Post Number: 665
|Posted on Sunday, September 23, 2012 - 2:54 pm: || |
"Ladies and gentlemean, lets ring him in…bugle please…now the drums… there he stands, 30 foot tall! I give you Mr. PRIDE himself. Look at him, he’s so tall he stands between God and us and the gifts we so desire.
My church speaks in tongues!
My church don’t speak in tongues!
Pride permeates the churches, all those little power struggles going on, so subtle and deeply hidden we don’t even know we are doing it.
Pride destroys our chances of loving others and God can’t trust us with the gifts much because of it.
We become so enamored with ourselves and what 'we' are 'doing' that we put what God has already done in second place.
(Message edited by jonvil on September 23, 2012)
Post Number: 1959
|Posted on Sunday, September 23, 2012 - 10:50 pm: || |
I think you have captured what Paul is saying in I Cor 12-14 very well in your words.
Gifts are for God's glory, not ours.
Thanks for your insights. And I don't think I was suggesting that Spiritual gifts should be viewed with apathy, if it came across that way it was certainly not my intent. My point was only that we should desire the Spiritual gifts that He gives us rather than demanding the ones that we want. And who knows, except Him, what gift He may have in store for us in the morning.
Post Number: 13987
|Posted on Sunday, September 23, 2012 - 11:23 pm: || |
Yes, I agree. Moreover, my post above was not specifically intended to address "tongues". I'm more concerned that so many formers are veering toward the "ditches" on both sides of the gospel road. The problem so many have in accepting and embracing the long, ordinary process of living the mundane ins and outs of life in submission to God's word and the teaching of His Spirit is what has me so concerned.
We can't control or manage the gospel. We can only surrender to it's Author. The Lord Jesus IS our Sabbath rest, and our sanctification, and our righteousness, and our power...we experience victory and power and peace as we trust the Lord Jesus and His promises and take His word seriously.
There is no substitute for submitting to God's word and to trusting Him. We can't manipulate Him to give us power; we can't "own" the gifts and make them ours (because He gives them); we can't understand the gospel by quantifying HOW it works.
We can only receive it and trust His word. He is faithful to do in us what He promises...He finishes what He begins (Phil 1:6)
Post Number: 8028
|Posted on Monday, September 24, 2012 - 7:29 am: || |
I myself agree with you completely Colleen, I have been deeply concerned for quite some time but I don't know exactly how to put it in words without being vague.
These treads, as a general rule, do take on a mind of their own, but I think your post was understood.
Your sentence "But the minute we try to get direct revelation from Him instead of submitting to His word and asking Him to reveal Himself and His will to us, we set ourselves up for exactly what we left: extra-bibical revelation."
That captures it quite well I think.
Let me ask you a question. Do you think the problems may lay in the former not giving themselves the time that it takes to process out of Adventism?
I seem to remember you saying that it takes about 5 years to process out, is that correct?
I think perhaps taking the time to process out before making any sudden changes might be in order, because having spent a lifetime in an upside down society, giving one self time to re-orient might help the former to avoid falling into those ditches.
Is that what you meant by 'the long, ordinary process of living the mundane ins and outs'?
If my thinking is right, then perhaps we should stress more about taking the time to process out and that may be of help if we can get people to realize the full impact of that.
I'll try to give an example: I have a son who, due to the umbilical cord being wrapped around his neck at birth, his thinking is just shy of left.
He bought himself a sail boat (Having never owned a boat in his life, he only sailed with me a little bit as a kid)and in a month he considers himself an experienced sailor.
He decided to take his sail boat over the Columbia river bar, which is the most dangerous bar in the world, and sail it down the coast.
He ended up losing his mast and I had to worry and pray and leave it too God that he wouldn't lose his life out there.
I tried to tell him, "Son, you are not an experienced sailor, but he would not, or could not, whatever was the case, listen to what I was telling him.
It may be the same way with some formers, in order to sail the waters of all the beliefs out here, they need to take time to learn the ropes and the sails (Bible) before actually putting to Sea.
P.S. The again maybe I'm talking too much instead of helping.
