| Author | Message | ||
| Jude the Obscure |
Dear SDA Friend: GOING TO CHURCH ON SABBATH IS A SIN Oh, but it is! It is, at least, if you keep the commandments of God as you claim you do. Want proof? Fair enough. Here it is: In Exodus 16:29 and in the King James Version: ìSee, for that the LORD hath given you the sabbath, therefore he giveth you on the sixth day the bread of two days.î You like that part, donít you? Extra goodies for those who keep the commandments! Blessings like that make you feel special. Cared for. But wait! Thereís more. The game youíre playing is getting dicier. Read on: ìAbide ye every man in his place, let no man go out of his place on the seventh day.î Whoops! According to the Bible and the Bible alone, you donít get to go off your own property on Sabbath. Not even to church! Oh, and now I can just hear you: ìMy Sabbath dayís journey! What about my Sabbath dayís journey? As a faithful commandment-keeper, donít I get my Sabbath dayís journey!î WellÖ. Whereís your AUTHORITY for your Sabbath dayís journey? Bet you donít even know. Iíll give you a couple of hints: Hint No. 1: Itís not in the Bible. Hint No. 2: Itís not in the writings of Ellen G. White either. Give up? Okay, hereís the answer: Itís in ìthe TRADITIONS of menî -- Jewish tradition. Yes indeed, the TRADITIONS of men! And I donít care if you are a $500/hr. attorney from the Big Enchilada. Youíre simply not going to be able to argue or finesse or shilly-shally your way out of this one. That's a promise I can keep. For Iíve got you cold on this one. Donít want to hear it from me? Want to hear it straight from the mouth of a very refined, very intelligent, very learned, no-nonsense rabbi? Very well. Be my guest: Commenting on Exodus 16:29, the good rabbi says, ìJewish law UNDERSTOOD this as forbidding walking more than about a half mile outside city limits on Sabbath; walks within these boundaries were permitted.î -- Rabbi Joseph Telushkin, BIBLICAL LITERACY (New York: William Morrow, 1997), page 517. Thank you, Rabbi Joseph. You may sit down now. But please donít leave the building. I have a feeling that in future weíll be needing more of your most excellent services. A lot more. So what have we learned so far? Just this: The commandment as stated in the Bible and the Bible only brooks no compromise: You canít go out of your place, your property, on the Sabbath. Period. Not inside the city limits. Not outside the city limits. Nowhere at all. The Bible and the Bible only, my Adventist friend! The Bible and the Bible only! No ifs, ands, buts, wherefores, whereases, or heretofores will be brooked. Are you willing to be obedient unto death? Or -- thanks to the most excellent services of the learned scholar Rabbi Joseph Telushkin -- are you going to place your faith in and rely on ìthe TRADITIONS of menî? Be careful! You're already on the thinnest of ice. For "the TRADITIONS of men" say, Jewish law can be UNDERSTOOD to permit a half-mile ìSabbath dayís journey.î Hey, I just thought of something! Only half a mile? And here you are of a Sabbath morning. Driving 13.7 miles on that cloggy-smoggy-sticky-icky, exhausty-and-exhausting freeway. Just to hit Pastor Parscore's 11:00 oíclock service at Elysian Fields SDA church. Where the parking lot looks more like the local Mercedes-Benz dealership than the Nativity stable in the little town of Bethlehem. But, details, details! Pressing right along.... According to the Bible and the Bible only, there is no reason at all for traveling ANY DISTANCE at all away from your place on Sabbath. And doing so is a violation of Scripture, of the Fourth Commandment of the Decalogue, and of Godís law as written with Godís own finger on two tables of stone on Mt. Sinai. And therefore it is a sin. And therefore itís a sin. I told you I had you cold on ice. Your only out -- should you choose to take it -- your only excuse, lies solely in the commodious generosity of the ìTRADITIONS of men.î And this is where, my dear Adventist friend, I really have you. For Jesus and Paul have some very stern rebukes in store for you. Stern Rebuke No. 1 (Matthew 15:3 NIV): ìWhy do you [Pharisees and teachers of the law] break the command of God for the sake of your TRADITION?î Stern Rebuke No. 2 (Matthew 15:6 NIV): ìYou nullify the word of God for the sake of your TRADITION.î Stern Rebuke No. 3 (Colossians 2:8 NIV): ìSee to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human TRADITION and the basic principles of this world rather than on Christ.î Stern Rebuke No. 4 (Mark 7:8 NIV): ìYou have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to the TRADITIONS of men.