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Username: Wolfgang

Post Number: 10
Registered: 10-2005
Posted on Friday, December 30, 2005 - 5:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

WHEN it says in Rev 14:12 here is the patience of the saints here are they that keep the commandments of God,and the faith of Jesus.
What commandments are they talking about if we are not bound by them anymore?
and in Rev 22:14 Blesed are they that do His commandments,that they may have the right to the tree of life. thanks,Im just doing alot of searching right now,and although Im not "keeping" the Sabbath as I used too I still think we are to remember them,Im just staying with the bible just as I think all of the ten commandments are important can I keep them? no,but I can try to live by them and consider them a delight.
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Username: Another_carol

Post Number: 275
Registered: 12-2002
Posted on Friday, December 30, 2005 - 7:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I would encourage you to read 2 Corinthians 3 and come to a conclusion with the Holy Spirit leading just exactely what this chapter is talking about.

When that is solidified in your mind then go to Galatians 3 and find out just what the commandments were in fact for.

Then go to 1 John and read thru very carefully again asking the Holy Spirit to guide you into Truth that only God can give. See in this book what "The Commandment" is.

I pray that as you read the words of Paul, who I would pray that you believe was taught by the only teacher with perfect credentials,that your question concerning the comandments would be answered.

I would also encourage you to go to all the spoken words of Jesus, The Only Perfect Teacher and ascertain if in fact Jesus taught the keeping of the 10 commandments or if in fact He taught:

Matthew 22:37-39

37Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' 38This is the first and greatest commandment. 39And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.

Any questions; please ask and let us use the Bible to find our answers.

Thank you, Another Carol
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Username: Jorgfe

Post Number: 28
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Friday, December 30, 2005 - 7:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wolfgang, you have a very good attitude. It is my prayer that the Holy Spirit will "lead you (and us) into all truth." I found when I started seeking the truth that the Holy Spirit started feeding me as fast as I could absorb it.

While I don't have the answers, there are three areas that touch on what you are asking about that have helped me to see the "bigger picture".

1. Different translations phrase this in different ways.
2. I found a very good paper to read is Sabbatarianism Re-examined at:

I currently studying this and today got to:
"A pious Jew reading this scripture would more likely think of the 613 commandments of the Torah. The Christian might also legitimately include such commandments as "Be baptized" or "Go into all the world and preach the gospel."

3. I have found it helpful to think of these two verses within the larger backdrop of the points that Christ, and later the rest of the New Testament emphasize. I personally believe, that the Bible, rightly understood, is the inspired Word of God -- and that He would not allow disharmony and conflicting doctrine to be purportrated either by His Word, or through the leading of the Holy Spirit. That means to me that if I find a verse, that doesn't appear to agree with the rest of the Bible, I attribute its apparent difference to my lack of understanding the big picture. In this case I interpret the "big" picture to consist of the time pointing forward to Christ as our spiritual "Exodus", and the time after Christ's resurrection as the birth of the Christian Church. A study of #2 above has been fascinating in this regard. My wife recently pointed out to me that there were many other descendents of Abraham to whom the Abrahamic promises applied, that were not part of the Jewish "children of Israel" and so they would never have received the Mosaic Laws. This is what caused such a dissention between the Hebrewic Christians and, the Greek Christians that had received no such Jewish Laws. Also I found it very interesting how when the power shifted from the Jerusalem Christian (Hebrew) power center after AD 70-135 to the Roman Christian (Greek) power center that they came up with their own set of rules, etc. That is what Paul had to deal with in the book of Romans. I think I got that right :-) Very interesting to study this within the historical context of the day.

Please share with us what you learn. :-)

Registered user
Username: Wolfgang

Post Number: 11
Registered: 10-2005
Posted on Friday, December 30, 2005 - 9:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I will look at these sites more importantly study my bible.and let you know,thanks for the encouraging words,dawn
ps I have always felt that the Sabbath issue is a small part of a big picture,I believe in the end time we will be defending the cross and not the Sabbath
Registered user
Username: Colleentinker

Post Number: 3129
Registered: 12-2003

Posted on Friday, December 30, 2005 - 11:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yes, Wolfgang--you are basically right. We will be demonstrating our loyalty to Jesus, not to the Sabbath.

I also encourage you to read Greg and Paula Taylor's story/study on the "Stories" page of this website. It contains the outline of the study Greg did as he studied the Sabbath question. Also, the book Sabbath in Christ by Dale Ratzlaff (available through is perhaps the most comprehensive study on the covenants and the law that I've ever seen. It's so helpful!


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