| Author | Message | ||
| Plain Patti |
WDYT? There are many texts that show that we are saved at God's impetus and not on our own. John 6:37 However, those the Father has given me will come to me, and I will never reject them. John 6:44 For people can't come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them to me, and at the last day I will raise them from the dead. John 6:65 And he said, "For this reason I have told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted by the Father." John 12:37 But despite all the miraculous signs he had done, most of the people did not believe in him. 12:38 This is exactly what Isaiah the prophet had predicted: "Lord, who has believed our message? To whom will the Lord reveal his saving power?" 12:39 But the people couldn't believe, for as Isaiah also said, 12:40 "The Lord has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts ñ so their eyes cannot see, and their hearts cannot understand, and they cannot turn to me and let me heal them." I Timothy 1:14 Oh, how kind and gracious the Lord was! He filled me completely with faith and the love of Christ Jesus. II Timothy 2:25 They should gently teach those who oppose the truth. Perhaps God will change those people's hearts, and they will believe the truth. Titus 3:3 Once we, too, were foolish and disobedient. We were misled by others and became slaves to many wicked desires and evil pleasures. Our lives were full of evil and envy. We hated others, and they hated us. 3:4 But then God our Savior showed us his kindness and love. 3:5 He saved us, not because of the good things we did, but because of his mercy. He washed away our sins and gave us a new life through the Holy Spirit. 3:6 He generously poured out the Spirit upon us because of what Jesus Christ our Savior did. 3:7 He declared us not guilty because of his great kindness. And now we know that we will inherit eternal life. James 1:17 Whatever is good and perfect comes to us from God above, who created all heaven's lights. Unlike them, he never changes or casts shifting shadows. 1:18 In his goodness he chose to make us his own children by giving us his true word. And we, out of all creation, became his choice possession. Even our faith is a gift. Romans 12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith. We don't even know how to pray. Romans 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. It seems to me that these verses indicate that salvation is a GIFT. Can man choose to GIFT himself? Every part of our salvation is God's work. He even gives us the faith to believe it when it is presented to us. WDYT? | ||
| BRUCE H |
Maryann Do you remember the story of Paul when he was a prisoner and out at sea and a large storm came up and all on board thought that they would be Lost then Paul told them that God had informed him that if they stayed in the boat and not leave that they would be safe, but if they left the Boat they would die. Now as the story comes out they all stayed in the boat and they were all saved. Know think about this, They all had the free will and right to leave God would not stop anybody from leaving, but remember nobody left. This is how I believe it is you will be free to leave, But I dont not think anybody will bail ship. By the way George. When you accept the free Gift of the Holy spirit you may find that you do not feel any different then you did before you accepted the Gift. Do not rely on feeling but on the word of God for it say's this is true. Then you will find out what God has instore for you, and with your background I think it may be somthing big. YOURS IN CHRIST | ||
| Maryann |
Hey Guys, Hot Diggity Dog! Dingaling, the bells just went off!!:-) I have been watching this unfold yesterday and today with every post starting with Lori and ending with Bruce and all the good stuff in the middle. I got the answer!! Once saved always saved "IS" true. I can't believe it, it is "TRUE". You can "NOT", as long as you are spiritually alive, fall from grace. "NO" sin, deed, action, thought etc, etc, can spiritually "KILL" you as long as you are spiritually alive and "BELIEVE". BUT, like Paul and the rest of the guys in the boat in the storm, if they "BELIEVED", they were saved! They were some bad guys, but they "BELIEVED". Their deeds were not the grounds on which they were saved! It was, you guessed it, their "BELIEF" that saved them! :-),:-),:-). Like the guys in the boat, they could have chosen to jump out of boat, we too, can choose to jump out of God's hand. (Great boat story Bruce) And the only way I can think someone would jump out of God's hand is "NOT" or "STOP" believing in Him! It is our choice to either "BELIEVE" or not to "BELIEVE"! It is "GOD'S CHOICE" to accept as perfect, by the life, death, resurrection and accention of His Son paying in full, every sin, past present and future of every man, woman and child that "BELIEVES"! Lori, Colleen, you are on the money, it is "NOT" the "SIN" that condemns you, it is the "UNBELIEF" that condemns you! The sins were paid for already. Just who is going to come down and die again for something already paid for? Wow, I got wound up. If this BIG FLASH of understanding is correct, I have really got something to be excited about and something exciting to share with others. This is some seriously "GOOD NEWS":-) Good bye forever EGW/SDA, hello God! Now, if I somehow got the wrong idea here, PLEASE correct me! Wound up like a 7 day clock....Maryann | ||
