| Author | Message | ||
| Steve Pitcher |
Hi All, The link below is kind of fun. SDAism claims to be a continuation of the Protestant Reformation. Some of the statements on the link are quite telling. Perhaps we've been more Catholic than we'd like to admit. Good Luck! http://www.sovgrace.org/Are%20You.html | ||
| Plain Patti |
It is very true, Steve. We are discussing this right now on another forum. The doctrine of salvation in the SDA church is almost identical to the Catholic. It was this point mainly (the question being placed in my mind by Geoffrey Paxton) that caused me to open up my Bible and find out what was really there for myself. I will send you privately an invitation to join this other forum, if you are interested. | ||
| Plain Patti |
From another forum: Allow me to summarize Catholic beliefs and SDA. Please contrast these with the reformed faith: Catholics: Justification comes of faith that works in love SDA: Justification comes of faith that works in love Reformers: Justification is by faith alone in the merits of Christ alone Catholics: Justification means to be made right with God. SDA: Justification means to be made right with God. Reformers: Justification means to be declared righteous. Catholics: Jesus was our perfect example. We are called to imitate His life. SDA: Jesus was our perfect example. We are called to imitate His life. Reformers: Jesus was primarily our Substitute. He was God, and did what sinful humans could never do. Catholics: Grace is the divine gift that God bestows upon us, forgiving us and enabling us to serve Him. SDA: Grace is the divine gift that God bestows upon us, forgiving us and enabling us to serve Him. Reformers: Grace is God's favor and forgiveness toward undeserving sinners. Catholics: Original sin is not unto eternal death. SDA: Original sin is not unto eternal death. Reformers: Man, from the moment he is born, is totally sinful, totally lost. Catholics: There are levels or "degrees" of sinfulness; some sins are worse than others. SDA: There are levels or "degrees" of sinfulness; some sins are worse than others. Reformers: All sin is equally "sinful" and merits eternal death for the sinner. Catholics: God forgives sins; therefore, each individual sin must be confessed. SDA: God forgives sins; therefore, each individual sin must be confessed. Reformers: God forgives sinners. Completely. Catholics: Sin is what we do. SDA: Sin is what we do. Reformers: Sin is what we are. Catholics: Penance must be performed before God will forgive. SDA: Great remorse must be displayed before God will forgive. Reformers: God forgives sinners. Completely. Catholics: We are saved by Christ's work on earth and His work in our hearts. SDA: We are saved by Christ's work on earth, in heaven, and in our hearts. Reformers: We are saved by the doing and dying of Christ alone. Catholic: The authority for issues concerning our faith comes from the Bible, tradition, and guidance from the Pope. SDA: The authority for issues concerning our faith comes from the Bible as illuminated by the "spirit of prophecy." Reformers: The authority for issues concerning our faith is in the Bible alone. Catholic: The Pope is God's highest authority on this earth. SDA: The GC is God's highest authority on this earth. Reformers: The Holy Spirit is God's highest authority on this earth. This is just for starters. I am sure someone could add to this list. | ||
| Jude the Obscure |
Excellent, Patti! | ||
| Steve Pitcher |
Good stuff Patti. I'd like to copy that and use it if I may. Last year, when I started allowing all of the "attacks" on SDAism to get to me, I read The Shaking of Adventism, by Geoffrey Paxton. It amazed me how much SDAism is like Catholicism. I attended the General Conference in Indianapolis, Indiana (USA) in 1990. I thought that I was attending God's conference. I now look at that thought as ridiculous. In light of that experience, I thought that the following from Paxton was very revealing. I'm NOT BORROWING : ) I'm quoting. From p. 152, footnote #2. At a General Conference worship, Jan. 9,1976, Robert H. Pierson said: "When you and I joined the General Conference family something special happened to us. When we begin work in the General Conference office we become part of what inspiration describes as God's highest authority on earth. . . . As those of us here on the General Conference staff continue our unique service for Him, let us remember that we are daily, hourly, momentarily a part of a group of leaders that constitute the highest authority of God upon earth . . ." (Robert H. Pierson, The Ministry, June 1976). Pope Paul, please take note! (A thoughtful observer could not but see that this Rome-like ecclesiology springs from a soteriology of the same character.) Paxton's book helped open my eyes. The church is becoming exactly what it fears the most -- Roman Catholic. Of course, just because leaders probably are more