| Author | Message | ||
| Melissa (Melissa) |
Forgive me if there is a topic on this already. I scanned through and didn't see anything at a quick glance, but I have been wondering.... I was reading the proclamation article on "death: oblivion or graduation" and it reminded me of a question that B has never really answered. How do SDAs perceive the Holy Spirit? I ask because B does not believe a spirit or soul can exist without a living body ... and he seems to presume God the father has a physical body of some sort...though he has been unable to identify a text for this belief. I think it comes from his assumption that the soul or spirit cannot exist without a body. Anyway, what do they do with the Holy Spirit? Must he have a physical body too or how can he be spirit (that is not merely a breath) and alive? I've been raised on the "graduation" side of the argument so this whole things makes little sense to me, but I have wondered how they processed the Holy Spirit at all given B's other explanations. | ||
| Sabra (Sabra) |
Well the Bible says clearly that the Lord is Spirit and we must worship Him in Spirit and in truth. It also says flesh and blood can not enter heaven..so, how could God not be Spirit? I don't know what they do with it, when SDA, I just thought the Holy Spirit was my conscience. www.sdaoutreach.org has a good article on death and lots of scripture with it and shows scripture for why the breath and the spirit are not the same thing. If you can't find it, I'll look it up for you, it's really good. | ||
| Chris (Chris) |
Melissa, I am unaware of any official SDA doctrine that denies that the Holy Spirit is spirit or that would assign a physical body to the Father. Having said that, I can tell you that I personally was born and raised in Adventism and spent 18 years in the SDA school system yet emerged with only the murkiest idea of what was meant by the Trinity. I can remember my parents telling me it was kind of like a family, but that they were unified in purpose. I sort of had the vague idea that there were kind of like 3 gods but we could consider them to be more or less like one god because they agreed on everything. I also must admit that I always pictured the Father in a physical way with white robes and a white beard. Once again, I don't think this is necessarily an Adventist teaching, but on the other hand in my experience there isn't much focus on historical Christian doctrines like the nature of God. Most of the energy and time for teaching goes into SDA distintives. So B's thoughts on this might not be due so much to SDA teaching as to the lack thereof. Chris | ||
| Imunity (Imunity) |
I can't say for sure but I believe the SDA doctrine on the Trinity is that they are 3 separate persons who are united in purpose, character and nature. Then I believe that all three deities are spiritual beings, Jesus being unique in this matter as the one who (I forget the proper term) became man for His ministry on earth. I am pretty sure they believe Jesus will remain a God-Man (100% God and 100% Man) eternally. But as for the Holy Spirit and God Himself I think they say they are spiritual deities. It is one of those things that could be talked around in circles and nobody will actually know for sure until all is revealed (imho) Imunity | ||
| Colleentinker (Colleentinker) |
I think you're right, Imunity, re: the Adventist position on the nature of the Trinity. The problem arises in that Adventists don't believe humans have spirits that are something besides breath. That disbelief leads to huge problems including the nature of sin (Adventist see it more as a genetic inheritance than a literal spiritual deadness--even if they say humans are spiritually dead before accepting Christ, they really can't explain what that means), the nature of the new birth (our spirits coming to life by being connected to God for eternity through the indwelling Holy Spirit and our being given the mind of Christ [1 Cor. 2:16]), and the nature of Christ (did he or did he not inherit Mary's sin? if sin is human nature and genetics, then what sets Jesus apart from us? If sin is a dead soul, then Jesus was born sinless; he was conceived by the Holy Spirit and was born connected to God. His spirit was alive from conception, unlike the rest of humanity). Colleen | ||
| Imunity (Imunity) |
Colleen, I now have to review all of what the Adventists taught and this is one of them. I kind of let some of the "minor" things pass without either accepting or rejecting. Surely minor errors can lead to major ones so all of them will need to be examined. This one about us being a soul rather than having a soul does sound like it must be wrong based on some of the things you said. I will have to remember that one when I write my letter to the church explaining why I can no longer attend the church. | ||
| Sabra (Sabra) |
So true Colleen, Spirit and breath not the same thing: "Thus says the Lord, who created the heavens and stretched them out, who spread out the earth and its offspring, who gives BREATH to the people on it, and SPIRIT to those who walk in it." Isaiah 42:5 That should cause a problem with the Ecclesiastes verse that the spirit returns to the Lord. | ||
| Susan_2 (Susan_2) |
I am an only child and my mother says the Trinity islike our family. God theFatheristheheadof the Triune family as was my dad. Then my mom is akin to Jesus being second in charge. Then come lowly me as the Holy Spirit lagging behind with not much say about anything regarding family issues. That's howmy SDA mother understands theTrinity- as three seperate entities all with one purpose. | ||
| Chris (Chris) |
Susan, this was how I was taught growing up SDA as well......exact same analogy. "The Tinity is like a family of three, but we can say that they're practicly one because they think alike and are united in purpose." In retrospect it sounds like tritheistic heresy to me. Chris |