| Plain Patti |
This is a phrase that helped me infinitely to understand: God does not forgive sins, he forgives sinners. WDYT? | ||
| Maryann |
Joni, I need you to explain,"We are slaves to righteousness". If we are slaves, how can we have free choice? :-( I missed that in Rom. 6. Sounds to me like I shouldn't sleep on something,'cause I get all messed up thinking. Maybe I just need more practice thinking, huh? Maryann | ||
| BRUCE H |
Maryann The word slave in the greek is douleuo. This is what a douleuo was when a person was to pay off a debt he was a slave or indentured servant to the person who he owed the debt to untill it was paid off. When the debt was paid off the person was free to go where ever he wanted to go. But if the person fell in love with the family that he was working for he could become a douleuos to that family but if he did this he would no longer be free to go his own way. So the person would have his ear pierced to the door post of the home and he would where an ear ring in his ear showing with pride that he had made this dicision. I see it like this we are either a salve to sin or we are a slave to Gods will which is opisite of sin there are no other options, it is either Gods will or sin. By the way in your post about salvation you hit the nail right on the head but it is even better than that, If you find out that you have a problem believing and you will as the days go by if you ask the lord to Help your unbelief he will be glad to answere your prayers. Bruce Heinrich | ||
| Joni |
Maryann, I couldn't say it better than Bruce. The text is Exodus 21:5 "But if the slave plainly says, I love my master, my wife and my children; I will not go out as a free man, then his master shall bring him to God, then he shall bring him to the door of the doorpost. And his master shall pierce his ear with an awl; and he shall serve him permanently." I am pierced with Christ and I am His slave. I love Him and serve only Him. Sin becomes a choice when we are born again. And I choose to serve Him. (my focus has changed, I am not perfect) Christ emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and humbled Himself. He came to serve. I am a bond-servant of His. Phil. 2:4-11. I want to say thank you to each and everyone of you. You all have been an inspiration to me. You have made my transition from Adventism to a Christ centered relationship and new Church so much easier. Just knowing that there are others going through the same thing and finding the same truth in Christ, all of us each in different ways, but none the less growing and learning IN HIM. Thank you. Joni | ||
| Colleentinker |
One of my big surprises has been the fellowship of like minds and hearts God has brought to us since we took the risk and left Adventism. This unity in the Spirit is unlike anything I knew before. I actually praise God that I was Adventist. I think we formers have an understanding of grace and salvation that we couldn't have had if we hadn't been in spiritual bondage to the law and to deception. I am so grateful God has brought us together, and I pray that he will continue to guide those who need this kind of support and help to find us. Love in Him to you all, Colleen | ||
| Plain Patti |
FOR WHAT IT'S WORTH: Why I do not believe in "Once-saved, Always-saved." I have been toying around with this idea for a few weeks, trying to verbalize exactly why the phrase "once-saved, always-saved" makes me a bit squeamish. I think I have solidified by beliefs down to a point that I can coherently write them down. When I was a young mother and the Gospel had just found me, a couple of Baptist ministers came by my house and wanted to talk to me. I was eager to talk to them, hoping I would find someone with which I could find a rapport on the subjects of salvation and grace. One of the first things they asked me was, "Are you saved?" to which I immediately replied, "Yes." In their best ministerly fashion, they replied, "Well, praise God. Can you tell me when you were saved?" I responded, "About AD 33, give or take a few calender errors." Then I observed as they looked at each other, the glow left their faces and they got that look on their faces that I saw on many SDA preachers who have scoped the situation and decided it was time to turn the pressure up a bit. "We all know that that is when Christ died on the cross," they said, "but when were YOU saved." I repeated my first answer. They began to get to work now. They had found a heretic, and they were going to set me straight--prove to me that I was not truly "saved." "When we are saved, we have a 'born-again' experience. When did that happen to you?" I explained to them that the chapter of John 3, which is the "born-again" chapter described the new birth as believing in Jesus Christ. Still not good enough for them. We went around and around for awhile. I told them that they were trying to mess around with my security, and that I had been through too much to allow that to happen. That if Christ had