| Author | Message | ||
| Susan |
LoneV., I'm with you! The fake meat products of this world make me rather sick. Give me the real stuff or give me nothing!!! I'd rather live on fruits, veggies and bread than to eat immitation meat. I still gag when I smell stripples (sp?) cooking at my mom's! Perhaps there won't be meat served in heaven. But I'm pretty positive that there won't be any Loma Linda products served either! "If any of you lacks wisdom, he should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to him." James 1:5 I don't read anything here about gaining special or more wisdom, when you abstain from certain foods. Has this verse been quoted yet? Even if it has it's worth repeating! "The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth. For everything God created is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving because it is consecrated by the word of God and prayer" 1Tim.4:1-5 AMEN!!! When I first read this as a Christian I started to cry. I had to read it several times because I couldn't believe it was actually there. I see EGW as the hypocritical liar who preached a message from demons. But what I love about this verse is that God is so much bigger then any false doctrines. Everything He created is good! NOTHING is to be rejected if it has been consecrated to Him! (I guess that means I shouldn't be so hard on soy products!) By all means we should be treating our bodies well. But I take this to mean moderation! With sugar, meat, alcohol (if it's not a problem for you), coffee, etc.. I want to make it very clear that I am not refering to times of fasting in any way here. I have total respect for people who fast for prayer or during Lent. This is very biblical and can be an enormously spiritual thing. Enough for now. All this talk of food has made me hungry! I think I'll have BLT and coffee for lunch! God bless, Susan | ||
| Chyna |
to be honest, southern Baptists are waaaaaaaaaaaaaay conservative. since going to college i have become a lot more liberal. when i was growing up the idea of 'liberal' was a very dirty word. anyway. you're right, many baptist churches do not want their members to: smoke, drink alcohol, or dance. while it is probably frowned upon to do some of these things it is not preached at church. i know my sister went to Wheaton College (Christian) and she had to sign something saying she would not drink alcohol, dance, or do drugs for the four years she attended college there. i think a lot of it is based on that passage about what makes a man a good candidate to be a deacon. anyway, i dance a lot. i can understand why it's frowned upon because dancing used to be for God (worshipping Him) and now dancing can be very sexually suggestive. people will be physically intimate with perfect strangers on the dance floor. not me, but i do love to dance. i enjoy alcohol every once in awhile. i think the overall understanding is that we want to live lives that glorify God. and yes that means that we treat our bodies well, but Baptists have no 'health message' or official creeds that state in order to join the church you have to abstain from those things you mentioned. the understanding is that we glorify God and live for Him. there are good reasons not to go to sexually explicit or very violent movies, so when we talk about keeping our minds pure, dwelling on whatever is lovely, it is probably commendable not to watch them, however, it is for each person to decide, not the church's decision. i don't have that much experience with Baptists other than my church. My church is asian also, and asians are *very* conservative already so it would follow that they would want to go to a conservative church. many times i think choosing a church has a lot to do with personality. i love the singing at my church, it's beautiful and reflective, personal. however, i do long for the african american services where people jump up and call out 'amen' and 'well ...' and the mexican services where they always stand up to read the Bible and their singing is always jubilant and full of clapping. at my church one of the most common questions is "how are you doing spiritually?" i think that that is wonderful. anyway, so long as the church doesn't lose sight of God it's all good by me :). hope that helped a bit, Chyna | ||
| Patti |
Thanks, Chyna, for that objective evaluation of your church. Not that it makes that much difference. There is no true church denomination; there are saints in every church group. I think it is important to find: 1. a preacher who preaches grace, and 2. a church with whose members you feel comfortable. Too many people have wasted too much time in search of the "true" church. And the odds are overwhelming that any church that claims to be THE true church, is not. Grace and peace, Patti | ||
| Loneviking |
