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Former Adventist Fellowship Forum » ARCHIVED DISCUSSIONS 1 » THE OBEDIENT TESTIFY NOT OF THEIR OBEDIENCE, BUT THEIR OBEDIENCE TESTIFIES OF CHRIST « Previous Next »

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Max
Posted on Wednesday, January 17, 2001 - 7:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

DEAR ADVENTIST FRIEND, IS CHRIST
CALLING YOU TO LEAVE THE SDA
CHURCH?

15 "If you love me, you will obey what I
command.
16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give
you another Counselor to be with you forever--
17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept
him, because it neither sees him nor knows
him. But you know him, for he lives with you
and will be in you.
18 I will not leave you as orphans; I will come
to you.
19 Before long, the world will not see me
anymore, but you will see me. Because I live,
you also will live.
20 On that day you will realize that I am in my
Father, and you are in me, and I am in you.
21 Whoever has my commands and obeys
them, he is the one who loves me. He who
loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too
will love him and show myself to him."

Your friend in Christ,

Max of the Cross
Max
Posted on Wednesday, January 17, 2001 - 7:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Reference for above post: NIV John 14:15-21
Max
Posted on Thursday, January 18, 2001 - 1:51 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Question: Does Christ's obedience to his
Father's will mean that we don't have to be
obedient to Christ's will?

My answer: No. We still have to obey Christ's
Commandment: "Thou shalt agape!" Not
because our obedience will "win heaven" and
"shun hell," as Ellen G. White was so fond of
saying. But rather because Christ's obedience
has won heaven and defeated hell for us
already.

As Luther put it, "We are saved by faith alone,
but not by faith that is alone." Real faith is
always accompanied by real obedience.
Cindy
Posted on Thursday, January 18, 2001 - 9:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Max, Yes! "CHRIST'S OBEDIENCE HAS won heaven and defeated hell FOR US already."

The Gospel is "a DONE deal"!!

All we can do is live in grateful RESPONSE to it!!

This Finished, and Accomplished, Work of Christ at the Cross--Christ Crucified FOR ME!--is my motivation to live a life worthy of His costly sacrifice! We can REST in this assurance!

Living IN this Grace is strenuous, but exciting!
I read somewhere that "Grace understood is Holiness desired..."

Grace always,
Cindy
Max
Posted on Friday, January 19, 2001 - 4:44 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Cindy,

I used to think that when Paul spoke of
"straining toward the mark" and racing for the
goal, that he meant salvation = heaven. Now I
know he doesn't mean that. He means: He
wanted to get to heaven to be with Jesus in a
way that he couldn't in this life.

I remember as a kid riding a horse that wasn't
too interested in going the way I wanted him to
go. But when it came time for us to turn
around and go back to the barn where hay and
oats awaited, oh, did that dude ignite the
afterburners. We got back in record time.

Lesson: The horse already had his barn and
his food. He didn't have to earn that. He just
couldn't wait to get to it!

MC
Cindy
Posted on Friday, January 19, 2001 - 7:04 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Morning Max! Yes! We've ALREADY got "our barn and food!" We can run the race joyfully! :-))

Have a great day, Max!

Grace always,
Cindy
Max
Posted on Friday, January 19, 2001 - 1:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

TRUE REMNANT EXALTS CHRIST, NOT SELF

True believers do not parade their unselfish
love, their agape. They donít tend to say,
ìNotice us, world! Watch us loving one
another! Look at us loving even our enemies!
Arenít we the remnant, though!î

Thatís not what the kingdom of heaven is
about. Itís about obedience to God. Itís about
obediently loving people -- friends, neighbors,
enemies -- beyond human limits.

Youíve sung Peter Scholteís 1966 song ìWe
Are One in The Spirit,î havenít you?

ìWe are One in the Spirit, we are One in the
Lord.
And we pray that all unity may one day be
restored.
And they'll know we are Christians by our
love....î

Lest you think -- mistakenly! -- that our love is
the Way, hear this: The miracle of being
obediently ìOne in the Spirit, One in the Lordî
comes not by our love.