careful with their words, does not mean that the feelings of being associated with God's "unique" work on earth are any less real. Makes me wonder who might end up playing the role of the beast, false prophet, and image to the beast in the "end". Come out of her all you people. But who are we to come out of? And where are we to go? I know that there are many very extreme offshoots of SDAism. However, those churches that have left SDAism have gone "back" (forward, I would say) into Evangelical Christianity. I would like to suggest that those of us who have become disenchanted with SDAism, especially as we realize the gross doctrinal errors, that we move into the Evangelical churches. At least Protestantism, as long as it doesn't get mired in the various denominational distinctives, is what Luther, Calvin, Zwingli and others fought so hard for. As Adventists, we thought we were part of the Protestant Reformation. As Former Adventists, we have the opportunity to move into that Reformation. After looking at a number of official websites of some of the major evangelical churches, there are some differences, but they all have the same basic message. Of course, how each individual church interprets that message could be different. That's why it's important to check out each church. I know that even thinking of going to a church can be repulsive to some of us. I even thought of throwing it ALL away. I thought I was disenchanted with Christianity. But I was wrong. I was really disenchanted with SDAism. In the confusion, let's not lose sight of the fact that Jesus set us free. And those who are free, are free indeed. Steve | ||
| Jude the Obscure |
I'm praising God because of you, Steve. | ||
| Timo K |
Patti, Can I also copy your comparation and send it possible to a Finnish forum, by giving credit to you of course? timo | ||
| Steve Pitcher |
Just to add one item to Patti's list: Catholic: Grace is bestowed by means of the Eucharist. SDA: Grace is bestowed by observing the Sabbath. (See Dan Smith, Symbols of Grace, main sermon at La Sierra SDA church, 4/1/00) Reformers: Grace is bestowed by freely accepting it from God. | ||
| Bruce H |
Steve I have your book with the 613 commandments I will try to get it to you. Great line above about the G.C. Bruce | ||
| Plain Patti |
Timo and Steve, Absolutely, use the material! Add to it also, because it is not nearly exhaustive. Steve, I wrote a long message to you concerning where to go from here, as far as church membership is concerned, but, somehow, it got lost and never posted. Anyway, the crux of what I said is this: Tap your heels together three times while you repeat: "There is no true church denomination, there is no true church denomination." | ||
| Steve Pitcher |
Nice line Patti. Which reminds me of another one from the same movie. From now on, I'll not go looking for adventure outside my own backyard. (Having come to Christ in 1974, I had almost 10 years as a non-SDA Christian before converting to SDAism 15 years ago. I should have investigated more fully, but I also believe I was misled. I should have stayed in my own backyard.) | ||
| Colleentinker |
Steve, you make such a great point about our finally joining the Reformation! Richard just said, "I can't believe how deceived we were! Of all the churches, Adventism is probably the most like the Catholics of all!" It reminds me of the movie entitled, "Hide in Plain Sight". That's what the Adventists have done! | ||
| Patti |
SOME THOUGHTS ON JUSTIFICATION URL: http://www.presenttruthmag.com/archive.htm 1. "Restoration of the great truth of justification by faith-upon which the church stands or falls-depends, therefore, upon the recovery of history. The truth once so fearlessly and nobly exalted must again be unfurled for a new and final Reformation. Thus alone can the church go forth "fair as the moon, clear as the sun, and terrible as an army with banners" (S. Sol. 6:10). "Unfortunately, we look in vain upon the American scene for any significant institutional perception or support of the great Reformation insights. Even conservative evangelical Protestantism has so far lost contact with its own heritage that it scarcely differs from Roman Catholicism in its most fundamental religious emphasis." 