| Author | Message | ||
| Gracehound (Gracehound) |
Occasionally I am struck by how deeply Adventism affects those still within the church. Earlier this week I read a statement made in a letter by my own brother that blew me away. He is still deeply rooted in the SDA church and his quote opens this part of the forum. I wanted to use this area to post those statements by Adventists that made you crane your head and ask yourself "Did I hear that right?" Brother Anonymous: "Frankly, I detest the doctrines of mainstream Christianity because it has kept so many people from finding Christ." | ||
| Bmorgan (Bmorgan) |
Gracehound, Welcome to the forum. I have had my share of jaw dropping. Two years had a major fallout (mentally) when the veil was finally ripped from my heart and eyes. I was horrified coming face to face with the major deception I discovered at the root of adventism. In my attempt to grapple with devastation and confusion I was experiencing, I spoke to a college friend who is now a pastor in Canada. He knew about my struggle trying to make sense of thing spiritually. However, at that time, I was careful to not say anything about the conclusion my husband and I had come to about the church. He knew we attending a non adventist church. I explained how well and smooth the church was operating and the gracefullness people demonstrated in their lives. His response almost gave me a cardiac arrest. Quote "The only thing those Sunday folks have is Jesus, Jesus, Jesus. We have the Spirit of Prophecy, the Sanctuary, Education, the health message, child guidance. Do you want me to give that up? No way!" Contd..."I don't have anything against those people. Actually, I meet with some Sunday church pastors for fellowship occasionally. But, they can't teach me anything, they have nothing on us." I froze, then sounded my exasperation innocently. I said,"I thought I was stupid, but now I know I am neither crazy nor stupid, because you are saying things that sound absurd and you are way smarter than me." I realized I probably insulted him when my husband laughingly said my answer was a good comeback. My friend never accused me of insulting him. But he sent me an email, saying how disappointed he was with me that I said tithing can be legalist. He warned me about reading nonsense on the internet. Thereafter, he completely cut off ALL contact with me. How's that for a friend of over twenty years. Not long ago a sweet old pioneer of the church said to me, "Nobody, no church, no pastor, however good they may be, no, no , no body has the truth like WE do. They are wrong, sister, you need to come back in the faith." "You fulfilling prophecy just as Mrs. White predicted would happen in the last days." I have had so many "head jerkers" my neck muscles have become too stiff to move any more  Bmorgan | ||
| Bob (Bob) |
Here's a sad, typical quote from one of my SDA academy classmates of long ago: "I have not been active in the church since I left . . . [he names his SDA college]. That is, until a couple of years ago. I finally quit smoking, but I'm still not very involved beyond going to church every few Sabbaths. But I'm working on it. I have always felt the Adventists have the right message to live by and that most other religions were just too convenient (I have no idea of your churches doctrine so I can't make a judgment about it). That is, made it too easy to follow their doctrine. . . . The Adventist doctrine, as I know it is pretty rigid. But, it is, in my opinion, the message Christ would preach if he were here on Earth today. But, then I was raised in the SDA church and schools and have only cursory knowledge of other faiths and religions. So, I always end up comparing how convenient other religions are against the Adventist. And if they seem too easy, I don't think they're the right ones for me." | ||
| Lydell (Lydell) |
The one that was the last straw for me came during a discussion in Sabbath School over how to answer the simple question: "are you saved?". I'd attempted to explain that if you didn't know how to answer,that you had, in fact, answered the question. The sabbath schoool teacher brought up the old garbage about sister white saying that we must never say that we are saved. I'd pointed out that the Bible says that we are saved, the writers of the New Testament didn't seem to have a problem saying that they were saved, and that the believer in Christ can do the same. She repeated what sister white had said and then added "and we mustn't put a question mark where God has put a period." No one else challenged her. | ||
| Gracehound (Gracehound) |
I ran into a former/non-attending Adventist and we began discussing Adventism, the church, and why both she and I hadn't attended in so long. Not a direct quote, but a good paraphrase (unlike the Clear Word Bible I'll keep the context in-tact) Sister Anonymous "I haven't been back to the church in about 10 years. I miss the fellowship of other believers, but I just can't keep all the rules right. I've tried, but I just keep messing it up. I would always run into someone at WalMart on Sabbath and know the next week by their knowing stares that they saw me shopping. I tried so hard but couldn't manage to make all my meals before sundown on Friday night. I can't even keep the Sabbath right, how am I supposed to guard the edges? You know, even though I haven't been back, I know that they are right. They really do have the truth, I just keep failing trying to keep everything straight. I wish there was another church that kept the Sabbath around here, because if there was, I would go. The last few years I just have my own private worship on Friday night, try to do something on Sabbath morning, and fail miserably from there on. I feel so guilty for not getting it right, and I'm sure I'm probably lost because I can't get it right. I just wish that I didn't 'know' the truth, and had just been born Baptist or some other religion so I wouldn't be judged on the Sabbath. I think when I start seeing the signs that the Catholics are coming and the Sunday Law gets signed I'll go back and really really try to get it right. I just hope my name hasn't already been passed and I've already been judged when I start seeing those signs or else I'm really in trouble." | ||