î Stern Rebuke No. 5 (Mark 7:9 NIV): You have a fine way of setting aside the commands of God in order to observe your own TRADITIONS!î You see? You canít rely on ìthe TRADITIONS of menî ñ as the ancient Jews did ñ to rescue you from your obligation to keep the Sabbath day holy according to the Bible and the Bible only. Now, as well versed in Scripture as I know you to be, you are fully and culpably aware of the King James Version translation of 1 John 4:4, which asserts that ìsin is the transgression of the law.î Therefore your weekly transgression of the law -- as unambiguously stated in Exodus 16:29 ñ leaves you without excuse before God: GOING TO CHURCH ON SABBATH IS A SIN. So which will it be? Option No. 1: Stay ìin your placeî on the Sabbath, keep the scriptural law, and break ìthe TRADITIONS of menî? Option No. 2: Go to church on the Sabbath, keep ìthe TRADITIONS of men,î and break the Sabbath, transgress the law of God and therefore commit ongoing, deliberate sin? Or can you -- using the Bible and the Bible only, remember -- find some fault with my logic? Patiently awaiting your answer, Jude | ||
| Bruce H |
HAY Jude Looks Like your putting that Book to good work. Boy did you hit home, kind of puts the fear of God in you, you see the Law as somthing that condemns you. Jude I believe you UPHOLD the Law for it purpose and that is to condemn us so we must turn to Jesus. Great work Jude. Bruce Heinri | ||
| Rayna |
You all have it. The law does condemn us and that is the absolute purpose of the law. It shows we are all sinners and our only hope is in Jesus as our Righteousness before God. Thank you so much for this insight! Keep on!! Again I thank God for this site, that others may read the truth. Rayna | ||
| Lori |
Jesus is our example will be the answer you will get from Sabbath keepers!!!! Jesus went to the synagogues on the Sabbath! So then should we do the same and attend church !! The answer lies within the covenants, does it not? When it says in Galatians 3 "What then was the purpose of the law? It was added because of the transgressions UNTIL THE SEED to whom the promise referred would come." And the following is a question...when it refers to 'until the Seed....would come' does that mean the birth of Christ? Does anyone know what the original Greek was for that phrase? (there is so much more depth to the Greek language than our English. It takes several sentences in English to convey the same thought in Greek.) Of course, to the Adventist mind set 'until the Seed would come' refers only to the second coming. But obviously, it has to pertain to the very birth of the Messiah or Jesus himself was in violation of the law of the 4th commandment. | ||
| Jude the Obscure |
Hi Lori, I'm not so sure our Sabbatarian Adventist friends will answer, "Jesus is our example." For I don't think they're quite ready to take responsibility for asserting that Jesus broke the law of God. For if they assert that our example broke the law, then they give themselves license to break the law as well. Have you ever read D.H. Lawrence? In one of his stories -- I forget which one -- Jesus carries on a sexual affair with Mary Magdelene. As writer Lawrence sincerely APPROVES of this liason and uses it brilliantly as a form of social criticism of the hypocrisy of his time. You see the problem our friends the Adventists would get into if they admitted that our example broke the law? Especially since they can't prove from Scripture that Jesus DID NOT have an affair with Mary. Furthermore, how can they say that our example DID BREAK the law forbidding one from leaving his own property on the Sabbath and then immediately contradict themselves by saying he DID NOT BREAK the law prohibiting work on the sabbath? Such as, by working himself (mixing clay), permitting his disciples to work (reap and thresh), allowing Peter's mother in law to work ("wait on" people), and even commanding a man to work (pick up and carry a bed across town when he could have waited till after sunset) -- AND ALL ON THE SABBATH! On the other hand, when I argue that Jesus broke the Sabbath I am consistent: 1. He broke the "stay home on Sabbath" law by going to synagogue "as was his custom." 2. He broke the "do no work on Sabbath" law and even defended his actions by saying, "I work and my Father in heaven works" on the Sabbath. He broke the "letter of the law" or "the written code that was against us," but he did not break the Spirit of the law. For he himself was the Spirit of the law and he cannot break himself. Our Adventist friends are thus stuck with having our example BREAK "the letter of the law" in one place ("stay at home") but then KEEP "the letter of the law" in another place ("do no work"). I would argue, furthermore, that Jesus is our example only in a strictly limited sense. For instance, Jesus is NOT OUR EXAMPLE when it comes to: 1. Dying for the sins of the world? (Sorry, but I'm thankful there is and can be ONLY ONE Jesus!) 