| Author | Message | ||
| Shellep |
Hello all, I havent been here in a while. I have come again because I am in serious need to vent my anger. Today my family and I received a tape from present truth ministries, and i poped it in and thought I'd put some closer on some things. As soon as I heard the Pure devine uncut garbage that came out of that pastors mouth I swear I felt my blood boil. Then to top it all off every time I think about the mess that the adventist church teaches I can't help but to get angry. My family and I have only been out of the SDA church 6 months and I thought we'd be over it by now but were not. can anyone please share their experiences with me and the anger they felt. Thanks & God bless Rushelle | ||
| Valm |
Dear Shelle, Anger is an emotion that is experienced in the grieving process. Leaving something like Adventism brings on a grief process. Your anger might come from the uprooted feelings you have of leaving a familiar life behind as well as the time you spent there not living the life you could have. I would suggest that you read a bit on the grieving process and you will see the striking familiarities. I go in and out of anger still. I still have grief work to do. Each time I go into the anger phase it is less. My anger now is that I miss the communication on spritual matters that I might have had if it were not for this doctrine. Due to this doctrine, my parents do not even reguard my prayers as heard by God! Work through your anger Dear Shelle. Do not bury it. Seek the help of a good counselor on grief. The working through these matters will enable you to be a stronger and happier person. God Bless You Shelle. Valerie PS I started a thread about two months ago on grieving and adventism. You might want to read those posts. | ||
| Chyna |
dear rushelle, I am 6 months away from my break up with my SDA boyfriend. at several odd moments I feel complete rage at his deception, and then other times when I am reading about false doctrines and just realizing how mired in false doctrine many adventists are: especially living under fear instead of grace. that anger fueled me to write a complete webpage refuting adventist doctrines and stimulated me to try to publicize it to Adventists. like many former's and others involved with Adventists, we came here to help foster truth about Salvation, about God's love. although i have to admit I feel anger and helplessness often when encountered with how corrupted this world is -- from bombings, to the middle east tensions, to the rapes in south Africa, to the prostition of Thailand. it just reminds me that this is not how it was meant to be. in thinking about my broken heart, I realized that God never intended us to be hurt, or to experience sorrow, or pain, or to have weary broken hearts either. we belonged to Him, and the Garden, yet we fell and this imperfect world is where we live where countless people are walking wounded. i tell you why I got so angry. I told him the first weeks we got together, that I would a. never become adventist b. never raise my children adventist yet he didn't tell me the truth, that that was what he was hoping the entire time. he attended church with me on Sundays, and took MCAT diagnostic tests with me on Saturdays. never indicating that attending church on Sunday was a problem. he made me think that we could get married, in fact he talked often of how similar our beliefs were. while the whole time he was trying to convert me. he even made me believe we were going to live in the same apartment building this year, so we could be close. then, after a year, he broke up with me on the phone when I was coming up to visit him the next week. he would have broken up with me over the internet if I hadn't insisted we talk on the phone. also, he found a nice ADVENTIST girl to be with even before he broke up with me. He broke up with me on Tuesday, in the same week, that Saturday he told me he had already talked to her about having her move down to California to be with him. my sister pointed out that he didn't even tell me the truth about himself until he had someone else lined up. I had to plead with him to even spend time with me to talk about the break up in person. and even then, the truth about his religion did not even come out then (that he had broken up with me because I didn't convert to Adventism). it wasn't until a month later did I realize the grotesquely false doctrines in Adventism andn realized that it was a cult. He had called me his best friend. yet once I started questioning him about adventism, he forbade me to contact him ever again. no one from his family will talk to me. he compared me to a Non-Christian. that's why i get angry. even six months later. Chyna | ||
| Colleentinker |
Chyna, I am so sorry this happened to you. Reading your synopsis of your break-up makes me sad. I know you talked about it with us as it was happening, but somehow this sketch of the causes and events is just so poignant. Praise God that he set you free--even before you knew you needed to be freed! I'm sorry for your heartache. Colleen | ||
| Billthompson |