It comes not by anything weíve ever done, or
are doing, or can ever do. It comes only in the
wake of the love Christ alone has already
bestowed on us. Outside of us. Alien to us. On
the cross. No, our love is not the Way. Christís
love is.

This is the ìmiracle beyond our power.î It is
the only Way that we people can possibly
unite. The only Way that we can obey God.
That we can possibly reveal the genuine
agape love that falls on us continuously from
above. Like a niagara. And to which we
respond by faith alone.

And the only genuine faith-response we can
make to this ìmiracle beyond our powerî is
obedience.

When Christ calls, the elect are impelled --
compelled -- to come to Him. These ìsteps to
Christî are not directed and powered by our
own ingenuity and strength. They're powered
and directed by the pure grace of the Holy
Spirit already within us. (ìPure graceî meaning
"unchanged grace,î Jude 4.)

This is the ìnot I, but Christ" principle. And it
is seen in the lives of all true believers. Even
the criminal on the cross. For though he was
fettered in the lower, secular dimensions of
spacetime by his coming death on the cross
next to Christ's, Christ unfettered him and set
him free to fly in the higher dimensions of
eternal spiritual reality.

While still fettered in spacetime he was able
to show his faith by the only thing he could do,
by speaking. Under the impulse of the Holy
Spirit, he rebuked his unrepentant fellow
criminal on the cross.

By faith alone he spoke. ìDonít you fear God,î
he said, ìsince you are under the same
sentence? We are punished justly, for we are
getting what our deeds deserve. But this man
[Jesus] has done nothing wrong.î

Then he said, ìJesus, remember me when
you come into your kingdom.î

Jesus answered him, ìI tell you the truth, today
you will be with me in paradiseî (Luke 23:40-
43 NIV).

For, away into these higher dimensions he
was about to go. It was as Albert E. Brumleyís
1932 song says, ìLike a bird from prison bars
has flown, I'll fly away. I'll fly away, O glory, I'll fly
away; When I die, Hallelujah, by and by, I'll fly
away.î

He flew away. With Jesus. Praise God.

How, then, did he obey? What were his good
works? As I count, they were three in number:
He (1) rebuked (or witnessed to) his fellow
criminal on his cross, (2) prayed to Jesus, and
(3) flew away with Him.

Or do you suppose Jesus yanked him away
against his will? I think he was rather glad to
have the freedom to choose to fly away with
his new Lord.

His fellow criminal had no such freedom of
choice. His soul took him in a direction he
hated to go. For only when the Son God sets
us free are we ìfree indeed.î

The nut of what Iím saying here is this: People
who, under grace, are being transformed (2
Corinthians 3:16-18) donít flaunt their
improvements, but they donít hide them either.

The difference is more than just subtle. It's all
the difference between Christ and Satan,
between heaven now and hell now, between
Bonhoeffer's "costly grace" versus "cheap
grace."

Here's why:

Kind people donít flaunt their kindness, but
their kind actions often betray them to prying
eyes and inquiring minds.

Faithful folks may be unable to show their faith
without deeds, but they are able to show their
faith by the deeds they do (James 2:18).

Hopeful souls donít trumpet forth their hope,
but someday they just might get caught
hoping by despairing souls who will then be
inspired by the Holy Spirit.

You, as a child of the light, may not advertise
your candle on TV, but neither do you hide it
under an overturned bowl. No way. You ìlet
your light shine before men, that they may see
your good deeds and praise [not you! but] your
Father[!] in heavenî (Matthew 5:16).

Peaceful people will probably not wave a
banner saying, ìLOOK AT ME! IíM A
PEACEMAKER!" but if they ìturn the other
cheek,î somebody else just might notice.

Nor will the truly humble person tell the world:

ìI donít have much,
but I have my humility,
and Iím proud of it!î

Not likely. Rather, it is his humble character
that will proclaim louder than any words his
total dependence on the alien act accom-
plished for him by Christ on the cross.

Okay, so youíre going to blow it sometimes.
Thatís inevitable. Peter did (NIV Matthew
14:23-32):

^^[Jesus] went up on a mountainside by
himself to pray. When evening came, he was
there alone, but the boat was already a
considerable distance from land, buffeted by
the waves because the wind was against it.