not saved me (and everyone) on the cross, then there was no hope for me. Finally (thank heaven!) they gave up, had prayer with me, ("Lord, we just want to thank you for this sister, and, Lord, we just... and, Lord, we just...," etc. Is that prayer in the Baptist catechism? :) left me a card, invited me to their church. I found this to be rather unnerving, so I went back to Paul again to see if I were the one who was missing something. My conclusion: my salvation is in Christ, not of myself nor anything that is in me--not even my faith was strong enough to save me. It was the mercy of God totally that found me, revealed itself to me, and opened my eyes to the Gospel of grace in Christ Jesus. What I discovered is that most denominations--except for the mainstream denominations which are denigrated by the fundamentalists (I include Baptists with the fundamentalists)--make salvation dependent upon something inside the believer. Baptists have an insidious way of turning faith into works, so that our faith is what saves us, not the grace of God alone. They also look for a "saving experience" as an indicator of salvation. This still takes the focus off of Jesus Christ and Him crucified and back onto the believer. I am not merely picking on the Baptists. Nearly every denomination outside of the mainstream--I consider these part of the mainstream: Presbyterian, Methodist, Lutheran, Episcopalian, Disciples, United Church of Christ (NOT C of C), Congregationalists, Reformed Churches--is believer-centric and requires that one look to himself for evidence of salvation. Here are just a few denominations and their primary indicator of salvation (I don't think I have to mention SDAs--they have many indicators of salvation, the main one being sabbath-keeping): Assembly/Pentecostal--speaking in tongues Baptist--salvation experience Church of Christ--salvation by works, pure and simple Mormonism--too many to mention, example--abstinence from alcohol, cigarettes, tea, and coffee Catholic--good deeds I am not condemning these denominations; merely giving a reason why I choose not to buy into their theology. So, back to the original premise of this post: Why I do not believe in "once-saved, always-saved." This phrase has the connotation of salvation being at the believer's incentive, and not at God's. God saved His people at the cross. If I believe this, then I must believe that everyone was saved at the cross theoretically. I would have to be a universalist if I believed in a strict interpretation of "once-saved, always-saved," and I am not a universalist. (Although, I will have to admit that there is some biblical support for this position, but I won't go there right now.) It may very well be that once the Gospel has been revealed to us and we exercise the faith that God had given us to believe that it is true, that we will always believe in His saving grace. However, I have found that most of those who tout "once-saved, always-saved"--generally the Baptists--do not truly believe that Christ's doing and dying alone were sufficient for their salvation. Their "once-saved, always-saved" has to include their own righteousness, their own good works, which is a giant step toward the Roman Catholic doctrine of salvation by faith which works in love. So, although they claim "once-saved, always-saved" they give themselves an "out" when someone "strays." They will say one of two things. Either: 1. Well, he wasn't truly saved to begin with, OR 2. Well, God has not really left him; he will come back before its too late. All this confusion stems from depending to some degree upon something inside of us for our salvation. And whenever we depend upon something inside of us, we lose our footing on the Rock and fall to sinking sand. Our salvation is based securely on the historical, completed, all-sufficient, perfect, and unrepeatable work of Christ. We are saved by an alien righteousness, the righteousness of the One Who has been raised from the dead and is seated in the place of highest honor in the universe. King of kings and Lord of lords. So, am I saved? Yes. And I can say it with confidence because my salvation is not based upon anything that I do or don't do. I can stand boldly before the throne of grace knowing that Christ's righteousness covers me fully. So, can I lose this salvation? For me this is a non-issue. An analogy: If I love someone and want to be united with him in marriage, do I wonder if the marriage license has an escape clause so that I can get out of it later? Or so that my spouse can? Of course not. It is the love relationship that binds. In our "relationship" to the Gospel, he who is forgiven the most, loves the most. Why would I, the chief of sinners, or anyone, want to leave the shelter of Christ's arms? And I have His promise that no one can ever snatch me out of them, so I see no issue here. He is able to save me to the uttermost. We are asked merely to believe that this is so. I think that is what is meant by having faith in Him. Grace and peace, Patti | ||
| Susan |