Chyna, I have enjoyed reading your posts so much over the past 6 months. As Colleen said, however, the post above really touched me deeply. It also brought back some painfully sweet memories of my own. As a young SDA male I dated a non-SDA girl. I was smitten with her. She had so many qualities I was attracted to. She was a true Christian, secure in her own salvation and on fire for the Lord. Like you, she knew little about SDA teachings. She was the first non-SDA I had ever dated. I had gone to only SDA schools up until that point. I had no desire to date a non-SDA prior to meeting her. She had so many overwhelmingly attractive qualities that I broke my own rules about not dating outside "the church". It occurs to me, this may have been the case with your ex-boyfriend, also. He may have been so attracted to your many wonderful qualities, that he was willing to overlook the religious differences for awhile. As you get further away from the situation you may be able to see what a complement this is to you. Right now, I sense, you still feel the sting of "rejection" but may have overlooked how many wonderful qualities you must obviously have for him to have been drawn to you as an "outsider". The non-SDA girl I dated made a profound impression on me! She had something I didn't. She had assurance of her own salvation, something I had been taught to shun. Deep within my soul I desparately wanted what she had but would not allow myself to admit it at the time. Instead, I tried to "convert" her to SDAism. From her perspective I was looking down on her as a "nominal, Sunday Christian lacking the fulness of truth SDAs have". I remember SDA relatives and other SDAs I'd introduce her to saying what a wonderful SDA she was going to make once she had all the "truth". I remember agreeing with them and trying that much harder to "convert" her. We were all very impressed with her and could not help but love her, even with thick SDA blinders on. Initially, I followed the pattern your ex did. I'd go to church with her, say how similar our beliefs were, all the while thinking about what they were missing, sabbath, annihilation, "state of the dead (soul sleep)", etc. As we began to discuss doctrinal differences and I tried to share my beliefs, it dawned on her that I did not understand the basics of the Gospel message, salvation by grace and not works. She gasped, put her hands over her mouth and with tears in her eyes (tears I will never forget for the rest of my life), she blurted out, "oh my, you believe in salvation by works don't you". She wept and wept for me that evening. This made me so angry. She was a Baptist and I remember thinking, these Baptists and their faulty, nominal, non-Biblical doctrines are going to interfer with a beautiful relationship with so much potential. I became defensive and stood up for SDA teachings as never before in my life. I had never really had to defend my beliefs before that, since I had been so isolated within SDA walls. As I have advocated here many times, she stuck to the basics of the Gospel from that point on. Whenever we discussed doctrine, she refused to debate the sabbath or any doctrine other than salvation by grace and not works. She was so gentle, yet firm in her convictions. The questions she asked me over and over, all very similar to the 3 questions I have suggested on this forum in the past, those questions haunted me day and night. I knew I was week in this area. This made me outwardly angry, but inwardly hungry for what she had, assurance of salvation and peace with God. From the day she learned I did not understand the Gospel, she changed our relationship. No more physical contact (kissing, hugging) only hand holding like a friend might hold your hand. I knew I was losing her. I could feel her pulling away emotionally while desiring very strongly to be my friend and see me come to Christ alone and be saved. She was very much taken with me previously, but now I could feel her pulling back. I did not want to lose her. One evening in a restraunt, I proposed marriage to her. She cried, saying a few weeks before (before she knew I was unsaved) she dreamed of this day and longed for it but could not accept at this point and made it clear we could only be friends from that point forward, until I was "saved". This hurt me deeply. It made me angry and resentful. How dare she, a Baptist, look down on me, a member of the "remnant" church! I could not escape those questions she asked, however. A couple of years later I was saved and had a firm Biblical assurance of that fact, left the SDA church. I knew that she had since married someone else, but I felt compelled to write her a letter thanking her for forcing me to come face to face with the Gospel and be saved. I feel the Lord used her in my life in a very powerful way and I will always have a great deal of admiration and respect for this fine Christian young lady. That has been about 20+ years ago now, but my heart grows warm (in a very appropriate way) when I think of her and the way the Lord used her to reach me. It seems to me the Lord may have used you in a similar way in this young man's life. I have no idea how your ex will ultimately respond to the Gospel, but perhaps now you see why I was so adamant at suggesting you not debate the sabbath and other non-salvation doctrines with him but rather force him to confront the Gospel head on. God Bless You Chyna, you are very special! Bill Thompson | ||
| Valm |
Bill, It sounds like those three questions are worth repeating. What were they? Valerie | ||
| Chyna |
they are: 1. do you believe that Jesus died for all your sins, past, present, and future? 2. in what or whom are you trusting in for your Salvation? 3. do you have assurance of your salvation? thank you Bill so much for sharing your story with me. yes, I know it's a journey Andy has to make alone finding Salvation and finding a way out of Adventism. I had thought I had fallen in love with a spiritually mature Christian who was going to share my heart's desire: to become a missionary doctor. I know how your former sweetheart felt when she gasped and wept. that moment of revelation struck me when he turned to me and asked me if there was a National Sunday Law, if I would convert to Adventism. then, that's the exact moment I knew he was in so deep that only God could pierce his spiritual blindness. I still grieve the loss of him. it was so shattering to find out that the person I fell in love with was not him, or not completely him. thank you for pointing out that he must have been strongly drawn to me to date a nonSDA in the first place, I know this in my head, but my heart is still aching for the loss of my dream of finding the one I wanted to share the rest of my life with. Chyna | ||
