty to Jesus and His gospel. The "day" may be a superifical issue, but those who truly love Jesus and honor Him over everything (not honor one day over another) are those who will be persecuted. The reason, I believe, is that true Christ-followers cannot actually be controlled by human manipulation. Their loyalty to Jesus overrides their own political or fianancial gain. Darkness hates the light. They will be persecuted because they are children of the light. Colleen | ||
| Pheeki Registered user Username: Pheeki Post Number: 773 Registered: 1-2003 |
I am glad to hear about someone else was terrorized by the SDA's over the Sunday Laws and the time of trouble (though I am sorry you had to endure it!). I have had SDA's on other forums tell me I was crazy...or had a fanatical family because they never experienced it. So thank you Violet for sharing that!!! | ||
| Violet Registered user Username: Violet Post Number: 343 Registered: 2-2001 |
Pheeki, When the towers fell we had been out of SDA for a little over one year. My then 12 year old daughter wept because she was so scared that she was not ready for Jesus because of what she had been taught in her Sabbath School class. That is the point in parents life that your heart breaks because you allowed your children to be exposed to that garbage. PS we live in the Central U.S. not near any fanatical groups | ||
| Carol_2 Registered user Username: Carol_2 Post Number: 394 Registered: 2-2002  |
Pheeki - I don't know of hardly any SDAs of my generation (I'm 44) that weren't terrorized as children by the SDA end-time beliefs. I can remember in academy (Broadview near Chicago) at night in the dorm our girls dean terrorizing us at our evening worship, and we'd all go back to our rooms a mess. I remember my best friend crying hysterically half the night because she knew she wouldn't be ready and would be lost. Even among my many SDA friends who have not left the church, we reminisce about this. I think the next generation may be a little better off. I know even as an SDA I tried to guard my daughter from that type thinking, and stressed that when the time came God would never leave us and would take care of us no matter what happened. I just find it impossible to believe that the majority of SDAs over the age of 40 (minimum) could honestly say they didn't have this pounded into them somewhere, if not at home then at SDA school, or Sabbath school, or Pathfinders...... They must be kidding themselves! | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 2165 Registered: 11-2002 |
That entire idea of the Sunday laws has so many holes in it it's like a strainer. Some SDA's will say it is worldwide. Some will say only the US and some will say it's the US and Europe. Even when I was a little girl and this balogna would arise in the family discussions I would say things like, "Then why don't we just move to Brazil (or whatever South American struck my fancy at the time as I was and still am addicted to National Geographic)?" i just never could "get it". We must have dozens of those Jan Marcussian "National Sunday Law" books around. They are so far out. The only thing I can think of to be motoviating that man is that at 39 cents each and he says he's sold many thousands then he's making a hefty profit off those books. In my community is a lady who identifies herself as Historical Adventist. I refer to her as Hysterical Adventist. She eats at the local charity and is on public assistance and spends oodles of her meger money on that National Sunday Law book which she leaves around in the community at the laundrymats, the busstops, etc. I see them in the trash. It is extremely sad. It's just such an incredibly stupid doctrine and no where in the entire Bible can anyone even with a good immagination come to a Sunday Law happening as a prelude to Jesus's next coming. | ||
| Pheeki Registered user Username: Pheeki Post Number: 776 Registered: 1-2003 |
Carol 2, Violet and Susan 2 (By the way Susan...I think you may be the only Susan now...I haven't seen a Susan 1 here), These were people on CARM who swear up and down my testimony is not true. One of them however was not raised SDA, so he can't talk! Some of the others claimed I was lying...why? Cause it makes SDAism sound so cultish, like the Davidians. When I was in grade school...we all used to think Jesus would come in 1980. We just knew the next president would be "the one" who ushered in the Sunday laws. We knew we would never get to get married or have children...what a fatalistic way to grow up... makes you not even want to try to do anything. Why get good grades? Why try to eat healthy? All the things we were told to do didn't make sense if we were never going to grow up! Know what I mean? | ||