2. "By Grace Alone the Source of Justification "Being justified freely by His [the Father's] grace ... Grace means mercy and favor shown to one who is lost and undeserving. In order to guard the absolute gratuitous nature of justification, Paul says that sinners are justified freely by God's grace. The word "freely" means "without a cause" (see John 15:25). No amount of believing, obeying, repenting or character building ever causes God to regard a man as just in His sight. Someone has appropriately said that justification by grace means the divine acceptance of unacceptable people. "It is most important to notice also that Paul is not just talking about becoming justified at the commencement of the Christian life. He uses the present continuous tense of the verb "Being justified This includes the state of remaining justified as much as the act of becoming justified. This means that we can never get past justification by grace. We can never remain in God's favor except by pure mercy. Grace finds us sinners, and we remain justified just as long as we remain sinners in our own eyes. If at any time we could stand acceptable before God because of faith, obedience or moral excellence, it would no longer be justification by grace. "Justification by faith brings radical changes in the believer's life (peace, joy, love, regeneration, sanctification, obedience, etc.). Yet in this life it remains that the believer is righteous only by faith, never by visible reality. It is his faith which is counted for righteousness, not his regeneration, sanctification, obedience or Christian character. Righteousness by faith means that the believer's righteousness is not on earth, but in heaven; not in himself, but in Jesus Christ. Man can never find perfection or fulfillment in himself within the historical process. This is only realized in Jesus Christ (Col. 2:9, 10). He is not on earth, but in heaven; and the believer possesses perfection and fulfillment only by faith. "True, he is given the Holy Spirit as the guarantee of his inheritance in Christ (Eph. 1:13, 14), but this is only the "first fruits of the Spirit," the down payment and pledge given until the day of final redemption (Rom. 8:2325; Eph. 4:30). The possession of the Spirit does not lead the believer to feel that he has arrived or to think he can find satisfaction in his own experience. Rather does the Spirit stimulate him with earnest longing for the day of Christ, when he shall receive an infilling of the Spirit not possible in this life." 3. "Rome and the Reformers both declared that a man is justified by God's work of grace. It is all-important that we see the real contrast between the Roman and the Reformation faiths: "Rome: Justified by God's work of grace in man. "Reformation: Justified by God's work of grace in Christ. "The real difference between Rome and the Reformation was in fundamental emphasis. Romanism is essentially subjective-it is man-centered, experience-centered. The Reformation faith was objective-it was Christ-centered. "The focal point of Catholic theology is God's work of grace within human experience. That is why it is so devastating to Christian freedom. Man is a prisoner because his own experience has become the center of his concern. Catholic doctrine adds despair to grief by basing a man's standing with God on what grace does within him. "If a man's acceptance and right standing with God depend upon God's grace within his own heart, then he must ask himself, "How much grace must I have operative in me before I can stand justified before God? How prayerful, repentant, loving or obedient must grace make me before God can accept me?" This was the problem that confronted that devout Augustinian monk, Martin Luther. While he based his right standing with God on God's work of grace in his heart, he could never be sure that he had enough of God's grace in his heart. In fact, the more he looked within his own experience to find a basis of his acceptance with God, the more he was tormented by the sight of his own sinfulness. "Then came the enlightenment of the gospel in the rediscovery of Paul's doctrine of justification. Says the apostle: " . . . being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus." Rom. 3:24. The New English Bible translates the passage: " . . . all are justified by God's free grace alone, through His act of liberation in the person of Christ Jesus." This shows us that rather than being justified by what God does within us, we are justified by what God did altogether outside of us. God accomplished His act of liberation for all men in Jesus Christ. Here is the dividing of the way between Rome and the Reformation. Rome declares that a man is justified by God's work of grace in his heart. The Reformation declares that a man is justified by God's work of grace in Jesus Christ." 4. John Knox was dying. Some of his friends were gathered around his bed. The Reformer related how Satan made his final effort to steal away his hope of salvation. First he tried to shake his faith by pointing to the sins of his life, the follies of his youth and the failures of his ministry. When Knox had vanquished the adversary with the mighty argument of the blood of Christ, Satan presented his final temptation. He whispered to the Reformer, "Surely God will have mercy on you. You have nothing to fear, for see how the Holy Spirit has wrought in your life to bring the evangelical faith to Scotland." But John Knox knew that his salvation and right standing with God did not even rest on the Holy Spirit's work in him. It was grounded solely on what Christ had done for him. Roman Catholicism teaches that there is saving merit in the Holy Spirit's work in the human heart. But there are also many Protestants who today fall for this error of the mystery of iniquity, for they reason: "Is not the Holy Spirit a Person of the God-head? Is not His work as meritorious as Jesus' work? Is there not saving merit in imparted righteousness? I know I cannot trust in my own work for salvation, but surely I can rest my salvation in what the Holy Spirit does in me." How little do they realize that they are voicing the sentiments of the papacy! | ||