| Colleentinker (Colleentinker) |
This is such an interesting thread. It reminds me of two SDA people who have said some astonishing things to me. One was a member of an SDA religion faculty who phsycially flinched when I said EGW was a false prophet. This person looked up in shock and said, "I don't for a minute believe that God whispered all those things into her ear, but don't you think 'false prophet' is a little strong?" In a later conversation the same person said, "I certainly don't believe most [of Adventism]óin fact, I don't believe much of anything [meaning, in the context of our conversation, Christianity in general], but I stay because I think I can make a difference."ÖUh, pardon me? On friend of mine is a long-time church employee. This person said, "I have questions, but I figure brighter minds than mine have wrestled with these things, so I won't worry about it. I'm going to wait until I retire, and then I'll deal with my questions." Wow, these people deal with so much angst and worry and dis-ease, don't they? But then, so did IÖ Colleen | ||
| Violet (Violet) |
"Cheap Grace" is still one of my favorites that was said after the minister's wife visited a mega church of 10,000 strong christians here in Tulsa. She could not believe that they didn't think they had to keep all of the rules and still be saved. She thought these people were badly deceived. | ||
| Sabra (Sabra) |
Gracehound, Your sister-anonymous is my twin in another time! Wow, that's exactly the same reasonings I had for the 10 years out of church before God showed me the TRUTH. No one could show me anything, I mean nobody tried. I always told my half sister (who isn't SDA) I wished I was born into some other religion so I wouldn't know any better and if someone could just give me scripture that it was OK not to be SDA I would be thrilled. She never could since she doesn't study much, but God showed me Galatians and then Hebrews, maybe you should share them with your friend so she doesn't have to go through unnecessary mental torment for 10 years like I did. | ||
| Doug222 (Doug222) |
"SDA's don't have all the truth, but they are more right than any other denomination," as though the person saying it has ever studied it out. When pressed, you can never get them to pinpoint exactly where the SDA Church is not right--but they've studied it. I have heard this one from several people. Doug | ||
| Dennisrainwater (Dennisrainwater) |
I don't know if this is the thread to voice our own surprising statements, but I'll try one out. I am working on putting together a New Believers' class that will start as a Sunday School class in the fall, and my pastor and I were working on one of the lessons together a few days ago. We were discussing Adam and Eve, and their fall. The conversation turned to the theme of God stepping in to rescue us, and I mentioned how nicely this was pictured in the Lamb Skins that the Lord used to replace their Fig Leaf garments. I went on to suggest that this portrayed the the Lamb of God covering our sins... About this time, he began to look at me as though I had geraniums growing out of my head. I immediately realised that I had spouted yet another White-ism... It's a nice analogy, but the Bible doesn't say "lamb skins", it says "garments of skin". This may well have been the first example of leather pants... ;-) Who of us doesn't recall the beautifully painted picture by Harry Anderson (I think) of Adam and Eve dressed in their woolly sheep skin garb? Gosh these things settle deep within us, don't they? Violet, I am always amazed by the term "Cheap Grace"! Grace is so expensive that it cost the Life of Jesus Christ -- and it is so valuable that it dares to cover ALL (NOT PART) OF OUR SINS -- FOREVER!!!! What do they mean, "cheap grace"??? I think we who knowingly live free live in much more expensive grace than SDAs do, because we recognize that we don't have to keep making supplemental payments here and there... So grateful for costly Grace, Den<>< | ||
| Doug222 (Doug222) |
Amen Dennis and Violet. I was flipping through the channels on the 4th of July and I saw Pat Robertson interviewing a retired Army Colonel who had been a prisoner of war. Now mind you I don't make it a habit of listening to Pat Robertson, but this show caught my eye. At the end of describing his ordeal, the Colonel mentioned the fact that "freedom is never free. It is purchased at the price of the countless young men who have bled and died so that we might be enjoy freedom." I couldn't help but make the connection to the ultimate sacrifice that was paid by Jesus and the freedom we enjoy. Ironically, I never heard much mention of freedom (other than possible freedom from gong to hell and the freedom to obey the law) mentioned while I was in Adventism. I too am immensely grateful the the greates gift Doug | ||
| Carol_2 (Carol_2) |
