| Author | Message | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 8169 Registered: 9-2006  |
I listen to CSN every chance I get. They have a question and answer session where people call in and ask questions of two pastors. The question was about once saved always saved. One of the pastors referred the question to the other pastor. The pastors try to give Bible answers to the questions. The pastor referred to the parable of the sower in Matthew 13:3- 13:8 to try and answer the question. I told my granddaughter that these verses neither proved nor disproved the question, and further were not good verses to use to answer the question. I am curious as to what you all think? | ||
| Ric_b Registered user Username: Ric_b Post Number: 2149 Registered: 7-2004  |
I agree that they are poor verses in regards to this question. The relative security of our salvation is not the point of the parable. When we want to answer theological questions, we should start with passage that are teaching directly about that subject. Those will tell us the most. After that, we fill in gaps and details from the other places. | ||
| Philharris Registered user Username: Philharris Post Number: 3096 Registered: 5-2007  |
These are a series of interlocking parables where the farmer (evangelist) scatters good seed in his field (proclaims the gospel message to the lost sinners of the world). The seed dies (Christ's death at Calvary) so when it is planted in good soil (the new birth of a sinner dead in his/her sins) it will come to life and grow into a health plant. If you connect these parables with Romans chapter eight then you should be able to conclude that when the seed is planted in good soil nothing can cause the plant to die. Notice, one of the parables has to do with the 'wheat and the tares'. The tares from the bad seed was never good seed. The bad seed are plants that end up in the fire. The plants from the good seed is harvested. So, yes I believe that this teaches eternal security as the gospel planted 'in good soil' results in a sure harvest. It is all about the seed and what soil it comes to life in. Fearless Phil | ||
| Ric_b Registered user Username: Ric_b Post Number: 2150 Registered: 7-2004 |
One problem that arises from basing your theology of salvational assurance on the seed sower parable is that result can be denying any assurance to anyone. How are you ever certain that you are not the stony or thorny ground? You seem to have real faith now, but how can you know it is a faith built in good soil that will sustain? The common explanation of this parable, that tries to provide both absolute assurance of salvation because of predestination while at the same time explaining how others who appeared to have faith could have fallen away, does (I believe) just the opposite. It creates a situation where no one can have certainty. Although I don't align myself with Arminians, there is more certainty in hearing that you are saved as long as you continue to abide in Christ than there is in a teaching that emphasizes, what you have might look like faith, but we won't know until later whether you were given good soil. Don't worry about it, you can't change your soil, that is predestined. Hopefully the seed that we see growing was planted in good soil. There is far more assurance in a message that says you are saved unless you choose to reject Christ than there is in a message that says you might be saved, let's wait and see how the seed continues to grow. | ||
| Ric_b Registered user Username: Ric_b Post Number: 2151 Registered: 7-2004 |
This parable is about what happens to the message that is proclaimed. It isn't about a believer's assurance, but instead it is about what we can expect when we proclaim the Gospel in the world. The message will go out. The message is good, but the results won't always be the same. Because the one receiving the message is different. The message of this parable is just as true whether you believe that God alone is responsible for the condition of the soil (predestination/salvational assurance) or that man is responsible for the condition of his own soil (free will). Either way, the result of the true message is different in each condition. | ||
| Philharris Registered user Username: Philharris Post Number: 3097 Registered: 5-2007 |
I will concede that these parables are not the best place to turn to in support of our eternal security therefore I'm in agreement with both Rick and River. Fearless Phil | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 8170 Registered: 9-2006 |
Thanks Rick for making it much clearer with the statement 'This parable is about what happens to the message that is proclaimed.' Most of the time these pastors give good Bible answers, and they themselves say they desire to give answers directly from the Bible. I don't hold it against the pastor, but when he went to the parable of the sower to answer the question my antenna shot up over the roof. | ||
| Mjcmcook Registered user Username: Mjcmcook Post Number: 1614 Registered: 2-2011  |
River~ I am with you~ My, "antenna shot up over the roof," too! ~mj~ | ||
| Islander Registered user Username: Islander Post Number: 63 Registered: 4-2014 |
What is CSN ? | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 8173 Registered: 9-2006 |
A Christian radio network that has stations all around the U.S.. you can listen on computer too. | ||
| Islander Registered user Username: Islander Post Number: 64 Registered: 4-2014 |
I will try finding out if the station is available out here. We don't get much of what the mainlanders have access to. Thank you for telling me. |