| Max |
Dear Patti, That was a wonderful quote. Nothing in it argues even slightly with what I've been saying about real grace. You will not be able to find a single sentence in all of Luther or all of Calvin to say that real grace does not change lives. And so the challenge remains: 2 Corinthians 9:8 NIV: ^^ God is able to make all grace abound to you, so that in all things at all times, having all that you need, you will abound in every good work. ^^ Do you accept or deny this text? Under real grace alone, Max | ||
| Colleen Tinker (Colleentinker) |
Real grace is unmerited. And real grace absolutely changes lives. Praise God for Grace!! Colleen | ||
| Patti |
Max, The thing that concerns me a bit about your view of "grace" is that it has shades of RCism in it. Not that that in itself makes it wrong; it is a complete approach to salvation. The reformers saw grace as God's infinite mercy only. The RCC teaches that God's grace is not merely His forgiveness and acceptance of hopeless sinners because of Jesus Christ, but a very real infusion into the believer that actually makes the believer acceptable to God. Reformers--We are declared righteous by the grace of God for the sake of Jesus Christ; RCC (and SDA)--We are declared righteous and then the grace of God comes into our hearts and makes our works acceptable to God. The differences, again, may seem slight; but on them revolved the whole Reformation. The crux of the matter: Are we merely "declared" righteous by God, as the Reformers claimed; or are we actually "made" acceptable to God by an infusion of His grace? In another post, I will show you the implications of each of these theories. In the meantime, here is an article written by an RCC Scholar. See where you stand in regard to the RCC/SDA view of grace. From this URL: http://www.presenttruthmag.com/archive/XX/20-2.htm Please read the following passage by a noted RCC scholar and see how the Catholic position toward grace relates to your own. The RCC and SDA doctrine of grace and of justification are virtually identical. Introduction: The New Testament writers, especially Paul, are so emphatic that salvation is by grace alone that it seems difficult to understand how a professedly Bible-believing Christian body could deny this cardinal doctrine of the New Testament (see Rom. 3:24,28; 4:5; 11:6; Gal. 2:16-21; Eph. 2:8-10; Titus 3:5-8). The first notable and open challenge to basic biblical teaching on salvation and grace came from the Pelagian heresy, which began about A.D. 400. Pelagius was a British monk and a rigorously ascetical man. He denied that man was born in sin, insisted that his will was entirely free, and taught that by its exercise man was able to live a holy life. In the real Christian sense Pelagius denied the need of grace, for he overlooked the profound struggle between good and evil within man. Augustine was a contemporary of Pelagius and the greatest of the Latin fathers of the Church. He vigorously opposed Pelagian views and set forth the doctrine of man's inborn sinful depravity and his need of divine grace for inner renewal and power for obedience. The early councils of the Church condemned Pelagianism as heresy and placed their benediction on the theology of Augustine. The attitude of Roman Catholicism to Pelagianism is expressed as follows in the authoritative Catholic book, The Life of Grace, by P. Gregory Stevens, O.S.B.: ====================== In a number of fifth-century councils the Church consecrated various Augustinian formulas and statements, using them to express her own divine faith. The dependence of man on the transcendent divine causality, made real in the order of grace, is one of the things affirmed: "God works in man many good things which do not depend on man (which man himself does not produce), but man does nothing good which God does not give him the power to do." (D193; II Council of Orange, Can. 20, A.D. 529: taken from St. Augustine, Against Two Letters of Pelogius, IX, 21; PL44,586.) In this passage is affirmed the need on man's part of grace and divine assistance for all good works. Augustine did not clearly distinguish what we would call God's natural assistance, by which all beings in creation are maintained in existence and action, from his supernatural grace, by which men are enabled to do good works beyond the