2. Claiming to be God? ("Before Abraham was I AM!) 3. Refusing to exercise our "power of divinity" in order to save ourselves in life threatening situations? (One cannot exercise or refuse to exercise a power that one does not have.) Jesus is not even our example when it comes to keeping the law in order to qualify for salvation, justification, sanctification, perfection and sinlessness. He could do it. We can't. He is our example ONLY in the strict sense of "the straight and narrow way." In other words, only as saved, justified, sanctified, perfect and sinless people are we able to walk in the narrow way as Jesus did! Great objection Lori. See how you got me going? Love your mind. Blessings on you, Jude | ||
| Jude the Obscure |
Lori, Yes, I think you're right about Galatians 3. The Greek literally says (hyphenated word in English equates to a single word in Greek), "Now to-Abraham were-spoken the promises and to-the seed of-him. He does-not-say, And to-the seeds, as concerning many, but as concerning one. And to-the seed of-you, who is Christ." Galatians 3:16 (New Greek English Interlinear New Testament). And, I agree, this cannot refer to Christ's Second Coming, because the word seed in Greek as a transliteration is "spermati" or "sperm [singular]," which connotes conception, not maturity. Therefore, it can only refer to his First Coming. You're absolutely right. Jude | ||
| Steve |
Nice work you guys. You never fail to amaze me and keep my mind hopping. Something that I hopped over to yesterday was enlightening for me. I never saw this before. If we are to "keep" the sabbath (something I think MAY be truly impossible for a human, but I'm not sure yet) because Jesus kept it, then we must continue as He did in other matters. Right? Right, I would have said in the past. But where does that leave me? I have never celebrated the Feast of Dedication, yet John 10:22, 23 says, "At that time the Feast of Dedication took plae at Jerusalem; it was winter, and Jesus was walking in the temple in the portico of Solomon." I guess I need to keep the Feast of Dedication. The old Worldwide Church of God was at least more consistent that we SDAs in understanding that. For they "kept" the Festivals (I think some still do, although not for the same reasons) of Israel like Jesus did. He was their "Great Example." But if we are to follow that thought to it's logical conclusion, then we need to be crucified on a cross, be buried in a tomb, and be resurrected on the third day. How's that for an example? I don't know of anyone saying that we need to be literally crucified like Jesus was. But if He's our example, what's the problem? Let's get out the lumber and start crucifying ourselves. And let's not just scream as we do it, let's do as a young person from the church of Satan did in my living room once -- let's recite word for word (in King James English) the last words of Jesus from the cross, and sound like we really mean it. I like something I read from C. S. Lewis once, in regard to those that say Jesus was a great Teacher (or Example). He said Jesus was NOT a great teacher. He was either Lunatic, Liar, or Lord. It is His being our Lord, not our great teacher, that should make a difference in our lives. Yes, He taught in ways unlike any other. But that should not be our emphasis. He is Lord. We do a disservice to the Gospel, to other humans, and to God when we emphasize His teaching abilities and examples over His Lordship. Being Lord is something that we can NEVER follow. We can only fall at His feet and worship Him. And that, according to Phillipians chapter 2, is what all creation will ultimately do. Let's beat the rest of creation to the punch, and start calling Him Lord, NOW. Steve | ||
| Jude the Obscure |
Hi Steve, I agree that Jesus kept the Spirit of the Sabbath -- working by performing good works -- but he broke the letter of the law (his own law, written with his own finger) -- when he: 1. Left his place on the Sabbath (the fact that the Jewish authorities allowed this does not mean it was a literal violation of Sabbath legal code). 2. Worked, allowed his disciples to work, commanded a man to work, and permitted Peter's mother-in-law to work on the Sabbath. SDAs have yet to face these facts. Hang in there, Steve, you're doing great, Jude | ||
| jtree |
