Post Number: 13585
|Posted on Wednesday, April 11, 2012 - 5:21 pm: || |
I'm working on commentary for the Sabbath School lesson for April 21. The Teachers' Comments, on page 37 of the Teachers' quarterly, has an introductory exercise to help the class members appreciate that the spiritual gifts are a "direct endowment from the Holy Spirit to the body of Christ". It directs the teacher to read and discuss the following (quoted right out of page 37):
Traveling from the East, the Magi came bearing royal gifts for the new- born Prince of Peace. Gold. Frankincense. Myrrh. Kingly gifts from kingly sages (Matt. 2:11).
For 2,000 years, this story has repeated itself in the life of every believer when he or she is born again by grace through faith into God’s “royal priesthood” (1 Pet. 2:9). Summoned from the darkness of unbelief, these royal priest-kings now minister to the High Priest and sovereign God against whom they once rebelled. As in the original story, there are kings who make a journey—kings who bring gifts in honor of a newborn’s life. But this time the gifts are as heavenly and eternal as the Kings who bear them—gifts of mercy, healing, teaching, prophecy, and leadership.
Gold fluctuates in value. Frankincense and myrrh lose potency with time. But the spiritual gifts of the Three wise and eternal Kings of heaven never lose value. Royal gifts from royal Kings, given to equip the royal priesthood of all believers to save souls.
Discuss: What does it mean to belong to a “royal priesthood” of believers? In what way should that influence how we live out our lives? How does it make you feel, knowing that God the Father and the Son, through the Person of the Holy Spirit, come to us at our new birth (just as the wise men of the East came to Jesus at His birth) to bestow the riches of heaven upon us? How should this attitude influence our reverence for God and our appreciation for His spiritual gifts?
I have never seen the Adventist tri-theism so blatantly expressed to the "common" member!! Moreover, the discussion question has the three gods bringing gifts to new believers like the magi brought gifts to Jesus! The Adventist "god" serves the "new believer" as if he is a king deserving of god's reverence and worship!!!
This is no accident. This IS Adventism. This passage completely reveals the fact that they do not believe in the Christian Trinity, and it totally shows that man, not God, is their ultimate "value" in the universe! God honors MAN!! And by inference based on their own comparison, baby Jesus was just a man...
But of course, that's how we learned about Him. We were just told He was "god".
Post Number: 976
|Posted on Wednesday, April 11, 2012 - 5:28 pm: || |
That little SDA snippet was so poorly written that I actually had a hard time following it. But yes, now that I follow it, it's blatant tritheism.
Also, "how does it make you feel"? I hate "how does this make you feel" questions. Why does it matter how something makes me feel? The question is, what is true?
Post Number: 3910
|Posted on Wednesday, April 11, 2012 - 6:54 pm: || |
Wow, that is very blatant!
I do have one other quote, on my website, where they say "Kings." It's from an article by Dr. Norman Gulley in the Fall 2003 Journal of the Adventist Theological Society, entitled "A Biblical Evaluation of Islamic and Catholic Soteriology":
[...] "The Koran says God is 'too high' for any partners (like Christ and the Holy Spirit) to be with Him.10 In fact, God curses those who think Christ is the Son of God, for there is only One God.11 [...]
"If Mary really was the Queen of Heaven, she would be an addition to the Kings, the royal three of the Trinity. In fact, if she is able to hear the prayers of believers around the world, and be present with them in life, represent them to the Son, and help them at the moment of death, and lead them to Jesus, then she must have the gift of omnipresence that is a prerogative of God alone. Mary would have to be divine to be able to do what Catholic theology says she does. [...]
[...] Clearly the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, divine authors of salvation, are the only Ones able to help sinners. No human sinner can contribute anything.
"One could argue that Moslems pray directly to Allah, whereas Catholics pray indirectly through Mary and the saints allegedly interceding for them. Nevertheless, this doesn't change their works oriented ways to merit salvation. One could also argue that belief in a Trinity among Catholics is better than belief in only one God among Moslems. But this doesn't change the fact that either the Three or the One do not gift salvation." (http://www.atsjats.org/publication_file.php?pub_id=34&journal=1&type=pdf)
Like the SDA gods do "gift" salvation??
There is too much wrong with those excerpts to even unpack it all...
(Message edited by Jeremy on April 11, 2012)
Post Number: 7883
|Posted on Wednesday, April 11, 2012 - 7:46 pm: || |
Shoot, if you all have trouble un packing this stuff, think of the trouble me and Leigh Ann have un packing it!
Post Number: 13586
|Posted on Wednesday, April 11, 2012 - 9:15 pm: || |
Jeremy, good grief! That's blatant! So much confusion...so much unbelief.
They totally do not believe in the One True God. They have a different god and a different jesus.
Post Number: 2065
|Posted on Thursday, April 12, 2012 - 6:16 am: || |
River, I was thinking the same thing.