yeah, i can relate to all that's been mentioned - i also frequently hear about "cheap grace", sda's being more right than any other denomination, as well as anyone who has left sda-ism being accused of just wanting things "easy." i think my favorite "absurdity" was when the wife of an elder was talking with me. at the time i worked in the church office of a large sda church. my husband is a baptist boy, but had been attending my church with me most of the time for a few years at that point. she asked me if my husband had yet been convicted of the sabbath. i indicated no he had not. she then asked if he had begun to study eggwhite yet (sorry for the sarcasm) and i again said no he had not. she then reassured me that as soon as he began to study mrs. white it would all "come together" and fit so beautifully for him (my hubbie.) even at that time, being an active and enthusiastic sda, i thought that was the craziest thing to say. thanks dennis for your comments about the true cost of grace, amen! love and prayers to all, carol | ||
| Sherry2 (Sherry2) |
A Warning: At my local Meijer, in the advertising fliers I have yet become aware of another SDA market for getting Bible Studies. There are pamphlets of a NY city type picture, a dove, and the words "Out of the Tragedy Rises Hope"...I had a bad feeling when I saw it so I grabbed one and internet researched the name of the company producing them...first they are called Bible Reading Guides with no mention of a church. They are produced by Outposts Centers Inc. which is linked to Lightbearers Ministries, Ty Gibson...which is an SDA...it is obvious the Bible study guides are to bear "more fruit" for SDAism...Please be on the lookout and pitch them when you see them. Thought you'd want to know... | ||
| Jerry (Jerry) |
Yes, Sherry, I have not seen that particular exploitation of Sept 11, but I have seen several others. That includes the speech by Jan Paulsen which is a topic on this forum. Sad, Isn't it? Did any of you get wind of the alleged EGW 9/11 prediction quotes that swirled around soon after? That is my example of "Did I hear that right?" Of course, they were incredibly vague. But when did that ever stop the church. The General Conference, wisely, backed off of that subject. I was SOOO annoyed when I heard that. | ||
| Violet (Violet) |
Jerry, tell me more about this predition, I like to know what I am going to face at the next family get together. | ||
| Jerry (Jerry) |
Go to www.truthorfables.com There is an article titled "World Trade Center Attack" which gives an outline of the quotes. It also gives the official denial. Also, link to http://www.ellenwhite.org/newyork.htm I heard these in person first before seeing the articles mentioned. | ||
| Doug222 (Doug222) |
I was visiting another forum today and a former Adventist asked the question, "what is the Gospel?" Notice the SDA response: "It is the "Plan of Salvation" - as Paul said "Everything pertaining to life and Godliness" with the work of Christ - God the Son at its core. When Christ went around preaching "The Gospel of the Kingdom" and gave that same mission to his disciples and then at the end - commissioned them to Go and teach what HE taught them - it was "an unfolding understanding" about "the Good News". By the time Paul is rehearsing the Gospel in 1Cor 15 it NOW includes HIS OWN conversion. (An interesting detail.) What is amazing is the way the writer to the Hebrews defends the NT church by claiming that "WE have had the Gospel preached to US just as THEY also" - refering to the Hebrews in the desert for 40 years as the "they"." Is this typical Adventist double speak or what? By reading his explanation, I still would have no idea what the Gospel is--now that is absurd! | ||
| Jerry (Jerry) |
No kidding!!! ("they" referred to other disciples) What a typical twist! Nothing there about the Exodus. | ||
| Doug222 (Doug222) |
Jerry, as the passage below indicates, actually, the writer of Hebrews was referring to the Children of Israel, but he was doing it to demonstrate the everlasting nature of the Gospel message, not to associate Old Covenant practices with the New Testament church as the writer of this post suggests: Hebrews 3 16Who were they who heard and rebelled? Were they not all those Moses led out of Egypt? 17And with whom was he angry for forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose bodies fell in the desert? 18And to whom did God swear that they would never enter his rest if not to those who disobeyed? 19So we see that they were not able to enter, because of their unbelief. Hebrews 4 1Therefore, since the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us be careful that none of you be found to have fallen short of it. 2For we also have had the gospel preached to us, just as they did; but the message they heard was of no value to them, because those who heard did not combine it with faith. The Children of Israel were part of a larger object lesson that God was teaching them about entering into his completed work. This is the Gospel that the writer of Hebrews said was preached to the Children of Israel, just like it was being preached to the New Testament church. The problem is that the Children of Israel refused to enter into his rest, and the writer of Herews admonishes the New Testament church not to follow suit--which is just what Adventism has done. Doug | ||
| Lori (Lori) |
In an effort to explain, to a SDA friend, the importance of keeping a text "in context" I told her to always read three chapters around any verse she was studying. (The chapter containing the verse and the chapters before and after). This would help to establish the context in which it was written. After a moment of silence she responded "Oh, I'd like to read those!! Which three chapters are they?" |