| Violet Registered user Username: Violet Post Number: 344 Registered: 2-2001 |
Pheeki, I remember when I use to pray that Jesus would wait to come until I could be married and have a child. We have talked on another thread about the tape 'Now" that was role played about a family fleeing to the mountains. One of the parents chose not to go so the young person went with another family (if my memory serves me well). I remember listening to that tape in Bible class and the intensity of thinking about going through it all still brings chills to my mind. | ||
| Nixon Registered user Username: Nixon Post Number: 3 Registered: 3-2006 |
RE; THE 'COMING SUNDAY LAW.' THIS IDEA IS A HOAX. A 'SUNDAY LAW' WILL NEVER BE PASSED IN THE UNITED STATES FOR THE SIMPLE REASON THAT IT WOULD 'ESTABLISH' THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION OVER JUDAISM OR ISLAM. FOR ONCE, THAT IS TRULY AGAINST THE U.S. CONSTITUTION. IN ADDITION, THE COMMON SUNDAY CHRISTIANS IN THE US, PLUS THE GENERAL POPULATION, WOULD NEVER PUT UP WITH A SUNDAY CLOSING LAW. FAR TOO MANY WORKING PEOPLE DO THEIR SHOPPING, ETC. ON THAT DAY. THE U.S. SUPREME COURT WOULD RULE AGAINST SUCH A LAW, IN A NEW YORK MINUTE, EVEN IF IT WERE PASSED BY THE CONGRESS AND SIGNED INTO LAW BY THE PRESIDENT. ON TOP OF THAT FACT, NO ONE HAS EVER EXPLAINED TO ME JUST HOW A SUNDAY 'LAW' WOULD AFFECT ANY PERSON WHO OBSERVES THE 7th DAY SABBATH. IT SHOULD NOT AFFECT ANY SABBATH KEEPER IN ANY WAY. THE ENTIRE IDEA IS RIDICULOUS. I FIRST READ ABOUT A PROPOSED SUNDAY LAW IN URIAH SMTH'S BOOK 'DANIEL AND THE REVELATION OVER 38 YEARS AGO JUST BEFORE SUBMITTING (joining) TO THE THRALLDOM (ECONOMIC AND OTHERWISE) OF THE SDA CHURCH. I DID NOT BELIEVE SUCH A THING AT THAT TIME AND DO NOT NOW. SUCH AN IDEA IS UTTERLY RICICULOUS. I AM AWARE OF THE SO CALLED 'SUNDAY CONTROVERSY' GOING ON IN ENGLAND AT THE PRESENT TIME. THAT DISCUSSION CENTERS ON PEOPLE WORKING ON SUNDAY. THE REASON IS THAT MANY BRITONS ARE FORCED TO WORK ON SUNDAY IN ORDER TO KEEP THEIR JOBS. THUS THEY DO NOT HAVE TIME OFF WITH THIER FAMILIES. THAT IS THE BIG OBJECTION TO FORCING PEOPLE TO WORK ON SUNDAY OVER THERE. I BELIEVE THE GENERAL CONF. OF SDA'S MAY ATTEMPT TO 'MAKE A BIG THING' OUT OF THIS SITUATION. I KNOW THERE ARE PEOPLE IN THE US WHO ALSO ARE FORCED TO WORK ON SUNDAYS. HOWEVER, U.S. LAW PROTECTS ANY PERSON WHO WISHES TO NOT WORK ON SATURDAY OR SUNDAY FOR RELIGOUS REASONS. THOSE POOR PEOPLE TRAPPED IN THE COILS OF SDA FALSE DOCTRINE AND BELIEF WILL WAIT IN VAIN, BUT PROBABLY NOISY EXPECTATION FOR 100 YEARS FOR A 'SUNDAY LAW.' IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN. NIXON | ||
| Cathy2 Registered user Username: Cathy2 Post Number: 82 Registered: 2-2006 |
I forgot where I read the article (by an ex-SDA), but it pointed out that *economically* a Sunday Law would not, at all, be feasible for major reasons. It would create a major impact and mess, economically, in the USA, let alone around the globe (remember, Ellen wrote that it would be global, in the GC). If I ever run across the article, again, I'll post it. I just read it this year. Money is the system of the world. "The love of money is the root of all evil" (sorry, I do not know the verse reference in the NT) No one, 'important', is going to voluntarily lose their 'rice bowls' for such a law. In our multi-cultural, politically correct climate, if 'they' were to do such a ludicrous thing, they would be more inclined to create a Holy Weekend--Friday off for the Muslims, Saturday off for the Jews and Sunday off for the Christians. (Hindus and Bhudhists don't care) "Lets be fair and respect everybody, now." Interfaith is the world fad. I can't see it. SDA's reality is grounded in Ellen White. They resist true reality checks because of the 'programming' and false spirit. We were raised to sub-consciously, self-righteously like the dramatic plot--with Adventist 'heros' (martyrs)-- as SDA children. (yet scared by it, too.) SDA adults