power and capability of nature. Yet in the context of the Pelagian controversy this text applies primarily to the need of genuine supernatural grace for good moral action. The council thus uses Augustine's words to affirm a fundamental element of Catholic teaching on the real need of grace. The Council of Carthage condemns those (the Pelagians) who hold that grace "has the power only for the forgiveness of sins . . . and is not also an assistance to avoid sins in the future." (D103, Can. 3) This denies the Pelagian position that grace is only a forgiveness of sin granted after a wrong use of freedom; it likewise denies the Pelagian understanding of forgiveness as something merely external or juridical. The council goes on to affirm that grace is a gift and an aid in the effort to avoid sin. In its fourth canon the council condemns the purely external Pelagian understanding of grace. Convicted of error are those who would say "that God's grace through Jesus Christ our Lord helps us avoid sin solely because it gives us a clear knowledge... of... the commandments, but deny that through this grace there is given to us an ability and a love of doing what we know should be done." (D104; TCT528) The view of the Pelagians that grace is merely something which makes easier the doing of what is good, "as if to say that if grace were not given, it would be, not indeed easy, but truly possible to obey God's commandments without grace" (D105; TCT529, Can. 5) is likewise declared to be false and heretical. Thus grace is not something merely pleasant and helpful. It is in fact demanded if man is to observe the commandments and lead a good life. The "Catalogue of Errors," called in Latin Indiculus de Gratia Dei, was a collection of statements drawn up perhaps by St. Prosper of Aquitaine and then universally accepted as giving true Catholic teaching. The following brief extracts oppose the Pelagian doctrine: "No one is capable of rising from the depths of this loss (in original sin) by his own free will, if the grace of the merciful God does not lift him up." (D130; TCT368) "Unless He alone who is good (God himself) grants a participation of himself, no one of himself is good." (D131; cf. TCT534.) This document then affirms the need of the daily help of grace for the living of the good life (D132; TCT535), and goes on to say: "All the efforts, and all the works and merits of the saints must be attributed to ... God, because no one can please God with anything that is not his own gift." (D134; TCT536) The whole matter is thus summarized: "God so works in the hearts of man and in free will that the holy thought, the religious purpose, and every movement of a good will are from God, because it is through him that we can do any good, and without him we can do nothing." (D135; cf. TCT537.) The solemn voice of the Church here approves the intuitions of St. Augustine in condemning Pelagianism as a system which destroys the heart of the reality of divine grace. The Catholic, therefore, professes his dependence on the love and mercy of God, in virtue of which alone he is redeemed and given the real, internal help of grace to live a life pleasing to God. In his whole religious attitude the Catholic acknowledges that he is saved not by his own power, not through his "independent" free will and strength, but through the grace of Christ. Thus in the fifth century did the Church through her councils and bishops, and through the profound religious mind of Augustine, reassert the basic truths taught in the New Testament. It is only in acknowledging by faith the truth of our own reality in relation to God that we become fully ourselves, and alive in the grace of God. Semi-Pelagianism In opposition to some of Augustine's thought, but owing also in part to misunderstandings of some of his polemical positions, there were those in the fifth century who felt that man's freedom had been excessively limited by Augustine and that his doctrine on predestination removed all possibility of an initial, free cooperation of man with grace. To defend their view of these questions, the so-called semi-Pelagians, centered in monastic circles of southern France, thought it necessary to reserve at least the first step toward grace to man: to see in the initial conversion of man to the life of grace a movement wholly dependent on man's free will and natural goodness. Put another way, the position of semi-Pelagians denied the need of grace for the initial conversion of man's free will and natural goodness. In other words, the semi-Pelagians denied the need of grace for the initial conversion of man to God. There was error in the failure to recognize that the whole process of man's salvation from the moment of first conversion to that of final perseverance is the result of God's grace. Salvation is an entirely gratuitous gift which enables man to take even the first step toward God; it enables him thereafter