O.K. folks, this post might get a little long so strap yourselves in tight and hang with me. Wendy has mentioned she has three rug rats and I have three as well. I'm sure others of you have kids too and since many of us are formers, but maybe still vegetarian.....have you noticed how some kids seem to be O.K. with this and others aren't? My oldest girl is 12---it isn't a hardship being vegetarian for her. She does love steak (especially Daddys' way of doing it) and she likes BBQ Chicken and tolerates hamburger but that's about it. This child was four when she was introduced to her first hamburger at a Nazarene pre-school outing and almost went hysterical when the teachers tried to get her too eat it! No way! My second child, also a girl who is now 10, is like me---see-food eat food diet. One night about a year ago I came home with one of my favorite foods--chicken liver/gizzards. I guess I'd never done that before because she didn't know what it was, but since they smelled good she started chowing down. Mom asked her if she knew what it was, she replied "No, but it tastes' good!'. Mom then told her what it was (Mom is a vegetarian) and she replied "Well, it still tastes' good!'. This child goes over and gazes with hungry eyes at the Lobsters in the tank at the store. Shes' had Lobster and as she put it--'it will taste good and I also can find out how they are put together!'. Still, she eats plenty of vegetarian foods with no fuss and likes a number of meat substitutes. Then there is the baby--a two year old boy. This guy is a hardcore, unrepentent carnivore. At four months he was fussing and carrying on at a BBQ, and wasn't happy until he was given several licks of the sauce/coating on top of the steaks. When mom gave him his first piece of fri-chick, he quickly put it off his tongue and between his teeth, peeled his lips back and looked horrified. He just plain hates meat substitutes! He also doesn't have much use for many of the vegetarian dishes although he does like his vegetables. Especially a good pot roast with lots of potatoes/carrots/peas and onions. So, what gives here? Do the rest of you have children of a similar bent? Is it then easier for some folks to be vegetarian? Is perhaps food preferences bred into you and maybe have something to do with your biochemistry? Or are my kids just weird? Enquiring minds want to know...... L.V. | ||
| Chyna |
i don't have any babes, but i do know that whenever my mother would start browning meat for lasagna (with onions) the smell would induce a great craving to eat it. :), Chyna | ||
| Patti |
When I was SDA and we would have one of our notorious potluck lunches, from time to time someone (usually a new convert) would bring in a real meat dish, such as lasagna. Although no one dared openly admit it, everyone knew that it had meat in it and it would invariably disappear totally in the course of the meal. :) | ||
| Susan |
L.V., I can't stop laughing! You're hysterical. Anyway, I think you're on to something. I have a picky-eater kid in my house. We don't have meat substitues around here, so there's not an option. It's meat or starve. But, I think it has more to do with strong-willed verses an easy going kind-of kid. You can have one that's strong-willed about eating anything they want, or just being very picky about the whole thing. Then you have some that are happy and content to eat whatever you put in front of them, with no strong preferences. Then there's the other type that is easily influenced by the Vegetarian gastapo in the family (this is not meant to offend, only kidding around!)I'm not sure where this type fits in??? I know when I was a kid I tried get hold of anything with meat, at any possible opportunity. I would sneak hotdogs at cookouts, run in and eat them in the bathroom! Luckily I had a few non-Sda family connections that could "hook me up". It's hard when you go to meat-proofed schools and both sides of your family are "hard-core". You can probably gather that I was a bit of a rebellious type. I was strong-willed and just loved the taste of all meat, especially pork and shellfish! I think you need to do a real study on this. If Gore gets into office I'm sure you could qualify for a grant!!! God bless, Susan | ||
| Chyna |
susan, you are a riot :)! :) chyna | ||
| Maryann |
Hi Y'all, Being a strict veggy as a kid, I could not imagine putting a "decaying" piece of animal in my mouth as an adult. Finally at 21, I ate some end cut prime rib with long teeth with the help of a bit of wine. I have been eating meat ever since. I love veggy food! The smells that come out of my Mom's house just set my mouth to uh waterin'! Next to the good company provided at Colleen's house is the food. Both flesh and pseudo flesh. Colleen's veggy dishes rival about any veggy cooking I've experienced. The point of this is that my kids have been raised on meat and have had more than their share of fast food and junk much to my shame. My kids, 12 and 14 don't share the same delight that I do when they get to eat at Mom's or Colleen's. Veggy food, it seems, has to be aquired or something you were raised on. What my kids miss!! Shake, shake, shake my head. Maryann | ||