Col. 2:14-16 seems to bother my Adventist friends. No wonder. Here we have a command that SPECIFICALLY POINTS OUT that the sabbath along with the holy day and feasts be NOT observed. "Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; and having spoiled principalities and powers, he made shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, in respect of an holy day, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ." The law having been abolished, "nailed to His cross," let no man judge you of the sabbath (which, after all, is a part of that law which has been abolished: therefore). In 1 Chronicles 23:30-31, 2 Chronicles 2:4, 18:13, 31:3, Neh. 10:33, we have set forth the feasts as kept by the Jews. In these references we have the services specified as morning and evening (being the daily service), in the sabbath (being the weekly service), the new moon (being the monthly service), the solemn or set feast (being the annual service as outlined in Leviticus 23). The Jews observed feasts daily, weekly, monthly, and yearly. Now notice Col. 2:16: "Let no man judge you in meat or drink (daily), or in respect of an holyday (yearly), or of the new moon (monthly), or of the sabbath days (weekly)." Hence, the weekly sabbath is SPECIFICALLY POINTED OUT! These are a shadow of things to come, therefore my Adventists friends always reasons that the weekly sabbath could not be included as it was a memorial pointing back to creation. My opponent then leads me to believe that the sabbath is a memorial for us, but he misses the boat. I have shown them before, but they refuses to look, that the sabbath with all the law was given to the Jews: "Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: it is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations ... It is a sign between Me and the children of Israel." (Ex. 31:13,17) Remembering that the law (sabbath included) was "added . . . till" Christ came. All these things were a shadow and must continue in force till the body, Christ should come. Paul therefore says, "the body is of Christ." Evidently there was some effort being made to bind the disciples at Colosse under the law, forcing them to be circumcised and submit to the law. Paul corrects this false teaching, saying that the law was ''nailed to the cross.'' The Christ had come and the law had served its purpose. Therefore let no man judge you in the law which are a shadow of things to come, even Christ. "Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of man, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ: for in Him dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in him," et cetera. (Read verses 6-17) Also consider Hebrews 4:3-11. My Adventist friends would have us to believe that only the glory of the law was abolished but not the law itself. And so they want to bring an unglorious law into the new law! But notice the eleventh verse (2 Corinthians 3): "For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious." To what does "that" refer? If it refers to "glory" then we accuse Paul of unintelligent tautology and the glory of the law is not done away as stated ; hence, a contradiction. But notice verses 7-8 "But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones was glorious . . . how shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?" What was glorious? "The ministration of death, written and engraven in stones was glorious." What happened to it? "Is done away." I emphasize: Sabbath keeping is without New Testament authority. I challenge any man to produce the text commanding a Christian to keep the sabbath! My Adventists friends have been under the impression that without the old Mosaic law there can be no "law and order." But they are wrong about that, too. | ||
| jtree |
The conversion of the eunuch poses some interesting observations. Throughout the Word reference is made to the prophets for they testified of Jesus, being evidence that He was the Messiah. My Adventist friends goes to the Old Testament for authority; the disciples went in order to preach Jesus. The Old is not for "eternal life" but for testimony. The Jews were like my Adventist friends. "Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me." Now let's see how Phillip used the Old Testament scriptures. Did he begin in Isaiah 53 and conclude pointing out the merits of the Old Law, proclaiming the sabbath, as an Adventist would have done? No. He "began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus." He did not preach the merits of the Old, but about the author of the New! My Adventists friends would have us believe that the eunuch was converted by the law. I ask my friends here, Was the eunuch justified by the law? Did Philip preach the law that "brought us to'' Jesus, or did he