compartementalize this dramatic plot, while being sensible in other aspects of daily livng and working, but cannot see it. i.e. not cognitively processing--thinking through-- the economic chaos (the article pointed out), which would occur from such a major law in society's life. Actually, within Christinity, the trend is towards the law and Sabbath-keeping, and other Jewish rituals and stuff. To SDA's, this could be the 'Latter Rain' of the Holy Spirit, Ellen predicted, which is supposed to happen just before 'The End'; then bla, bla, bla. My dad has received Jan Marcussen's (sp? This is the correct man, right?)extreme Sunday Law material for years. He tried to give it to my teenage son last year. S. politely took it, then threw it away. When I was 19 y/o (1981), I moved to Texas, where they had Blue Laws still on the books. In the grocery stores, on Sunday, there were products and aisles roped off, so you could not buy certain things. I was shocked and a bit awed, even--still a nominal SDA--believing that a Sunday Law was completely feasible. It helped convince me to remain trying to be an SDA for a few more years, but I couldn't hack it--be good enough (so I just felt more guilty and ashamed about myself; and worried about end times). Now, I know that the southern states, who still retain such archaic Blue Laws (and other laws), are only in the Bible Belt; just slow about updating from the 19th century into the 21st. In Ellen's day, there was a segment of political talk about a National Sunday Law, but it got shot out of the saddle. The majority of Americans had more sense and knew our Constitution. She made it into doctrine for the glory of SDA's--the elites of God--and vindication/persecution for herself and others, who had been wrong in 1844 and theologically challenged ever since. "God said it"--through Ellen--so SDA's could never change the doctrine no matter how out-dated. (Very similar to JW's and Mormon smoke and mirrors, when they turn out wrong) It's like being born into a mental maze with no exit, all corners, leading nowhere. The only way out is for God to break down the wall and grab one out of one's wandering dark fog into light, air and reality. Among all the great, profound gifts of himself, Jesus Christ gives us common sense and his own realism, too. Just thoughts. Cathy | ||
| Belvalew Registered user Username: Belvalew Post Number: 1000 Registered: 7-2004 |
I've said it before, and here it is again. The Internet Society wouldn't stand for a Sunday Law for a minute. The internet is used for everything, but basically is a commercial enterprise, and when you are on the net, there is no specific time except the time when your order is date-stamped. Forget trying to figure out when days begin and end if you live in the polar regions. You cannot shut down the great commercial machinery that now rolls 24/7. People are making fortunes while selling on the internet. They won't stand for losing 24 hours every week. That's extremely valuable time that cannot be made up! | ||
| Zjason Registered user Username: Zjason Post Number: 39 Registered: 11-2005 |
I think it was a fellow named Morris Venden that speculated on how a sunday law would come about in this day. He figured there would have to be a cataclysmic chain of events that would threaten to devastate the world, and then finally some angel of light would finally appear and tell everyone what they had to do to stop the destruction. Worship on Sunday. So I suppose that's the thing that some sabbath keepers are thinking? | ||
| Jackob Registered user Username: Jackob Post Number: 143 Registered: 7-2005  |
He's name is Marvin Moore. I read his book from ATI library, and the idea is that this cataclismic event will motivate the americans to evaluate their "God bless America", their vision about themselves being a "choosen people", which is derived from the first fathers of the nations, of puritan origins, who envisioned themselves and the new nation as the "new Israel". This will resurrect the old covenant idea of the course of God. And consequently the nation will condemn those who will break the law of God breaking the Sabbath. | ||
| Zjason Registered user Username: Zjason Post Number: 40 Registered: 11-2005 |
Yes, you are correct. Crisis of the End Times, I believe it was. When I read it a number of years ago, it gave me the willies. |