to act well and to persevere in grace. It is this total need for grace which the Church reaffirmed on the occasion of the semi-Pelagian heresy. The Church's Teaching The position of the Church is found in the "Catalogue of Errors" (Indiculus) previously mentioned. Again the fundamental insights of St. Augustine are used to express the Catholic teaching: We profess that God is the author of all good desires and deeds, of all efforts and virtues, with which from the beginning of faith man tends to God. And we do not doubt that his grace anticipates every one of man's merits, and that it is through him that we begin both the will and the performance of any good work. To be sure, free will is not destroyed by this help and strength from God, but it is freed; so that from darkness it is brought to light, from evil to good, from sickness to health, from ignorance to prudence. For such is God's goodness to men that he wills that his gifts be our merits, and that he will grant us an eternal reward for what he has given us. Indeed, God so acts in us that we both will and do what he wills. . . . And he acts in this manner so that we are cooperators with his grace. (D141; TCT542) The Second Council of Orange (in southern France, A.D. 529) made particularly clear the Church's condemnation of the semi-Pelagians. The decisions of the council were approved by Pope Boniface II in A.D. 531. The council teaches that "even the desire to be cleansed (from sin) is accomplished through the infusion and the interior working of the Holy Spirit." (D177; TCT544, Can. 4) Furthermore, the first beginnings of conversion to God are the work of his grace, so that the "grace of faith is not found in the free will of all who desire to be baptized, but is conferred through the generosity of Christ." (D199; TCT548; cf. D178f; TCT545f.) The true doctrine is summarized thus: We also believe and profess for our salvation that in every good work it is not that we make a beginning and afterwards are helped through God's mercy, but rather, that without any previous good merits on our part, God himself first inspires us with faith in him and love of him so that we may faithfully seek the sacrament of baptism, and so that after baptism, with his help, we may be able to accomplish what is pleasing to him. (D200; TCT549) Thus it is clearly Catholic teaching that God anticipates our good works by his grace, and that our union with him is the effect of his gifts to us. God does not destroy free will, but so gives his grace that we cooperate freely with it. In the thought of St. Augustine, we thus acquire true freedom: a delivery from the slavery of sin. Yet if man cooperates, and is never merely a dumb or passive tool of God's, he yet depends on God's grace for the entire work of salvation. The Church in the fifth century thus gave definitive expression to the reality of man's relationship of grateful dependence on the gratuitous love of God. - (Washington, D.C.: The Catholic University of America, 1963), pp.46-49. ======================= Any focus on the believer is a giant step back to the SDA (or RCC) church, and back into bondage. Grace and peace, Patti | ||
| Patti |
The Theology o~ Grace by Jean Daujat (RCC scholar) Certain people after hearing a sermon or reading a pious book have an idea that by grace is meant some sort of assistance which God gives us to facilitate our own efforts or complete the merits of our good actions. But since they do not know in what such assistance consists, or know only that it is something incomprehensible, they think vaguely that it is simpler not to concern themselves with it and that, on a last analysis, the surer means of saving their souls is to count upon themselves and the merits of their good deeds. So convinced are they that they can save themselves and gain eternal life through their virtuous lives, that they fall into the Pelagian heresy, which is explained later in this book, for many Christians are Pelagians without knowing it. . . . Sinful man cannot, of himself, be pleasing to God. For that, he must receive a gift from God which transforms him interiorly, cleanses him and sanctifies him by adorning him with qualities that render him pleasing to his Creator. Already, then, we see grace not only as a pure gift of God, which man does not deserve and cannot obtain by himself, but as something which, once given, completely changes him, by purifying him inwardly from sin, and rendering him good and holy. By his grace, God communicates to man the holiness of which he is himself the fountainhead. This first analysis enables us to avoid the great heresies of which we shall treat later - Pelagianism, since grace is shown to be a pure gift of God, which man cannot of himself obtain or merit, and the Lutheran and Calvinist heresies, since through this grace man ceases to be a sinner and is made truly virtuous and holy. The Old Testament well says that