Post Number: 645
|Posted on Monday, September 24, 2012 - 9:08 am: || |
I think that you are HELPING~! Not talking to much! Your point is well made~
I also think, that a Former should be in Bible Study with people who are "seasoned" believers that use the Bible and the Bible only for studying GOD's WORD!
A "Former" has a much better chance of "processing" out, if they use this kind of guidance. There are not as many "ditches"!
GOD desires His children to gather together for study and prayer, to support one another. I do not think being a "Lone Ranger" Christian is the way to travel the road out of adventism!
Post Number: 433
|Posted on Monday, September 24, 2012 - 9:28 am: || |
I agree about taking time, & about being in a bible study that is based on God's Word alone. I posted this on another forum & it seems relevant here too.
This takes more time but it answered questions for me. Things came clear to me in reading thru the bible with the questions:
1) Is Jesus my sabbath rest or is the day my rest?
2) What is God's rest according to His Word in the bible?
3) If Moses & the prophets wrote about Jesus, is the bible about Jesus from beginning to end, what does it tell me about Him?
4) Why do the first 6 days of creation follow the pattern "and the evening & the morning were . . ." but the 7th day does not say that? In the light of the other questions what does this tell me?
Whatever we say is what we say God says. It is still not in the context of the whole word of God to another person. We may have gotten it that way, but it is our word against some other voice & word.
SDAism breeds this fear, which is not from God. He is ok with our questioning: I love James 1:5 in the NLT - "If you need wisdom, ask our generous God, and he will give it to you. He will not rebuke you for asking."
Encourage this process - it counters the way we were raised & taught in sdaism.
It took a couple of years & several trips thru the bible for my questions to be answered. The bonus is that God both showed me, & confirmed to me the answers to my questions. Because it was a personal venture, & I wrote scriptures in my journal, I have greater retention.
I have been in a non-denom bible study like Mjcmcook recommends for 15 years, but always believed I had 'the truth' to share with them. Studying individual bible books did not add up to having the bible in total context.
I have not been in church anywhere since 2004. Maybe for me, the internet has kept me from being a Lone Ranger Christian as I have traveled out, along with that bible study group.
Post Number: 585
|Posted on Monday, September 24, 2012 - 5:14 pm: || |
River, I believe you are right! Processesing my former world view with FAF teachers (not just anyone-- it had to be bible teaching people who understood Adventism and who submit to God's word), as well as consistent bible study under bible teaching pastors (not topical preachers) has changed my life and helped me avert several theological desasters!
Post Number: 13988
|Posted on Monday, September 24, 2012 - 11:10 pm: || |
River, I think you've summed it up and understood me. Yes, I do believe we who leave Adventism have to be willing to do the work of processing our Adventism and relearning our worldview. And as Free2dance says, it requires both study with people who understand Adventism and study with solid Christian Bible teachers who teach contextually and inductively.
We expect people who have been rescued from "serious cults" like the Moonies or Heaven's Gate or some such to have to be deprogrammed, but we tend not to think about the time and teaching required to deprogram from Adventism--or even from Mormonism or JW-ism or Christian Science. We can expect the process to take at least two to five years...and the more we involve ourselves with Christian Bible teaching and the more we admit we have to process our Adventism, the faster the process goes. It lingers long if we think it's just a matter of straightening out a few doctrinal differences.
We really have to commit to Scripture being our only authority, and we have to trust the Lord Jesus to guide our study and to make His word come alive in us.
Post Number: 646
|Posted on Tuesday, September 25, 2012 - 6:43 am: || |
In My Opinion, adventism is an all consuming "fire" in a person's life~ wrecking havoc on the body, soul and Spirit~ this "fire" is not quenched in a vacuum!
Post Number: 13990
|Posted on Tuesday, September 25, 2012 - 11:53 am: || |
Hmmm. Well said, MJ.
Post Number: 8032
|Posted on Tuesday, September 25, 2012 - 4:33 pm: || |
Hebrews 12:29 For our God is a consuming fire.
Post Number: 647
|Posted on Tuesday, September 25, 2012 - 4:46 pm: || |
What if said, instead, like the "fires" of H--L?!
Post Number: 8033
|Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2012 - 4:35 am: || |