Hi Patti, I agree with your position that salvation is totally a "God thing" and a "done deal"! Since we are "dead in our transgressions" (Eph.2?), then we are incapable of doing anything about our situation (dead people can't even choose to become anything at all!). It's GOD that makes us alive through the blood of Christ. We are certainly saved by the grace of God. And I believe it's through faith in Jesus Christ. But I also feel that even the faith to believe is not of ourselves but is a GIFT of God. Without the divine intervention of God's Holy Spirit we are incapable in our sinful nature to even desire such a holy God. But Patti, I'm not sure I agree that all churches teach salvation is something found in one's self. In fact, you sound very Reformed in your understanding of salvation. This is the persuasion I come from, and what you've explained sounds exactly like something you'd hear in one of our churches. Have you checked out Rolaant McKenzie's (sp?) "Reformed" website? There are some great articles and links on this very subject there. He's at www.gospeloutreach.net. Thanks Patti for your wonderful insight! Your sister in Christ, Susan | ||
| George |
Colleen Your post to me was the most wonderful thing I have ever read. It brought the ideas of all the previous posts together in a way that was easy to understand. Thanks! For nearly 40 years I have talked to many people for hours and hours, about religion and have always come away thinking, there is something wrong here. It was like building a house of cards where everything is dependent on everything else to stand and by removing only one card from anywhere the whole thing would collapse. Now for the first time things are making sense. The ideas can stand on their own, and it only takes a few words to say it. I donít think this would have happened if you Guys hadnít explained it in your own words from the heart. You see, I have been so turned off to religion I can hardly read Bible verses, they are just a collection words that have no meaning to me. Bruce, Your idea of the devil jumping on you so he can keep your family is good. If you are saved he knows he canít get you, so what other reason would he have for bothering you? Also I like your thoughts on the story of Paul in the boat. Sure enough they had the freedom to jump out (or leave salvation) if they wanted to. But under the circumstances they would have been stupid to do so. I came up with an idea last night that may work as well. If all sins are paid for and we no longer have to worry about them, and ìbelievingî is the way we take advantage of salvation, then, unbelieving is the only ìsinî that can keep us out of heaven. Take a piece of white paper and hold it in front of your face. Now, assuming you arenít color blind you will have to believe it is white. If you can stop believing the paper is white you can stop believing you are saved also. It seems impossible to stop believing something you KNOW to be true. Therefor it would seem, once you KNOW you are saved, you are always saved. Patti, This whole line on once saved always was started by an eleven year old who asked, ìIf I kill someone will I go to heaven. I answered yes if you say you are sorry and ask for forgiveness. He said that is not right, if you are saved you will go to heaven anyway. To which I said, you have to pay for what you do wrong in some way. The question was put out on the forum and it came back that he was right. I still couldnít accept this, either you had to confess and get forgiveness for the things you did after you were saved, or, you couldnít sin. It couldnít be both ways. I donít think there is a question in anyoneís mind that Christís death in AD 33 is what saves us from sin. The question is how do we take advantage of it. If we donít have to do anything about it then everyone will be saved. Since that doesnít seem to be the case, WE must have to do something. What is it? We just have to believe that He died for us. I agree with you that some people make faith into their works. I donít know why people have to make faith into such a big job. Faith is believing in something unseen. Now, I think we can agree that all we have to believe in His death to get there. As that happened almost 2000 years ago, and none of us saw it, I think that showís we have faith. Faith is something we have, not something we do. What could be more simple. No work involved. Now, whoís sins did He die for? The sins of the righteous only, or all sins? If it is ALL sins, then it was for the sins of those that will not get there too. If that is so, what will keep us out of heaven. I think that unbelief is the only thing left. So, if you know you are saved and really believe it, and donít change your mind then you will always be saved. In this sense once saved always saved. How can it be any different? Lori, Thanks again for getting me started on this line of thought. George | ||
| Lori |
George, What a wonderul witness you just gave in your letter!!!!!! I can understand completely your distaste for religion; I have been and am still there! But there's great news, you can throw religion in the trash, because religion has absolutely nothing to do with Christianity! You can be a Christian for the rest of your life and love God and be a witness for him and never be religious! Christianity is a relationship (with Christ) not a religion. Lori | ||
| Joni |