| Cindy |
Billthompson, Hi! :-)) Thank-you for sharing your experience! It was so interesting in light of the other side of the equation... Hearing Chyna's experience has been enlightening for me... (Hi Chyna! :-)) And now your perspectives as the male SDA person dating a "non-Adventist". I know just what you mean when you said your relatives would say 'she will make a wonderful SDA" once she had all the "truth". How many times I've hear that line!! :-)) Grace always, Cindy | ||
| Valm |
Chyna, Thanks for the three questions, those would be conversation stoppers to an Adventist I am afraid. Chyna you keep on going. I know your heart aches. I think of you often and when I do I send a prayer to God in your behalf. He has something so special for you. Valerie | ||
| Dan_2 |
Rushell, I'm jumping into this a little late. After leaving Adventism (and SDA ministry) over 6 years ago, the anger and frustration has, for the most part left me. I struggle with it at times, not that I'm angry with any one person, but with a denomination that continues to impact my relationships with people I once and still care for. However, I've lost all my close SDA friends except for one couple. I'm talking about people I was very close to and had shared life and ministry together. And I never changed, never challenged Adventism, but in their mind "things became different." One couple who were my youth leaders (I'm 47 yrs. old)and like second parents totally cut me off. What I'm trying to say to you is that many of us have felt your pain. And yet, for your own well-being, it's so important to continue to ask God to give you the needed grace to move on. The anger will turn to hurt. Yet, I wouldn't trade where I am now for any of the relationships and affirmation I received in the SDA denomination and ministry! Stay strong and stay in touch with the people here who care about you. Dan | ||
| Violet |
I am having feeling of guilt about "coming out" of Adventism. I almost feel like I am betraying my friends and now I do not want to have any contact with them because it hurts that they are so wrapped up in defending their beliefs that I cannot even have a conversation with them without feeling I am being watched and tested. Has anyone else had these feelings, and how long does it take to go away, or do I just have to stop contact with these people, kind of like an alcoholic can no longer run with his drinking buddies? | ||
| Shereen |
Violet, I think alot of us have those feelings. I, for one, have them alot. I miss my friends and the fellowship I enjoyed. I guess, as time passes, I look at my old life with rose coloured glasses. I am remembering the wonderful feelings of belonging and the bright spring days when going to church was a wonderful thing. I could never go back now that I know so much more about EGW but I do feel guilt, shame and remorse sometimes (alot of times). My two best friends have been leaving messages for me but I haven't been able to return their calls. I know that they are inviting me to meetings to "help me" and I know they really mean well. If it wasn't for EGW, I would love to have a close fellowship of believers, in the flesh, again. It seems there is a big empty hole inside me and that is a lonely feeling. Violet, I have no answers for you because I have no answers for myself. When I watch the news, I get frightened about not being ready and feeling like maybe I should be back in church. The one thing that always stops me is EGW. I am sorry that I am of no help. I just wanted you to know that there are others out here that feel the same way. Shereen | ||
| Valm |
Dear Violet and Shereen, Do not fear for your salvation!! When fear overtakes me, I remember that God has set his seal of ownership upon me. I am his now and forever!!! 2 Cor 1:22 He annointed us, set his seal of ownership on us and put his spirit in our hearts as a deposit, GUARNATEEING what is to come. And also Ephesians 1:13 And you were also included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the Gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promise Holy Spirit. I also remember that perfect love casts out fear That is in 1 John somewhere. With regards to relationships. It is a painful grievous process to loose so many friends. And they do mean well when they wish to "help you". What was your common bond with these friends? If it was just the Adventist message, the purpose of the relationship may have ceased. I do not want to diminish the grief. I suggest to give the grief honor that you may be able to move past it and seek new friendships that will enrich your lives. Best wishes, Valerie | ||
| Shereen |
