| Author | Message | ||
| Krista Registered user Username: Krista Post Number: 26 Registered: 8-2004 |
And where does one start to unravel all the ideas and beliefs that came from egw? And how does one prove that egw is at the root of the sda doctrines? I've never seen such a complicated church in my life! Thx for your help!  | ||
| Pheeki Registered user Username: Pheeki Post Number: 396 Registered: 1-2003 |
Urraveling takes years. I still carry SDA/EGW baggage. It still continues to affect our lives on a daily basis. Just last night, a very pious SDA lady and her grandson were eating pizza when my daughter came to pick up her to go order, the SDA boy (former friend of hers) wouldn't really speak to her. Later he must have felt bad because he called her and said, "I'm sorry I didn't talk to you but I was with my grandmother..." and he stopped. She said, "What?" and he said, "My grandmother thought you looked like a hooker." Ok. My daughter wears make-up and I have let her get her ears pierced now but I can assure you she hasn't even been on a car date...this lady judged and hurt her based on Ellen's standards. She is a 100% by the book Ellen worshiper. I tell you it makes me furious how the tentacles of SDAism are still coiling around my family as hard as I am trying to free them! | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 781 Registered: 12-2003 |
I so completely related to both your frustrations above, Krista and Pheeki!! Krista, the only way to unravel the embedded SDA beliefs is by consistent, serious Bible study. I've found over and over that general ideas I held about reality, God, humanity, etc. changed as I studied the Bible. It happens gradually, but as each new understanding dawns in one's mind and heart, it sheds light on other beliefs still partially shrouded in darkness. Praise God it does not take as long to undo the damage as it took to become throughly brainwashed! But as I mentioned on another thread, it usually takes at least two years and sometimes longer to debrief from Adventism. I truly believe that consistent Bible study is the only way to accomplish the debriefing, and it's also the only thing that can facilitate the process so it doesn't take many years. In addition to unlearning Adventism, I've found that Bible study is the one sure way to know that EGW is behind certain beliefs. As I read and compare texts, certain insights and understandings began to grow on me, and I realize as that understanding dawns that my previous views had to come from Ellen because they didn't come from the Bible. I'm not sure you have to "prove" that EGW is at the root of sda doctrines, Krista--but anyone who has read her more than casually recognizes her influence as they begin to learn truth from the Bible. The two stand in stark contrast to each other. I pray for all of us, that we will grow in knowledge and truth and wisdom, and that we will have the spirit of wisdom and revelation so we will know God better. (see Ephesians 1:17) Colleen | ||
| Krista Registered user Username: Krista Post Number: 27 Registered: 8-2004 |
Colleen, I really appreciate the info. My husband and I are studying the Bible with Greg's book. Any suggestion on which subjects to approach first? EGW, the Sabbath, other doctrines, etc.? There is just so much, it's a bit overwhelming, you know! Thanks!! | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 784 Registered: 12-2003 |
Krista, have you read Dale Ratzlaff's book The Cultic Doctrine of Seventh-day Adventists or Sydney Cleveland's book, White Washed? They were HUGELY helpful to me in figuring out the truth about Ellen. Also Canright's book on Ellen G White. These books are all available through Dale Ratzlaff's website, www.ratzlaf.org. I think you would find them really revealing. My experience in studying the doctrines was that I had to deal with the Sabbath first. The subject of the soul/spirit came up next for me and included what happens at death. I asked God to direct my study, to help me know what I needed to read, to guide me to books He knew I needed, to direct my Bible study. I also discovered that being part of Bible study classes at church was really helpful. Studying with Christians who do not have the SDA template in their minds yields amazing insights. If your church doesn't offer in depth Bible studies (though it probably does!), Bible Study Fellowship or Community Bible Study are very good options. You can go online and find the group meeting nearest to you. Just relax and allow God to direct your learning, Krista. He will--He knows what you need right now, and He knows how hungry you are for the truth. One other comment--I personally retain and "get" much more out of my Bible study when I take notes on what I study. I also follow the marginal references for certain words, and often a surprisingly broad perspective show itself as I read what other Bible writers have said about the same thing. With prayers for you and your husband, Colleen | ||
| Dennis Registered user Username: Dennis Post Number: 182 Registered: 4-2000 |