| Colleentinker |
What a funny discussion! We have the same phenomenon at our house. Our 17-year old likes meat and has no problem ordering it or eating what's served. Some things he doesn't care for, but since he's been going to his current nondenominational high school, he's gotten completely comfortable eating meat whenever he's with his friends (or even when he's just going out with us! It cracks me up to watch him nonchalantly order bacon-cheeseburgers!) Our 13-year-old, on the other hand, has a powerful reaction against the idea of any meat passing his lips. When he goes to camp or to social events with his friends, he just won't eat the entrees. He did tell me the other day, however, that he ate some sauce at camp that had some meat in it and liked it. He even admitted that if he can't identify the meat, it's OK. This is completely new attitudeóhe used to ask if it had meat before he'd eat it. Richard and I also have this dichotomy. I've always eaten meat occasionally, but Richard grew up believing meat was not food. He struggles with his resisitance to it. We all assure him it's OK; he doesn't have to eat meat. But he feels like his aversion to it is a handicap. People are wired so differently! Colleen | ||
| Larimobley |
Hi Chyna, I've only started posting as opposed to lurking a few days ago, so I'm not sure I'm ready to tell my whole story, but I'll give you a quick outline :) I went from a very conservative, 4th-generation Adventist to someone who refused to attend church of any kind or even discuss religion. I frankly thought it was all hogwash and proudly considered myself an "apathist." I figured that athiests didn't believe in God, agnostics didn't know, and I frankly didn't care. Of course, I did care, but wouldn't admit it for over 10 years. Found salvation through grace about a year ago now. Long story, but I now attend a Calvary Chapel church and go to the FAF Bible study on Friday nights in Redlands. I am no longer bitter about my Adventist heritage. I'm thankful to God for it because, for reasons I might never understand, it was His will for me to go through what I have. BTW, my husband and I are the ONLY non-Adventists in our entire families. They're all glad we're going go church again, but still can't understand why it's not an Adventist church. They're praying for us...and we're praying for them! I enjoy your posts and hope you'll keep contributing to these discussions. In His grace, Lari | ||
| Doug |
Anything taken to extremes is probably unhealthful. I have a relative who absolutely won't eat meat. It goes something like this: "You know, EGW says eating meat is not good..." (He eats 1/2 an apple pie at one sitting) "You know, your body is the temple of God--eating meat defiles it..." (He consumes a whole quart of ice cream--with the apple pie) "Alcohol is the devil's brew..." (After dinner, he eats the rest of the cottage cheese loaf, the remaining salad and 2 pieces of cake..then asks his wife if she is going to finish her plate...and eats it as well) He couldn't engage in any outdoor activity if his life depended on it--can barely walk up a flight of stairs--but boy oh boy, no meat and no beer. Some how, the whole idea of balance seems to be lost in the translation some where. I am puzzled. | ||
| Breezy |
Very good point.A circumstance best avoided. Wendy | ||
| Debbie |
Hi Guys, Well, as Colleen mentioned in an earlier post, I was not raised Adventist. My first exposure to Adventism and vegetarianism came when I was 18 years old. I became friends with an Adventist girl, and I spent large amounts of time at her and her parents' house. Despite the fact that I was raised eating meat at virtually every meal (except, maybe breakfast), I never thought that vegetarian food was weird, and I don't remember having any reservations about trying it either. Everything I remember eating at my friend's house tasted good to me (and this included canned "veggie franks"), but I never felt the urge to become vegetarian during this period. I still remember some of my other friends thinking it was weird, though (and my family is still highly suspicious of the idea of eating fake meat). I also remember going to Carl's Jr. with her and she would order a Carl's Famous Star without the meat. Of course, the person waiting on her would look at her like she was from outer space or something. But it didn't bother me. Through this friend, I eventually met my husband. When my husband and I first got married, I would do the same thing I saw my mother do while