preach ''Jesus''? Why did the eunuch desire to be baptized? Now we read that "In the beginning God . . ." (Gen. 1:1) Now for a parallel, my friends must find the scripture that the ''sabbath was in the beginning,'' but they can't because Jesus said that man was made and later the sabbath. (Mark 2:27) The Spirit guided the apostles into "all truth." (John 15:13) It has been delivered once for all. (Jude 3) Paul says that if anyone preaches any other gospel than this truth which is already delivered "let him be accursed." (Gal. 1:8-9) If the proposition that Christians are to keep the sabbath is truth, then we ought to find it in the gospel that the apostles preached. If not, a perverted gospel is preached and the preacher stands under condemnation. Now, wherein the gospel that Paul preached is the command for a Christian to keep the sabbath? Nowhere. Then, what about those that teach it? They teach not the truth and are condemned, per Galatians 1. Where do the Adventists get this doctrine that is nowhere preached in the "gospel"? From their "prophet," Ellen G. White. When? After "the faith" was delivered once for all. (Rom. 14:23) Adventist doctrine, therefore, is not of the faith, truth, or gospel, but is a doctrine that was delivered too late, and, therefore, by a false prophet at that. "Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world." (1 John 4:l) we "are not under the law," "become dead to the law," "delivered from the law," and that "Christ is the end of the law." (Rom. 6:14, Gal. 5:18, Rom. 7:4, 6, 10:4, Eph. 2:15) Notice that this says "the law." Adventists attempt to make the ''agreement'' and ''the law" two distinct things. They claim that we are delivered from the "agreement" but not from "the law." So notice now that we are delivered from "the law." Which shall we believe, Adventism or the Bible? | ||
| Jude the Obscure |
Thanks for wielding the sword of truth on those closed-minded websites, Joshua Tree. I, for one, am backing you to the hilt. You are a tough and brave worrier for grace alone, faith alone and Christ alone. Remember and gain courage from the old saying, "There are none so blind as those who will not see." | ||
| sherry |
I am no longer an Adventist, and I've been seeing many organizations that do hold to Sabbath, as well as have an understanding of Jesus' as a total Sabbath rest too. And when I've just studied passage to passage, I still see it as special and important. How do you explain Isaiah 66:22, 23 "For as the new heavens and the new earth which I will make shall remain before Me," says the Lord, so shall your descendants and your name remain. And it shall come to pass that from one New Moon to another, and from one Sabbath to another, all flesh shall come to worship before Me," says the Lord." And why does Jesus even bother to tell His disciples to pray that their flight be not in the winter or on the Sabbath, if He knew after His death, this would have no bearing upon them? | ||
| Lydell |
Sherry, question: will there be a need for a new moon? | ||
| George |
Sherry, What if the sabbath and the seventh day God was refering to in the 4th commandment was the day of the 7th plague. After all that has more to do with pointing to Christs death and our salvation than the day He rested after creation. As far as I can see, it could be one just as well as the other. The day of the 7th plague makes more sense to me because it happened not long before the command was given. What do you think---George | ||
| Toni Kranjec |
Sherry, I don't think there will be flesh in the heaven.(1.Cor. 15:50) I also don't think we will have descendents in heaven. (Isa. 65:23, 66:22) We will be like angels...(Matt. 22:30) Now, also, what does burnt offerings and sacrifices doing in the house of God? (Isa.56:4-7) Were they not abbolished later? Were not those sacrifices pointed to the Christ? Also, in Isa. 56:4-7 you can see that writer is talking about (Mosaic)covenant - which was abolished... All in all it seems that 'Isaiah' is not talking about heaven?! Was he realy 'original' Isaiah? | ||
| Jude the Obscure |