Glad you can decipher the rigmarole, Formers. The author of confusion strikes again!
Post Number: 1772
|Posted on Thursday, April 12, 2012 - 6:31 am: || |
Confusion is the underlying secret. If you can't make sense of it, you can't prove it wrong. Therefore, your questions would be answered if you were only:
b) spending more time study Scripture
c) more spiritual so God would grant the insight
The confusion keeps people trapped. And it keeps the real nature of SDAism hidden from Christian world.
Post Number: 2552
|Posted on Thursday, April 12, 2012 - 5:45 pm: || |
The article said that God"come[s] to us at our new birth..." but SDAs don't believe in a new birth - not the Bible way. When I was an Adventist, it was just: believe the fundamentals including Ellen White, get baptized, keep asking God to forgive your sins and keep pushing out our sins by Jesus power. If we did all that, then we were supposed to have a fair shake at being saved in the end. No certainty of being saved - not a bit, despite what the Bible says!
Post Number: 30
|Posted on Thursday, April 12, 2012 - 9:01 pm: || |
That's the kind of stuff that used to make me think....huh? Very hard to follow.
Post Number: 1123
|Posted on Thursday, April 12, 2012 - 10:08 pm: || |
I had to read the quarterly quote several times--it sounded like gobbledygook.
OK, in Matthew, the magi (humans) came bearing gifts to the Baby (God the Son)...so how is this comparison valid?
I used to think, as a SDA, "Well, a bunch of men with impressive credentials and education would have caught any error, so there's something wrong with MY thinking if I don't understand this doctrine/teaching!"
It's so cool now--the Holy Spirit is not in the business of gobbledygook! Or confusion.
Post Number: 79
|Posted on Friday, April 13, 2012 - 8:44 am: || |
5 “Every word of God is flawless;
he is a shield to those who take refuge in him.
6 Do not add to his words,
or he will rebuke you and prove you a liar.
Post Number: 13593
|Posted on Friday, April 13, 2012 - 1:29 pm: || |
Well, Nowisee, your insight is exactly the issue. How is this comparison valid?
The fact that they have "three Kings" (god) bringing gifts of homage to new "believers" really does elevate the believer to a state that's actually above god. It certainly places the "believers" on a par with Jesus--God's child who received gifts of honor from royalty.
The heresy here is horrific, if you think about it. People who "believe" what Adventism teaches about Jesus and god are elevated (sorta like Jesus was once supposedly elevated) to a position of honor next to god.
This scenario, which most Adventists wouldn't understand enough to actually articulate, is nevertheless what the Adventist view of God leads to. He is obligated to US; in the SDA worldview, we are not obligated to God. He is obligated to US, to honor and protect our supposed free will, to give us every advantage, to exalt us...and He is dependent upon us to vindicate him and reveal his true nature.
We, the creatures, are to reveal his nature.
This belief is only a twist away from the Mormon belief that "as God once was, we are; as God is, we can become." Or maybe it's really not even a twist away from that Mormon belief...?
This scenario of three gods bearing gifts of god's power to "new believers" is not the fevered rambling of a crazed individual. This is actually Adventism. This is the official quarterly, and Clifford Goldstein is the editor. This is NO mistake. It is "hidden" in the teacher's section, and some teachers may not use it at all. But it is there, and it is positioned in such a way that it will be introduced subtly but organically: as the focus of a class discussion.
Do you remember how many beliefs we cemented in our heads as Adventists not because we actually LEARNED them from a textbook but because a teacher or SS leader or class discussion facilitator drummed certain ideas into us during the course of those endless philosophical discussions we thought were religious exchanges?
This is no accident. It is intentional, and it is deeply, deeply heretical. It is thoroughly Adventist...and it is related to the heresies of other pseudo-Christian cults.
Ask yourself where these ideas originated...
Post Number: 3917
|Posted on Friday, April 13, 2012 - 5:43 pm: || |
Also, notice how they say: "How does it make you feel, knowing that God the Father and the Son, through the Person of the Holy Spirit, come to us at our new birth..."
They have to say "through the Person of the Holy Spirit" because they don't believe that the "Father" and the "Son" actually "come to us" (not "indwell" notice!) at our new birth, since they have physical bodies and Jesus forever gave up any omnipresence that he may have once had!
So actually only one god comes to us--hmmm, if they're not careful they might start teaching monotheism!
Post Number: 2558
|Posted on Saturday, April 14, 2012 - 10:58 am: || |
Shelley; it was hard for me to follow too. Perhaps the SDA leadership intentionally makes it hard to follow, so that the ordinary person in the pew will simply think it's lofty stuff that it takes years of education at an SDA university to learn!
It's sad how they give lip service to the gospel - ["Jesus died and rose so that I can live, when I accept Him"] - and then completely undermine it by saying that the person themselves has to do part of the work/keep striving in order to be saved.