Post Number: 26
|Posted on Wednesday, April 02, 2014 - 12:37 pm: || |
We all know that SDAs accuse other Christians for "changing days and times", ie for changing Saturday into Sunday. And ironically enough, these other Christians actually changed NOTHING. It's SDAs who changed EVERYTHING. Follow me on this please. It is very easy to understand, as a matter of fact.
1. They accuse Christians for changing the seventh day into first. They say (and they are ready to die for it) that we switched the days, and that Sunday is now our day of rest instead of Saturday.
But they are just shortsighted. Ask any non-SDA Christian, what is Sunday? Is it a day of the rest? In ANY non-SDA church? No, Sunday is NOT the day of the rest. Sunday is day of resurrection of the Lord, the day of communion and the day of worship (one of seven). It is not a day of the rest. Never was, and never will be.
So, how could we ever change the day of the rest from Saturday to Sunday when Sunday is not the day of the rest?
2. Now, the interesting part. What is SATURDAY in Old Testament tradition, as defined by God Himself in the Old Testament? Is it a day of the rest, or a day of worship? It is a day of the rest. Clear, cannot get any clearer than that.
Now, when was the day of WORSHIP in the Old Testament? On Saturday? Well, NOT ONLY on Saturday. The day of worship in the OT was EVERY DAY of the week. Jews burnt their sacrifices TWICE A DAY, actually. EVERY DAY. Including Saturday. But only Saturday was the day of the rest. No special worship was ever supposed to take place on Saturday. Just worship as on any other day of the week.
Now, to the point. When do adventists worship? Every day? NO! They worship ONLY on Saturday! Although they have to worship EVERY DAY and to REST on Saturday. No, they worship only on Saturday.
They actually changed the seventh day from the day of rest into a day of worship. And the remaining six days INTENDED AND COMMANDED BY GOD FOR WORSHIP, they are simply DROPPED by SDAs.
While on the other hand, all mainstream Christian churches (Orthodox, Catholic or Protestant) they also worship (in church) EVERY DAY. There is a SPECIAL mass or liturgy on Sunday, to celebrate the resurrection of Christ, but normally, all these churches worship EVERY DAY, and moreover, TWICE A DAY (morning and evening, ereb and boquer) as intended and commanded by God in the Old Testament already.
It's SDAs who changed the Saturday from the day of Sabbath into day of worship. It is SDAs who simply cancelled and dropped the remaining six days reserved for WORSHIPPING in the community. Not the other Christians. Other Christians NEVER accepted ANY OTHER day of the rest (there is no such day in Christianity AT ALL), they never introduced any day of rest, and they actually obey God who commanded to be worshipped by His church EVERY DAY twice a day.
Now, there is a saying in my country which says: When you dig a grave for someone else, you can be sure that YOU will fall into it!
(Message edited by polgarahh on April 02, 2014)
Post Number: 27
|Posted on Wednesday, April 02, 2014 - 1:17 pm: || |
I wanted to point out (sorry for my bad English), that SDAs accuse us for changing the day of rest, which is not true.
All they can say about us, is that we ABANDONED weekly Sabbath (we simply don't have it any more, since our Rest is in Christ).
However, we can in turn say that the ABOLISHED SIX DAYS OF WORSHIP (twelve worships a week) which are commanded by God to be days of worship.
Post Number: 14774
|Posted on Wednesday, April 02, 2014 - 3:36 pm: || |
Very good point, Polgarahh. Leviticus 23, the chapter that describes how to observe all the feast days God gave, does identify Sabbath as both a day of rest and of holy convocation:
“Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day is a Sabbath of solemn rest, a holy convocation. You shall do no work. It is a Sabbath to the LORD in all your dwelling places.
(Leviticus 23:3 ESV)
Nevertheless, it was a day of rest on which no work was to be done. Both the requirements of rest and of holy convocation were the markers of all the solemn feast days of Israel.
Your point that Adventists completely ignore the fact that Sunday was never a day of rest and that they've effectively removed six days of the week as belonging to God (remember that Sabbath School song, "1-2-3-4-5-6 for us…the seventh is for Jesus"?) is very good.
In the new covenant, there is NO division of days between sacred and secular. All belong to God.
Such a good point!
Post Number: 3321
|Posted on Wednesday, April 02, 2014 - 4:10 pm: || |
I'm SOOO glad that Jesus is our REST now!
Post Number: 28
|Posted on Thursday, April 03, 2014 - 7:53 am: || |
I am glad you understood my point, Colleen. My English is a bit sluggish. I understand everything, but the difference between my native languages (Serbian and German) are too great for me to be able to make everythin nice and clear as many of you here.
It was just a thought I got yesterday. I meet one SDA I knew and we discussed about this topic. He immediately started to accuse me for accepting the CHANGED day of rest. I have no idea where this particular idea came from, but I answered: It were you, actually, who changed the day(s) of worship from seven a week to once a week.
He left the discussion immediately. He was speechless. I just hope and pray that this small worm of doubt will continue to work in his head and that he will at least try to find the answers to my questions. Not because of me, I don't need those answers, but he does, and desperately, as a matter of fact.
(Message edited by polgarahh on April 03, 2014)
Post Number: 5
|Posted on Thursday, April 03, 2014 - 10:08 pm: || |
Your main counter-point is well-made. In fact, any accusation usually puts people on the defensive, so your counter-accusation was delightful to read. I am not much of a debater, but one thing I learned is that often times, when someone is critical of you, they are guilty of something similar. That is, if the SDA claim we changed the day, then the real likelihood is that they changed the day.
Therefore you are inexcusable, O man, whoever you are who judge, for in whatever you judge another you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things. Ro 2:1, NKJV
Your final apothegm about digging a grave supports this observation.
So, it was wise for you to consider the past and see who changed what and when. Just to provide a little more background information to that question, there were Seventh Day Baptists before there were Seventh Day Adventists. When the Adventists adopted Sabbatarianism, it was because in the centuries prior, the Reformed churches in America and Europe (and to come extent, the Catholic Church) were advocating a sort of Sabbath-keeping on Sunday. They called Sunday the “Christian Sabbath.” This is the historical birthplace of modern seventh-day Sabbatarianism. The thinking behind this is that if the Fourth Commandment informs us how to observe Sunday, AND there is no statement in the New Testament specifically annulling the Sabbath, then perhaps we should still be worshipping on Saturday. As you noticed, there are several problems with this line of thinking.
The trend in modern Christianity is away from Sunday Sabbatarianism, so most Evangelical Christians do not practice a ritual rest on Sunday. However, there are still many Reformed congregations that view Sunday as a day of rest. Even non-church goers consider Sunday as a day of rest because of the strong historical background of Presbyterianism in America.
Your second point is also valid. There is a difference between the Jewish form of worship and the Christian form of worship. The Jewish form called for many rituals, from animal sacrifices to work restrictions. Indeed, their calendar was packed with sacerdotal and lay forms of worship that consumed the whole nation on a daily basis. It may be easy to dismiss them as simply ceremonial commands, however, they originated in the mind of God. He decreed them in order to forecast and symbolize the work of the second person of the Trinity. The Christian form of worship has its rituals too, but they look back on the accomplished work of Jesus Christ. You are correct to say that the Christian church (for the most part) has not advocated a 24-hour rest as a legitimate form of worship.
Post Number: 14781
|Posted on Monday, April 07, 2014 - 3:14 pm: || |
Thank you, Terry. Very good points...and thank you for pointing out the weakness of the "Christian sabbath" view. That has set the stage for Adventists to gain the upper hand in arguments.