Hi, Sherry, Excellent question: Explain Isaiah 66:22, 23: "'For as the new heavens and the new earth which I will make shall remain before Me,' says the Lord, 'so shall your descendants and your name remain. And it shall come to pass that from one New Moon to another, and from one Sabbath to another, all flesh shall come to worship before Me,' says the Lord." This is a common SDA "proof text" for requiring the old covenant Sabbath in the new covenant age. It goes like this: If Isaiah prophesies that "new earthers" will keep the Sabbath, then "this earthers" will have to keep it here and now. But how do we know that everyone in the new earth will keep the Sabbath? SDAs simply ignore what Dale Ratzlaff in his excellent book SABBATH IN CRISIS* (page 284) calls ìan important characteristic of OT prophecy. The old covenant prophets, when describing the age to come, described it through old covenant eyes. In other words, old covenant eschatology [ìend-time writingî] is set forth in old covenant terminology.î Isaiah 66:20-21 provides a good example of this ìold covenant terminologyî: The Lord says to captive Israel, ìI will also take some of [the Israelites returning from Babylon to the restored nation of Israel] as PRIESTS and for LEVITES.î At this point, Ratzlaff asks the Adventist apologists, ìWill the Levitical priesthood be restored in the earth made new? The purpose of the Levitical priesthood was to perform the many ceremonies which POINTED FORWARD TO CHRIST. In the presence of God, there would surely be no need for the restoration of this old covenant priestly function.î Ratzlaffís point here is this: If you drag the old covenant Sabbath into the new covenant ìnew earthî setting, then donít you also have to drag in the whole priestly-Levitical sacrificial system right along in with it? For wasn't one prophesied just as strongly, just as legitimately, and with just as much divine fire and inspiration as the other? Why spotlight one part of the prophecy and hide the other? Why keep one and chop off the the other? In other words, if youíre going to drag one old covenant Christ-pointing shadow into the new-covenant new earth, then arenít you going to have to drag in ALL the Christ-pointing old covenant shadows? If Isaiah could foresee that one old covenant shadow (the Sabbath) as a new-covenant ìmust,î then would he not also foresee another old covenant shadow (Levitical priestly system) as a "mustî as well? The SDA logic is flawed with inconsistency: It drags in the Sabbath shadow and leaves out the priestly shadow. It insists that the Sabbath shadow must remain while the sacrificial shadow can be safely ignored. Or can it? To whom does this "earth made new" property belong to anyway? The SDAs? Or the SOVEREIGN God? Remember, God is never mocked, God is never "outshown," God is never outsmarted. Consider the parable of the elephant. Letís call our great and noble beast Old Works, for he represents the old covenant expression of ìthe law and prophets.î Having been always faithful to his duty, Old Works has carried all humankind forward through the ages on his back to Godís drawn ìline in the sand,î where the cross of Christ stands forever planted. Good Old Works. His wrinkled trunk is the Sabbath requirement. His battered right tusk is dietary restriction, such as ìno shrimp cocktail.î His scarred left tusk is the tithing requirement. And his vast back and sides and belly make up the priestly sacrificial system. Good ìOld Works"! The job he was covenanted to do is now done. And very well done at that. With a mighty sigh of relief Old Works looks forward to a well-earned retirement in the pastures of the Lord where the grass grows tall and green and the crystal rivers cascade from the sparkling white granite cliffs into purest lakes shaded by the Creatorís towering broadleaf trees. "Ah," sighs Old Works in the pleasure of upcoming ease. ìBut no!î cry Adventists all. ìOld Works cannot retire! His work is not yet done! Nor will it ever be, until the remnant we, do hang upon his trunk, with Mediator none, and vindicate the character of God!î And with that they grab his trunk, singing, ìDonít forget the Sabbath...." For in their view Old Works must cross God's line in the sand and step from the line of the covenant old into the land of the new! They grab his right tusk ñ ìAnd we need to keep from eating any meat at all, just to be safe. For, quoting Ellen G. White, they protest that "Those who persist in eating the flesh of dead animals will go from Godís people to walk with them no more.î They grab his left trunk ñ ìTo go into the kingdom you must pay your tithe. But ñ psst! ñ you can keep nine tenths of your increase! For the law says you donít have to give it ALL to God! Only a measly tenth!î At his point up steps the aged Isaiah, that far-eyed prophet of Messiah. ìWhat ho?î he cries indignantly. "If you take the trunk and tusks, you must also take the bulk ñ that vast and messy sacrificial system. For the elephant is but one beast and you shall not carve up Old Works as you propose to do!î ìYea! Amen!î chime in all FAFs in unison. ìYou SDAs leave Old Works alone! That mighty beast of burden has done his job so well. Now let Old Works depart in peace and not in pieces! Christ is sufficient for us now!î And so, in the purity of new covenant grace alone, I go, Praising him who died and rose again for all, Jude *Life Assurance Ministries: 1990, Box 3754, Sedona, Arizona 86340, 520.282.4319 | ||