During the fourth watch of the night Jesus
went out to them, walking on the lake. When
the disciples saw him walking on the lake,
they were terrified. "It's a ghost," they said, and
cried out in fear.

But Jesus immediately said to them: "Take
courage! It is I. Don't be afraid."

"Lord, if it's you," Peter replied, "tell me to
come to you on the water."

"Come," he said.

Then PETER got down out of the boat,
WALKED ON THE WATER and came toward
Jesus. But when he saw the wind, he was
afraid, and beginning to sink, cried out, "Lord,
save me!"

Immediately Jesus reached out his hand and
caught him. "You of little faith," he said, "why
did you doubt?"

And when they climbed into the boat, the wind
died down. Then those who were in the boat
worshiped him, saying, "Truly you are the Son
of God."^^

Some people think thereís something wrong
with walking on water. How vain! Strutting right
in front of God and making all the disciples
still in the boat jealous!

We forget that Christ told him, ìCome.î

Hey, thereís nothing wrong with walking on
water. Not as long as your Lord has bidden
you to do exactly that. But there is something
wrong with doubting while youíre doing it. The
text says so.

It says, when the wind terrified him and he
doubted, Peter began to sink.

But hereís the real point: Notice what Peter did
as a doubting, sinking man. Thatís right, he
prayed. Prayed to the Son God out there
walking on the waves. And his prayer was,
ìLord, save me!î

And his Lord did!

Lesson for us (in a whispered clue): Have
faith.

ìFor in the gospel a righteousness from God
is revealed, a righteousness that is by faith
from first to last, just as it is written: ëThe
righteous will live by faithíî (NIV Romans 1:17
NIV).

Max of the Cross
Cindy
Posted on Saturday, January 20, 2001 - 10:51 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dear Max, I appreciate your emphasis on CHRIST'S love, not something we manufacture within ourselves!! All power does come from His Spirit...

You wrote: "It comes not by anything weíve ever done, or are doing, or can ever do. It comes only in the wake of the love Christ alone has already
bestowed on us. Outside of us. Alien to us. On
the cross. No, our love is not the Way. Christís
love is."

Max, I see you as having a passion for Christ and a desire to impress on others the great warning not to flaunt the wonderful grace of God!

If we are to first and foremost preach the Cross, the once and forever, finished act of God in reconciling us to God; then, also, in preaching this...bring out living in grateful RESPONSE to this good news!; I think we are in agreement. (a unity of the Spirit? :-))

You wrote: "it is his humble character
that will proclaim louder than any words his
total dependence on the alien act accom-
plished for him by Christ on the cross."

This is true in regards to showing ones's dependence on Christ. One may say they are dependant on Christ and their lives may proclaim a totally different dependence--a dependance on materialism, sensuality, power, or prestige...

And YET, we must continue to always emphasize the preaching of the Cross, the alien once and forever, Finished act of God in redeeming us!!

We may at times not "show", or even "feel" this dependence on Christ, but He alone is faithful to hold us in His Hands. I appreciate the way you have expressed the SECURITY we have IN CHRIST!

I think we must ever keep the Cross CENTRAL in our thoughts, not thinking we can move on to "better" things... We do not begin one way and then continue another...

We continue to rely totally on God, by the faith He has given us!, for everything...our Righteousness, Wisdom, and Strength!

We need this "foolishness" of the preaching of the Cross always!

Boldness with humility is needed (again, only supplied by the Holy Spirit!) to continue to preach the necessity and meaning of the Cross!

The Cross of Christ was, and continues to be, a ""Stumbling Block" to mans' ways of merit and human potential, or to new age speculations...

This "foolishness" and "weakness" of the Cross,as percieved by the unregenerate, is in actuality the true WISDOM and STRENGTH of God!

The real POWER is still in the Cross, Jesus alone!! Not in OUR prayers, OUR praises...but in Christ alone....

I heard Martin Luther wrote once (concerning the Cross): "HERE is all of my Theology"...

Isn't it all so good!! Blessings to you, Max, always... I hope to meet you someday!

Grace always,
Cindy
Max
Posted on Saturday, January 20, 2001 - 11:23 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

God bless you, Cindy.

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