I agree. One of my verses that helped me to understand when I was confused about religion and Adventism is John 17:3 "And this is eternal life, that they may know Thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom Thou hast sent." When I read this verse I was pricked. I changed my focus. I wanted to get to know God and Jesus Christ, and not "play Church". This is eternal life, to know God. I no longer read my Bible to know doctrine or see where others are wrong. But I read it to Know God and Jesus Christ. To know where they want me to change and grow. And I know that I will change and grow because the Word says it. It is life, to read God's word, to know Him. I have so much to learn and grow BUT... I trust Him, that He will finish the work He started in me. Phil.1:6. And that I can do all things in Christ Phil.4:13 And that My God will supply all my needs in Christ Jesus. Phil. 4:19 Praise God. "For I know the plans, I have for you, declares the LORD, plans for welfare and not for calamity to give you a future and a hope" Jer. 29:11 | ||
| David |
Have you ever read the parable of the sower? I mean really read it and tried to understand it totally? This one parable explains our relationship to Christ and the assurance that we CAN have if we meet certain conditions. First and most important is the Lord's description of the Sower as being one so extravagant with the precious seed that He did not keep it from falling even on the "worthless" ground of the road or of the rocky soil. This is how much our Father loves the world. He is willing to broadcast His Word everywhere and to give everybody the chance of salvation. In the first instance, the seed is carried off by the birds. How many of you "heard" the gospel and accepted it the first time you heard it? Very few I imagine. In my own experience, it was a full year or more from the time I really heard the gospel until something in me "clicked" and I responded to it. So the birds did carry away the message the first time I heard it. In the second instance, the seed falls upon the rocky soil "which receives it gladly" but because this type of person "has no root in himself", he falls away from the gospel during times of persecution. We have "no root in ourselves". Jesus said that we were to "abide" in Him. "Abide" in this context means to be "rooted in". The rocky soil individual is a religious individual. He hears the gospel, accepts it and then immediately goes about trying to live the Christian life in his own power and from his own religious perspective. The result is a person who says and does the "right, Christian" thing, but one who is powerless. The warning to us is that in the last days there will be whole organizations/denominations out there that cater to this mentality. 2 Timothy 3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. 2: For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3: Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, 4: Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; 5: Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. These are the "rocky ground" people who think that they have the gospel locked up for themselves, the modern day Pharisees who uphold their doctrine as THE doctrine of salvation while denying the power of it. How many have been here? I have. I was an SDA and I know the powerlessness of that persuasion. I thank God that He delivered me from it. If we are not "rooted in Christ" then were are rooted in our sin and our own error and we will be lost. We have freedom to choose which one to be rooted in and I think that that is why Christ commanded us to "take up your cross daily and follow" Him. That is the only way to be rooted in Him and it didn't just happen in AD33. "Today is the day of salvation, do no harden your hearts". The third type is the one who is into the prosperity message so prevalant today. These people will burn out and the only ones who will be prosperous will be their pastors, so called. The tares and weeds will indeed choke out their faith because they will not understand that that their prosperity is what God has accomplished for them. Have I ever been of this mind set? Have you ever been disappointed that God didn't do for you what He did for somebody else? Has He ever "failed" to answer your prayers? Did His "failure" upset you? It has me. BUT then I realized that I serve God and not the other way around and that if He never did anything else for me, He has still saved me. When I came to this conclusion, I became free in Christ and teachable. I became a prepared garden that would accept unconditionaly all of the good things that what He wanted to plant in me. I made the transition from a self centered, periperal believer in the gospel to one who understands my responsiblity to stay the course, no matter what, and to be totally rooted in the salvation that He has provided and the power that He has provide for me, in His Spirit, to live the Christian life. I know that some may take offence at this explanation of the steps to maturity because they do not comprehend the nature of our freewill or our Father's respect of it. We are challenged throughout the Scriptures to take charge of our salvation by willing or choosing to stay in Christ no matter what. Stay in the Boat! Do not jump overboard in word, deed or theology. I haven't arrived to full Christian maturity. Paul himself confessed that he hadn't arrived. The Christian walk is a revelation. Every day has a new revelation. Stay tuned for it. I am a merely a pilgrim on the path of discipleship in Christ and realize the error of the other three positions and I strive to stay in the final, fruitbearing position by bringing every thought into captivity to the mind of Christ. Change is discipleship. It is a choice made only by total surrender to our Lord Jesus. It is a living relationship that the world does not understand and it is a power that the world does not see. But it is the Bridegroom and His bride in holy communion. I wouldn't trade it for the world. | ||