growing up: cook meat for dinner every night. It was a given. It was something I just did because it was my culture growing up. I never thought twice about it until my husband mentioned to me that "You know we don't have to eat meat EVERY night for dinner." It was polite and nonaccusing, and as a result I began to remove meat from some of the dishes I served. I still didn't use fake meat, however. Nor did I feel compelled to be vegetarian or remove "unclean" meats from my diet. Of course, even though I always cooked meat, and never even thought about eating veggie food at home, I still enjoyed it when it was served at my husband's family's house. We lived 500 miles from his family (Near Soquel, California) for the first 2 1/2 years of our marriage. When we moved back to southern California to be near family again, and so that I could go back to school, I began to develop "hangups" about what I ate. I eventually got to the point (by the time I was at LLU) that I tried to become strict vegetarian. This would never last for more than a couple of weeks at the most, however, because I would crave meat. I would sometimes feel fine about eating anything I wanted to eat, but at other times I would have twinges of guilt over eating meat, especially unclean meat. I believe this was partly because I didn't have a thorough understanding of the old versus the new covenants, and by this point, I had been heavily immersed in Adventist culture for well over 10 years. Now that I've become associated with Former Adventist Fellowship and have realized that "it is not what goes into a man that makes you unclean" Guess what?? I am now a Registered Dietitian who is very health conscious, but who is set free from worrying about whether or not I am displeasing God by what I eat. And you know what else? I still like many of the veggie foods, including prosage, stripples, big franks, veggie meatballs, choplets, and all of the stuff in between. But I also a good piece of meat <preferably lean> as well. As a matter of fact, as I was finishing this post, my husband came home with BIG, JUICY In-N-Out Burger for me. Mmm, mmm, Good!!! By the way, did you know that In-N-Out is Christian owned and operated, and that they have bible verses on ALL of their cups???? (specifically John 3:16, Proverbs 3:5 and Isaiah 53) Set free and praising God for it! Debbie | ||
| Loneviking |
No, I didn't know that---but I do know that you can make some interesting alterations to their 'In-n-Out' bumper stickers! You folks in S0-Cal know what I mean................:) | ||
| Doug |
I was always currious about that altered bumber sticker--I think there's a dual meaning here: one being a desire or hankerin' for a burger (the best burger in the world BTW) and the other something quite different. I think. But then it might just be the way my mind works. | ||
| Allenette |
OK OK the above posts read like a joke waiting to happen.....anyone want to enlighten this Tennessee-bound MEAT EATER about the dern bumper snicker before I start getting creative?? Thanks in advance ;-) | ||
| Allenette |
Oh yeah, I gotta say, the ONE THING (the ONLY THING)I still miss about SDA, and I tell currents this, too: is the RECIPES !!!!! There just aint nothin like an SDA potluck! On another forum (Bill--was it YOU who gave me the cottage cheese loaf recipe way back then?? And it was way wrong and your wife had to give me the right proportions??? It turned out like a concrete brick the 1st time LOLOL) My dear sweet SDA mom can still turn out those vege-foods on demand ggg, and, until a year or so ago, Nashville had a vegetarian restaurant here that, when you went inside, you would SWEAR you were in the cafeteria tent at campmeeting! YUM YUM YUM! Kind of a cognitively dissonant experience, really...those smells can conjure up memories of being a litty bitty SDA girl, snug as a bug in a rug surrounded by like-mindeds, then---SNAP OUT OF IT!---its just FOOD ! Anyone on here know what I mean? Pictures of the Sirens of Greek (?) mythology, wooing the sailors to their deaths on the rocks, go thru my mind. (Or am I being overly dramatic? ggg probably) Sure liked the food, tho. Sometimes I go to the SDA hospital here to eat. They still do a mean lentil casserole ;-) | ||
| Steve |
Well, this may need to be wiped off the internet, so I'll try to explain about the bumper sticker. The In-n-Out bumper sticker simply said, In-n-Out Burger Many people would simply cut out the "B" and the "r" from the word "Burger" and we were all left reading . . . OK, I won't post it, you can figure it out yourself. (And if this was inappropriate, I hope this will be deleted. Perhaps someone will tell me that I've let the world know how demented we Southern Californians are!) And the good old Cottage Cheese Loaf is still one of my favorites too. Steve | ||
| Maryann |
:-)) |