grace is the gift of God: And I will give favour to this people,1 And the Lord will give favour2; And the Lord gave favour to the people.3 To Judith it was said: The God of our fathers give thee grace.4 But this grace or "favour" is really goodness and interior holiness. He that is good, shall draw grace from the Lord5; the grace of God, and his mercy is with his saints.6 The most complete example in the Old Testament, although the actual word "grace" does not occur in it, is to be found in Ezechiel: "I will pour upon you clean water, and you shall be cleansed from all your filthiness, and I will cleanse you from all your idols. And I will give you a new heart, and put a new spirit within you."7 The fact remains that the exact and fundamental meaning of these Old Testament texts can be grasped only because the New Testament has taught us to understand the full significance of the word "grace." Prepared by the former, the full revelation of the reality belongs to the latter. The Gospel, in particular, uses the word to express the work of God in Jesus Christ, who is stated to be "full of grace",8 and as having the grace of God in him,9 and in Mary, who is greeted as "full of grace." Thus it is the sanctity of Jesus and Mary that is the work of God. But it is in the teaching of St. Paul that the word was used as a matter of course in the precise sense which came to be reserved for it in Catholic theology: that is, in the sense of a holiness which sinful man can neither have by any means of his own, nor merit by his works and his virtues, but which is given, or freely imparted to him, as a pure gift of God who, at the same time, both cleanses him and sanctifies him. For example, St. Paul tells us that we are "justified freely by his grace",10 and that we are "saved according to the election of grace, and if by grace it is not now by works: otherwise grace is no more grace".11 To the Corinthians, he writes: "By the grace of God I am what I am",12 and speaks to the Ephesians of "Christ, by whose grace you are saved... for by grace you are saved ... and that not of yourselves, for it is the gift of God".13 He reminds Timothy that "God has called us by his holy calling, not according to our own works, but according to his own purpose and grace".14 And again: "To every one of us is given grace, according to the measure of the giving of Christ."15 The same Apostle writes to Titus: "That being justified by his grace, we may be heirs according to the hope of life everlasting",16 and again to the Ephesians that God has "predestinated us unto the praise of the glory of his grace, in which he hath graced us in his beloved Son".17 . . . God the Author of Salvation and Sanctification We have already quoted St. Paul's words to the Romans: The charity of God is poured forth in our hearts by the Holy Spirit whom we have received.18 Charity is the life of Christ present in us by the Holy Spirit. It is Jesus who, dwelling in us through the gift of the Holy Spirit, loves God perfectly in us through the Holy Spirit by whom we are animated and moved. So St. Teresa of Lisieux could write: "When I am charitable, it is only our Lord acting in me." Of ourselves, we are incapable of a single movement of love, unless it comes to us by the grace of Christ abiding in us by the Holy Spirit. So supernatural life is made real in us through acts inspired by charity, which are truly one act in which we love God with the perfect love wherewith he loves himself: in which, therefore, his whole divine life is communicated to us. But we perform these acts, of which we are incapable by ourselves, only through the action of grace moving us interiorly. By ourselves, we are capable only of natural or human good works, which are of no v~value for attaining the true object of our life which is life eternal. Our Lord has taught us: "Nobody can come to me without being attracted towards me by the Father",19 that is, without the grace by which the Father adopts us in Jesus Christ as his children. Without that life of Christ engendered in us by the Father we cannot bear any supernatural fruit. Our Lord tells us again: "The branch that does not live on in the vine can yield no fruit of itself; no more can you; if you do not live on in me. I am the vine, you are its branches. If a man lives on in me, and I in him, then he will yield abundant fruit; separated from me, you have no power to do anything." That is why on the third Sunday after Pentecost, the Church prays: "0 God, . . . without whom is nothing strong, nothing holy." St. Teresa of Avila has written: "Without grace nothing is possible to us, for of ourselves we cannot think one good thought." The Council of Trent has proclaimed definitively: "As the head over the members and the vine over the branches, Christ Jesus continually exercises his influence upon souls that are justified, and this influence always precedes and accompanies their good