This is long but very much worth the read, especially for FAFers, I feel. THE AWAKENING A time comes in your life when you finally get it... when, in the midst of all your fears and insanity, you stop dead in your tracks and somewhere the voice inside your head cries out - ENOUGH! Enough fighting and crying or struggling to hold on. And, like a child quieting down after a blind tantrum, your sobs begin to subside; you shudder once or twice, you blink back your tears and begin to look at the world through new eyes. This is your awakening. You realize it's time to stop hoping and waiting for something to change... or for happiness, safety and security to come galloping over the next horizon. You come to terms with the fact that neither of you is Prince Charming or Cinderella and that in the real world there aren't always fairy tale endings (or beginnings for that matter) and that any guarantee of "happily ever after" must begin with you.and in the process a sense of serenity is born of acceptance. You awaken to the fact that you are not perfect and that not everyone will always love, appreciate or approve of who or what you are and that's OK. They are entitled to their own views and opinions. You stop complaining and blaming other people for the things they did to you (or didn't do for you) and you learn that the only thing you can really count on is the unexpected. You learn that people don't always say what they mean or mean what they say and that not everyone will always be there for you and that it's not always about you. You stop judging and pointing fingers and you begin to accept people as they are and to overlook their shortcomings and human frailties....and in the process a sense of peace and contentment is born of forgiveness. You realize that much of the way you view yourself, and the world around you, is as a result of all the messages and opinions that have been ingrained into your psyche. And you begin to sift through all the junk you've been fed about how you should behave, how you should look, how much you should weigh, what you should wear, what you should do for a living, how much money you should make, what you should drive, how and where you should live, who you should marry, the importance of having and raising children, and what you owe your parents, family, and friends. You learn to open up to new worlds and different points of view. And you begin reassessing and redefining who you are and what you really stand for. You learn the difference between wanting and needing and you begin to discard the doctrines and values you've outgrown, or should never have bought into to begin with and in the process you learn to go with your instincts. You learn that it is truly in giving that we receive. And that there is power and glory in creating and contributing and you stop maneuvering through life merely as a "consumer" looking for your next fix. You learn that principles such as honesty and integrity are not the outdated ideals of a bygone era but the mortar that holds together the foundation upon which you must build a life. You learn that you don't know everything, it's not your job to save the world and that you can't teach a pig to sing. You learn to distinguish between guilt and responsibility. You learn that the only cross to bear is the one you choose to carry and that martyrs get burned at the stake. You learn to look at relationships as they really are and not as you would have them be. You stop trying to control people, situations and outcomes. And you learn that alone does not mean lonely. You learn that, for the most part, you get in life what you believe you deserve... and that much of life truly is a self-fulfilling prophecy. You learn that anything worth achieving is worth working for and that wishing for something to happen is different from working toward making it happen. More importantly, you learn that in order to achieve success you need direction, discipline and perseverance. You also learn that no one can do it all alone...and that it's OK to risk asking for help. You learn the only thing you must truly fear is the greatest robber baron of all: FEAR itself. You learn to step right into and through your fears Because you know that whatever happens you can handle it and to give in to fear is to give in to ego. And you learn to live your life and not to squander it living under a cloud of impending doom. You learn that life isn't always fair, you don't always get what you think you deserve and that sometimes-bad things happen to unsuspecting, good people. On these occasions you learn not to personalize things. You learn that God isn't punishing you or failing to answer your prayers. It's just life happening. And you learn to deal with evil in its most primal state-the ego. You learn that negative feelings such as anger, envy and Resentment must be understood and redirected or they will suffocate the life out of you and poison the universe that surrounds you. You learn to admit when you are wrong and to build bridges instead of walls. You learn to be thankful and to take comfort in many of the simple things we take for granted, things that millions of people upon the earth can only dream about: a full refrigerator, clean running water, a soft warm bed, a long hot shower. Slowly, you begin to take responsibility for yourself by yourself and you make yourself a promise to never betray yourself and to never, ever settle for less than your heart's True desire. And you hang a wind chime outside your window so you can listen to the wind. And you make it a point to keep smiling, to keep trusting, and to stay open to every wonderful possibility. Finally, with humility in your heart and God by your side you take a stand, you take a deep breath, and you begin to live the life you're meant to live as best you can. ~~Author Unknown~~ | ||
| Violet |
Something occured to me the other day. I put a paraphrase from a little book in the ABC about problem texts in the Bible. It was about buying strong drink or anything else you desired with your tithe money. The SDA response was that a true Christian would not desire strong drink. That made me laugh, but it also made me think, so many Adventist think without the "law" we have a liscene to sin. But the truth is you just do not desire to do those things (break the 10 commandments ect) when you are filled with the Holy Spirit. Its kinda funny how they answered their own delima | ||