| Bruce H |
Here is another point everybody. Remember that the promises were to Isreal (Rom 9:4) and Jesus said he would sit on the throne of David. So Jesus will bring his Kingdom (Church or saints) with him and He will rule from Jerusalem on the new earth and Isreal will have all the promises of God fulfilled. Maybe that is why they will Keep New Moon sabbaths as well as the weekly sabbath. Isaiah 65:17 17 "For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth; And the former shall not be remembered or come to mind. 18 But be glad and rejoice forever in what I create; For behold, I create Jerusalem as a rejoicing, And her people a joy. 19 I will rejoice in Jerusalem, And joy in My people; The voice of weeping shall no longer be heard in her, Nor the voice of crying. 20 "No more shall an infant from there live but a few days, Nor an old man who has not fulfilled his days; For the child shall die one hundred years old, But the sinner being one hundred years old shall be accursed. So we see in the New Earth there will be death. Why does Isaiah call it the New earth when it is heaven, Maybe it is earth and maybe it is another dispensation where there is still death and Jesus will rule with Isreal like he promised. Bruce | ||
| George |
Can anyone prove that my idea of the 4th commandment referring to the day of the last plague when the first born were killed wrong? I don't mean that you can just point to something else and say "it" is right but to actualy prove it is wrong. Now here is something that will really stir things up. When I first started posting on this forum I argued that "With out Me you can do nothing" was not totaly correct and that we could do some things on our own. The word I got back from everyone was that we in fact can't do anything on our own, not even fill our lungs with air. If that is so then even our thoughts come from Him. And if this is so then what we think is inspired. Well, this being the case, my ideas on the sabbath and the 4th command and day of the 7th plague are inspired by God and correct. What do yu think? Can anyone prove this wrong? George----the Inspired | ||
| Jtree |
Are you a Sabbath breaker of the New Covenant? Jesus is the Sabbath, and if your not RESTING IN CHRIST, then you are in fact breaking the New Covenant Sabbath. Want proof? List to this real audio message. Using such passages as below: http://gracegospelchurch.net/sermons/geas0008.ram Leviticus 26: 1-46. 1 "`Do not make idols or set up an image or a sacred stone for yourselves, and do not place a carved stone in your land to bow down before it. I am the LORD your God. 2 "`Observe my Sabbaths and have reverence for my sanctuary. I am the LORD. 3 "`If you follow my decrees and are careful to obey my commands, 4 I will send you rain in its season, and the ground will yield its crops and the trees of the field their fruit. 5 Your threshing will continue until grape harvest and the grape harvest will continue until planting, and you will eat all the food you want and live in safety in your land. 6 "`I will grant peace in the land, and you will lie down and no one will make you afraid. I will remove savage beasts from the land, and the sword will not pass through your country. 7 You will PURSUE YOUR ENEMIES, and THEY WILL FALL BY THE SWORD before you. 8 Five of you will chase a hundred, and a hundred of you will chase ten thousand, and your enemies will fall by the sword before you. 9 "`I will look on you with favor and make you fruitful and increase your numbers, and I will keep my covenant with you. 10 You will still be eating last year's harvest when you will have to move it out to make room for the new. 11 I will put my dwelling place among you, and I will not abhor you. 12 I will walk among you and be your God, and you will be my people. 13 I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt so that you would no longer be slaves to the Egyptians; I broke the bars of your yoke and enabled you to walk with heads held high. 14 "`But if you will not listen to me and carry out all these commands, 15 and if you reject my decrees and abhor my laws and fail to carry out all my commands and so violate my covenant, 16 then I will do this to you: I will bring upon you sudden terror, wasting diseases and fever that will DESTROY YOUR SIGHT and drain away your life. YOU WILL PLANT SEED IN VAIN, because your enemies will eat it. 17 I will set my face against you so that you will be defeated by your enemies; those who hate you will rule over you, and you will flee even when no one is pursuing you. 18 "`If after all this you will not listen to me, I will punish you for your sins seven times over. 19 I will break down your stubborn pride and make the sky above you like iron and the ground beneath you like bronze. 