| Lynn W |
David, that was one of the best explanations of the sower I've ever read. | ||
| George |
Joni, Playing church. What a way to think of what I have been doing all of my "religous" life. Just as children grow up and stop playing house, I to can now stop playing "church." What an idea,thanks. To all of you, I need some feed back on the letter I posted yesterday. Right----Wrong----Other??? Thanks to all----George | ||
| George |
David, The powerlessness of persuasion in most ìchurchesî is so true, it seems the more they say the harder it is to understand. There are so many good points in your letter I canít comment on all of them. The general idea I get though is that we are not, once saved always saved. When it says ìI die dailyî and ìTake up your cross dailyî and ìToday is the day of salvationî does this mean we have to be born anew every day? Please take another look at my letter of April 3 where it talks about holding a piece of white paper in front of your face. And the only real sin is unbelief and tell me what you think. Also compare with the idea above. Still looking for answers-----George | ||
| Joni |
George, I am not as elegant a writer as most of these wonderful people. When I read you question about being born anew every day, for some reason I thought of Peter in Acts 2:37-41 "Now when they heard this, they were pierced to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, Brethren, what shall we do? And Peter said to them, Repent, and let each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is for you and your children, and for all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God shall call to Himself. And with many other words he solemnly testified and kept on exhorting them, saying, Be saved from this perverse generation!. So then, those who had received his word were baptized; and there were added that day about three thousand souls." When they heard what? Read the previous. It was all about Jesus in the O.T. How He came to save us. When we hear we should be pierced to the heart especially when we realize how unclean we are. This leads us to repentance. We repent of our sins and how we have persecuted Jesus. And then we are baptized. Baptized means that we are identified with Jesus. It is like dipping clothe in a dye. It comes out the color of the dye. Just so we come out In Jesus Christ. We have the mind of Christ. We receive the gift of the Holy Spirit which seals us in Christ. We are saved from the perverse world. We do not have to be born again everyday. We take showers now and then clean up when needed. Jesus is also the water of the washing of the Word. The promise is for us. What promise? The promise that everyone who calls upon the Name of the LORD shall be saved. You wouldn't be asking and writing these questions if the Lord isn't calling you to Him. It is He who chooses us. Anyway that is what I thought and I don't know if it has been a help or not. Grace be with you, Joni | ||
| George |
Joni, Donít sell yourself short, when the words are from the heart and yours are there are none that write better. Unless someone can prove me wrong, I now believe that ALL sins were paid for when Christ died, that means the ones of the good people and the bad also. If this is the case no one has to worry about sin anymore. The question then becomes, do we believe this is or not. If we do, then we are saved and there is little else we have to worry about. Hay, I just had a thought, if what I just said is true, this must be the perfection that you hear argued about so much.----???? Back to the subject. When David pointed out in his post that we are to ìTake up the cross DAILYî and ìTODAY is the day of salvationî and I added ì I die DAILYî as Paul says, it seems to say there is something we are to do everyday. If we die every day, and, every day is the day of salvation, then every day we must have had to be born also. Do you see where I am going with this? The only reason I can see for dying every day, is that there is something wrong with us and the only thing that could be is some kind of sin. Now, if you die every day, you must also be born every day. I guess you could say you were ìborn againî every day. If you have to be ìborn againî to be saved, then being born again every day must mean that you are saved again every day also. This last idea is the exact apposite of the idea in the first part of the letter. Need help with this one Guys-------George |