acts. Without it, these works can in no way be pleasing to God or meritorious." The same Council condemns as heretical "to say that a man may be rendered just before God by means of the works accomplished, whether by means of his natural and human capabilities, or by keeping the commandments, and without the grace of Christ"; and "to say that without the forestalling action of the Holy Spirit and his help, man can believe, hope, love or repent in the manner that is necessary if he is to obtain grace." From these quotations it is clear that there exists no merit anterior to grace, of which man would be capable by himself, and by means of which he would obtain grace. A grace that we could deserve and obtain by ourselves would be ours by right, and so would not be a pure gift and therefore not grace. Of ourselves, we have not, and cannot have, merit, virtue or holiness. It is Jesus Christ, living in us, substituting his life of grace for our natural, sinful life, who is our merit and our sanctity. We are capable of meritorious and holy living only in the measure in which we have renounced the sinful, natural life inherited from Adam, our desires and impulses that are purely sensuous, as also our own opinions and self-will, in order to live henceforth the "Christ-life" that must permeate everything in us. That is what is meant by "renouncing Satan, and all his pomps and works" at Baptism. - A Faith and Fact Book (London: Burns & Oates, 1959). | ||
| Max |
Dear Patti, Thanks for refreshing my memory with your excerpts from Roman Catholic sources. Reminds me of my care-free days in graduate school studying Reformation theology, Roman Catholic theology, philosophical theology, the history of Christian theology, Christology, etc. I specialized in the Reformed theology of Karl Barth. I notice that one of the Roman Catholic authorities you quoted says this: ^^ Lutheran and Calvinist heresies [are wrong], since through this grace man ceases to be a sinner and is made truly virtuous and holy. ^^ Now, it seems to me that I am saying exactly what this RCC authority condemns in Luther and Calvin. So would it not seem so to you? Under life-changing grace alone, Max | ||
| Patti |
Lutheran and Calvinist heresies [are wrong], since through this grace man ceases to be a sinner and is made truly virtuous and holy. I think you misinterpreted. The author is not saying that Luther and Calvin believe that "through this grace man ceases to be a sinner and is made truly virtuous and holy." He is saying that HE believes this, as does the RCC, and that Luther and Calvin are wrong because they DO NOT believe it. | ||
| Cindy |
Patti, I can't believe how much has been posted since Sunday night! It's taken awhile to catch up! I will throw in a few of my thoughts too. I really agree with you that to put the focus back on the believer puts us back in bondage!! Yes, we can share our own individual, personal testimony of what God has done for us. But the POWER in in the preaching of the CROSS, Jesus Christ crucified for us!! This should be our primary message to tell others, not our changed lives. I've talked to a number of Mormons and Jehovah Witnesses who point to the truth of their message because such a wonderful change has been wrought in their lives. Even the peace their new way of understanding has brought them! Mormons make good neighbors; we lived among them for three years in Idaho. And Jehovah Witnesses can be wonderful also. I remember studying with two fun-loving women for over a year about 14 years ago. When we moved from that area they were there helping us move and even bringing over a complete meal along with some good crab dip for the crackers! (Just last Saturday two J.W.s came to my door and of course I can't help talking! When they found out my background, one of them said he had been raised a S.D.A. and left it about 20 years ago. He has now found the truth...) And, of course, we all have heard testimonies of changed lives of those who have come into Adventism; how they've endured persecution, etc, but have now found the truth. And many are cured of various addictions, become more loving, more responsible, etc. But what is the place they give to JESUS? Do they see salvation as a gift, TOTALLY UNMERITED in regards to what man does? If Christ is not our Complete, Perfect Righteousness for the start, middle, and end of our new birth lives here on earth, it is not a righteousness of and from God. We do not preach changed lives, but a Perfect Substitute, a Perfect Life given for us! Maybe we'll be debating back and forth on this faith and good works issue forever. I have just seen that when we emphasize the fruit of the spirit over the glorious work of Christ, it can lead to pride or despair. Run to Christ, admit you are a hopeless sinner, in need of His great Mercy always!! Let Him change you, (and He Will!) in HIS own time and way. Resting in His Perfect Life, Cindy |
