Post Number: 175
|Posted on Tuesday, June 05, 2012 - 6:37 pm: || |
Okay, so I was just discussing this with C2V8, and it just made me all fired up. As a young Adventist I used to get so upset that Jesus said all we had to do was believe in Him, and I could never understand why the New Testament didn't make it clearer that you also have to keep the Sabbath! It's like this secret test, and it just wasn't fair. The Bible says to believe on Jesus, but in order to have the real truth, you have to play a puzzle game with the scriptures or be lucky enough to have someone tell you about Ellen White. I really did believe, though, that if someone carefully studied the scriptures, they would become Adventist, too. I never got around to studying it myself in the scriptures, but people I loved did! If my grandmother can read the Bible everyday and still be an Adventist, then well, that's a pretty good testimony to it's truth, isn't it?
What I realized tonight that it's not just a lie, it's making God into a liar! God said that salvation is a free gift through the sacrifice of Jesus, and saying that He didn't really mean it, and that you really have to keep the Sabbath first and all sorts of other stuff--UGH! It makes God into a liar! And that's a really big deal.
Post Number: 54
|Posted on Tuesday, June 05, 2012 - 7:10 pm: || |
Wow. I never thought about it like that. Just...wow.
Post Number: 176
|Posted on Tuesday, June 05, 2012 - 7:13 pm: || |
(I also can't believe that I used it's instead of its up there. I really do know the difference. Promise.)
Post Number: 13749
|Posted on Wednesday, June 06, 2012 - 2:28 pm: || |
So, so true, Katarain. EGW called God a "liar", and because of her assessment of God, we learned that when He worked, the ends justified the means. He was a "moral relativist".
For example, EGW said that God held His hand over the mistake in William Miller's 1843 chart, when he predicted that Jesus would return in 1843. Oops!! Miscalculation--he was REALLY going to return in 1844!
EGW said God held His hand over that mistake so people would "get ready"!! In other words, God participated in a deception in order to manipulate humans into fearfully getting ready for Him.
Moreover, Adventists teach that the parable of Lazarus and the rich man is "just a parable", that those people weren't really in torment and in Abraham's bosom.
I'll never forget my SHOCK when our pastor said in response to our dismissive, Oh, that's just a parable... "Jesus would never tell an untruth to teach a truth."
Wow. I realized as I pondered that statement that I had believed Jesus would use a common misperception to teach an overarching truth because I had truly believed EGW when she said God held His hand over that mistake. I had learned from youngest childhood that for God, the ends justify the means, and He would practice deception if necessary to accomplish His will.
Scripture tells us (Numbers 23:19) that God cannot lie.
Adventism totally taught us that God has the prerogative to deceive, and that He practices that prerogative when He wishes.
Post Number: 185
|Posted on Wednesday, June 06, 2012 - 6:56 pm: || |
You're right! She did it over and over!
Post Number: 2096
|Posted on Thursday, June 07, 2012 - 7:35 am: || |
So according to Ellen White's teaching, God purposely deceived his people, Jesus used an untruth to teach a truth AND Jesus could have sinned as well. Oh yeah, and he has to pour through "the books" just to see who is safe to save.
They sound like regular everyday people to me.
Post Number: 15
|Posted on Thursday, June 07, 2012 - 7:49 am: || |
So perhaps this is why SDA's feel it is justified to practice deception in their evangalism--because EGW taught that God did this.
Post Number: 225
|Posted on Thursday, June 07, 2012 - 8:35 am: || |
Your post #2096 brought back something I heard as a child...
"...he's making a list, he's checking it twice,
Gonna find out who's naughty or nice..."
In that context I learned that that kind of a person can be manipulated by promises to be good and cramming lots of good behaviour in between Thanksgiving and December 25th.
Now I serve a God who "knows" me from the foundations of the world and doesn't need to run a forensic audit to see if I.m safe to save.
"No bamboozalment here..."
He doesn't lie to me and I don't pretend with Him.
What a relief to be liberated from a culture of lies and pretense.
Thanks for your posts Grace_alone, Colleen and Katarian.
Post Number: 226
|Posted on Thursday, June 07, 2012 - 8:42 am: || |
Those lyrics where in the setting of "His" soon arrival or coming to town.
Those words were designed to manipulate behaviors and reinforce the power of the authority figures...
Cult theology is much more invested in empowering authority figures or structures than in supporting the fundamental "coming together of God and man", - our embracing of God's finished work for us.
Post Number: 2097
|Posted on Thursday, June 07, 2012 - 9:44 am: || |
Paul, that's what you call "indoctrinate and protect". Fear and manipulation is how the SDA system "protects" it's members.
It's also why there's an SDA school system, food products, ABC Stores, etc. Creates a nice insulated atmosphere apart from apostate mainstream churches (i.e. Babylon).
I often wonder if SDA's actually realize that's what's going on, or if they think all churches are that way?
Post Number: 2653
|Posted on Thursday, June 07, 2012 - 11:32 am: || |
This reminds me of an SDA camp meeting I attended years ago in California (Redwoods camp meeting.) I went into the little ABC store they had set up and inside were a whole bunch of camp meeting attendees milling about and shopping. Even back then as an SDA, I was surprised to see the looks of sad desperation on the overwhelming majority of those faces.
Now it's clear to me why that expression was on their faces. No way in Adventism can the members obtain any assurance of salvation. That's impossible if they know and believe the SDA doctrines. It grieves me even now thinking back to how those faces looked.
Post Number: 13764
|Posted on Monday, June 11, 2012 - 12:56 pm: || |
Goodday--you are exactly right. Adventists believe it's OK to practice little deceptions (well, BIG ones) in their evangelism because God Himself supposedly did the same. The end justifies the means.