20 Your strength will be spent in vain, because YOUR SOIL WILL NOT YIELD IT'S CROPS, NOR WILL THE TREES OF THE LAND YIELD THEIR FRUIT. 21 "`If you remain hostile toward me and refuse to listen to me, I will multiply your afflictions seven times over, as your sins deserve. 22 I will send WILD ANIMALS AGAINST YOU, and they will rob you of your children, destroy your cattle and make you so few in number that your roads will be deserted. 23 "`If in spite of these things you do not accept my correction but continue to be hostile toward me, 24 I myself will be hostile toward you and will afflict you for your sins seven times over. *25 AND I WILL BRING THE SWORD UPON YOU TO AVENGE THE BREAKING OF THE COVENANT. When you withdraw into your cities, I will send a plague among you, and you will be given into enemy hands. 26 When I cut off YOUR SUPPLY OF BREAD, ten women will be able to bake your bread in one oven, and they will dole out the bread by weight. You will eat, but you will not be satisfied. 27 "`If in spite of this you still do not listen to me but continue to be hostile toward me, 28 then in my anger I will be hostile toward you, and I myself will punish you for your sins seven times over. 29 You will eat the flesh of your sons and the flesh of your daughters. 30 I will destroy your high places, cut down your incense altars and pile your dead bodies on the LIFELESS FORMS OF YOUR IDOLS, and I will abhor you. 31 I will turn your cities into ruins and lay waste your sanctuaries, and I will take no delight in the pleasing aroma of your offerings. 32 I will lay waste the land, so that your enemies who live there will be appalled. 33 I will scatter you among the nations and will draw out my sword and pursue you. Your land will be laid waste, and your cities will lie in ruins. 34 THEN THE LAND WILL ENJOY IT'S SABBATH YEARS all the time that it lies desolate and you are in the country of your enemies; then the land will REST and enjoy its sabbaths. 35 All the time that it lies desolate, the land will have the rest it did not have during the sabbaths you lived in it. 36 "`As for those of you who are left, I will make their hearts so fearful in the lands of their enemies that the sound of a windblown leaf will put them to flight. They will run as though fleeing from the sword, and they will fall, even though no one is pursuing them. 37 They will stumble over one another as though fleeing from the sword, even though no one is pursuing them. So you will not be able to stand before your enemies. 38 You will perish among the nations; the land of your enemies will devour you. 39 Those of you who are left will waste away in the lands of their enemies because of their sins; also because of their fathers' sins they will waste away. 40 "`But if they will confess their sins and the sins of their fathers--their treachery against me and their hostility toward me, 41 which made me hostile toward them so that I sent them into the land of their enemies--then when their UNCIRCUMCISED HEARTS are HUMBLED and they pay for their sin, 42 I will remember my covenant with Jacob and my covenant with Isaac and my covenant with Abraham, and I will remember the land. 43 For the land will be deserted by them and will enjoy its sabbaths while it lies desolate without them. They will pay for their sins because they rejected my laws and abhorred my decrees. 44 Yet in spite of this, when they are in the land of their enemies, I will not reject them or abhor them so as to destroy them completely, breaking my covenant with them. I am the LORD their God. 45 But for their sake I will remember the covenant with their ancestors whom I brought out of Egypt in the sight of the nations to be their God. I am the LORD.'" 46 These are the decrees, the laws and the regulations that the LORD established on Mount Sinai between Himself and the Israelites through Moses. For more information please listen to this audio online. This is called Sabbath Breakers..and I hope you are blessed and that it gives you great insight to what it means to be a Sabbath Breaker in the New Testiment. Max, IF you don't have REAL AUDIO, Perhaps some of who get the chance to hear this message, can give you MORE SCRIPTURE, I am quite sure you would love to listen to this awsome message. God Bless everyone on this Wonderful Lord's Day morning. |