| Denisegilmore |
Dear Violet, This quote from your post: >>The SDA response was that a true Christian would not desire strong drink.<< Who do the SDAs think God was speaking to when He said that? They were His people. God is Sovereign. His Words Speak Truth. Fact of the matter is, that many Christians try to interpret what God meant by that or they will try to say that this doesn't apply to Christians anymore. I happen to disagree with today's idea or concept of God in most Churches. God told them to buy whatever they desired with their tithes and that included strong drink. I'll take God's Word over peoples idea of what God should be. We are told in the epistles to not be drunkards, amongst many other things. But we are not told to never ever EVER have a strong drink. We may not like this idea but nonetheless, it is plainly written in Scripture. If I'm wrong then I should hope that one of my sisters or brothers out there would please do right by correcting my understanding of this topic. I do not want to say things that go against God's Word, so if correction is in order, please correct this sister of yours. Here is the Scripture I'm speaking of as to fermented drink: Deuteronomy 14:24-26 "But if that place is too distant and you have been blessed by the Lord your God and cannot carry your tithe (because the place where the Lord will choose to put his Name is so far away), Then exchange your tithe for silver, and take the silver with you and go to the place the Lord your God will choose. Use the silver to buy whatever you like: cattle, sheep, wine or other fermented drink, or anything you wish. Then you and your household shall eat there in the presence of the Lord your God and rejoice." Then in 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 "Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be decieved: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders Nor thieves nor the greedy nor DRUNKARDS nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the Kingdom of God. Verse 11 "But that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the the Spirit of our God." NIV There are many other Scriptures regarding the use of fermented drink i.e. wine. Seems to me, that it is not forbidden and that "real Christians" do have wine from time to time. Just don't be drunkards like I was. Believe me, it isn't worth it at all. God Bless all, DtB | ||
| Denisegilmore |
Amen to Valerie's post! Violet and Shereen, God tells us to not be afraid. He encourages us to not fear for He is with us always and forever. Never forget that, NO MATTER what feelings you have and will have as you journey into the life of Grace. Unmerited favor. God's GIFT to those who BELIEVE. I can relate to both of you because I too, have had those feelings and I too have had my doubts and I question God from time to time. But now, when this fear comes in or guilt comes in, I open my Bible, God's Word to us and get a whole lot of comfort through His Words. He who began a good work in you is Faithful and able to finish it as well. He is the Author and Finisher of your Faith. He is the Alpha and the Omega. These are Scripture paraphrased as I can't remember right off hand where they are in the New Testament. But it is in there and it is a Promise. And remember, that satan and his demons will try very hard to discourage you too. Do not listen to him! Jesus Christ has won the Victory for us! Look to Jesus Christ, your SAVIOR, your COMFORTER, your REFUGE, your ALL in ALL. Shereen, I really enjoyed reading the "Awakening." Thank you! :) God Bless all of us, DtB, your sojourning sister with you in Christ Jesus | ||
| Sherry2 |
Thank you Shereen for your post. I enjoyed it immensely! Thank you! | ||
| Sherry2 |
I might add that it is a tough journey, and not everything is rosey upon leaving, but you know in your heart that it was right. We've been studying the life of David at church for the last few months, and the striking thing for me is to realize that God had David annointed king when he was a teen but he did not receive the throne till he was 30. And all that while he was fleeing Saul, living in caves, and manning an army made up of debtors and discontented. How many times he must've questioned God - "God, are you sure it was me to be annointed king?" or "Lord, what have I done against You that You allow Saul to pursue me like this?", or even a desire to kill Saul himself and end the misery. Yet he clung to God's promises and stregth, sometimes not doing the "right thing" but always coming back to His source of strenght. That's what leaving Adventism was for me...knowing that God had definitely given me unmistakable peace and the Word of God to confirm that I could no longer belong in that denomination, and yet through struggling with a spouse who remains SDA, wanting to quit the struggle, wondering if I was right to leave, questioning God, even frankly angry at Him. But yet, but yet, there is an abiding knowledge and peace that cannot deny that this was the right thing to do - taking a stand for Christ, and the fulness of the Gospel I missed for so many years. Psalms 42 is a good one to meditate on when faith struggles with doubt. At least I find it so...it's an honest psalm. I like that. Blessings! | ||
| Violet |
The more I talk to my friends in the Adventist orginzation the more I realize that I must pull away from them. There is just no way, at this point anyway, that I can be comfortable around them. I feel judged and conviced of being a bad Christian and I do not desire that kind of condemnation. I have to admit that I probably would of been right there with them 2 years ago. Thank you guys so much for being here. I cannot tell you how much it means to me. Your Sis is Christ Vi |