Krista, With intentional ambiguity and complexity, many facets of Adventism are most difficult to examine, understand, and expose (i.e., their stance on abortion, their exclusive investigative judgment, etc.). As you may already know, it is not uncommon to find two opposing views, on a single topic, in the writings attributed to Ellen White. Therefore, whatever "Spirit of Prophecy" evidence you may present, the Adventist apologists can cite yet another contradicting quotation as also being a "continuing and authorative source of truth." In short, Ellen White is "all over the road" on many key doctrines. Dirk Anderson's website (www.ellenwhite.org) is an outstanding source for in-depth, factual research on Ellen White's extrabiblical teachings. Since the late 1950s, Seventh-day Adventists have had a deep yearning to appear as Evangelicals. Their book, QUESTIONS ON DOCTRINE, published n 1957 with no author listed, is a prime example of this desperate strategy to appear Evangelical--thereby hoping to remove their cult stigma. Since then, however, the Seventh-day Adventist Church has officially replaced and deleted key words in some doctrinal statements (i.e., the words "all-sufficient" and "unerring" were REMOVED from their statement on the authority of Scripture). This action allowed room for the extrabiblical writings of their messenger and prophetess, Ellen G. White. [The above are excerpts from the PROLOGUE of my booklet entitled "Beyond Adventism: The "Truth" Re-examined"] His grace still amazes me, Dennis J. Fischer | ||
| Ric_b Registered user Username: Ric_b Post Number: 53 Registered: 7-2004 |
It is hard to pick a starting point for unravelling the hold of SDAism. I am becoming convinced that some of the subtle elements have just a damaging of hold as the more clear items. For instance the idea that one of Satan's charges against God is that His law couldn't be kept. And that Christ's mission was to prove this wrong. This seemingly innocent addition to Scripture warps one's view of the law--elevating its status; one's view of their own continuing state of sin; one's view of salvation; and one's view of Christ. How can one accept that they remain a sinner when that is directly against what they have been taught Christ came to prove. Christ becomes an example rather than the Savior. | ||
| Susan_2 Registered user Username: Susan_2 Post Number: 1002 Registered: 11-2002 |
I was most definantly, 100% taught in SDA schools and in SDA Sabbath Schools growing up that Jesus is our example, that if (notice the word 'if') He could live a perfect life than we also can live perfect lives "if we try hard enough". I cannot even venture a guess on how many times I have heard SDA ministers, evengalsts and lay members streess that we must "try harder". Eventually all this trying will hurry up the return of Jesus in the clouds of glory. The good news is that this evening we had a great seremon on Grace. I think this is one of the reasons I'm so drawn to the Lutheran denomination, they really seem to have grace down. | ||
| Melissa Registered user Username: Melissa Post Number: 527 Registered: 7-2003 |
Ric, you have picked up one of the most confusing topics in adventism to me. There is absolutely nothing in scripture about "God's government" as B calls it...not that I've been able to find. I presume that is an ellenism. I remember him talking about God having meetings with angels to discuss certain things, and one of my friends said "an angelic board meeting? I don't think so." I can't find anything in scripture that would seem to support this idea that Jesus and Satan were somehow arguing over keeping a holy day. And it gets even more confusing to me since SDAs believe the Sabbath was created at creation....so, did Satan rebel after creation? How can that be? And by nature of being eternal, shouldn't the Sabbath have always been? As long as God has existed? Oh, I just get so confused on some of these things which don't seem to have a single link to scripture. Yet, B is certainly dogmatic about them.... | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 790 Registered: 12-2003 |
Ric, thank you for bringing up your awareness of the danger of Adventism's subtleties. I've found exactly the same phenomenon to be true. As the years have gone by since leaving the church, I've become more and more aware of how twisted and misleading and blasphemous the essence of Adventism is, and that warping is the result of the ambiguous (as you said, Dennis) and subtle teachings that don't seem particularly dangerous or heretical on the surface. Your example, Ric, of the idea of Satan's charges against God warping one's view of the law--and also of Satan himself while subordinating Jesus at the same time--is excellent. The whole "Great controversy" theme is heretical. Adventists, even those who believe they are saved by grace and not the Sabbath, do not see Jesus as He really is because of the broad brush strokes of subtle Arianism and the distortion of Ellen's portrayal of Jesus pleading with the Father to allow Him to die. You're right, Melissa--there's absolutely no Biblical refernece to support the idea of "God's government" or that Satan accused God of unfairness. That's an Adventist invention. In many ways Adventism's words and teaching (ie "plan of salvation", etc.) are eerily reminiscent of Mormon words and teachings. Praise God for revealing Himself to us! Colleen |
