| Author | Message | ||
| Agapetos Registered user Username: Agapetos Post Number: 43 Registered: 10-2002 |
In the continuing Sabbath/Covenant discussions with my father, he cited how the 4th commandment says God made the "Sabbath" holy at creation. I wrote in response something I noticed a few days earlier... ***** Here is something you may not have realized: Genesis was written at or after the time of Moses. This means that a lot of the terms are used retrospectively. Here is one example: when Abram's nephew Lot was taken captive by four kings, Abram called out 318 trained men and "went in pursuit as far as Dan." As you may remember, the territory of "Dan" is named after Dan---one of Jacob's 12 sons who later became one of the 12 tribes of Israel. To say that Abram went to "Dan" would be like saying George Washington went to Phoenix, Arizona----Phoenix, AZ didn't exist yet when George Washington was around! It's the same with Abram---Dan didn't yet exist! Genesis uses terms that were given in Moses' time. In the same way, "Sabbath" was not used until Moses' time. ***** Do you know of any other examples of this retrospective vocabulary in the Torah? If you do, please share them here. It'd be nice to collect them and make a note of them for when this "Sabbath" question comes up again. | ||
| Brian3 Registered user Username: Brian3 Post Number: 49 Registered: 8-2005 |
How bout right after the supposed "Sabbath" reference: Gen 2:11-14 The name of the first is Pishon; it runs through the entire land of Havilah, where there is gold. 12 (The gold of that land is pure; pearls and lapis lazuli are also there). 13 The name of the second river is Gihon; it runs through the entire land of Cush. 14 The name of the third river is Tigris; it runs along the east side of Assyria. The fourth river is the Euphrates. Did the lands of Havilah, Cush or Assyria exist in Adam and Eve's time? | ||
| Jeremy Registered user Username: Jeremy Post Number: 1316 Registered: 10-2004  |
What's interesting, though, is that the word Sabbath is not even used in Genesis. Even in Exodus 20, when it speaks of God "resting" (ceasing), again it says "the seventh day"--not "Sabbath." When it says "therefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day and made it holy," I believe it is referring to Exodus 16 when God gave the Sabbath (for the first time) to Israel. Genesis 2:3 is Moses quoting later (retrospectively) from the Ten Words spoken by God on Mount Sinai. When Genesis 2:3 speaks of God blessing the seventh day it is an anachronism--it is speaking retrospectively of something which occurred later in Exodus 16. In other words, God did not bless/sanctify the Sabbath at creation and I don't think it's even saying that He blessed/sanctified the seventh day at creation. Another good example of Moses using retrospective/anachronistic language is the following passage:
Verse 34 (at least) is speaking retrospectively, since at this point, the Testimony (the two tablets of stone with the Ten Words written on them) had not been given yet. Jeremy (Message edited by Jeremy on June 01, 2006) | ||
| Agapetos Registered user Username: Agapetos Post Number: 48 Registered: 10-2002  |
You know, I remembered one soon after shutting my computer down, Genesis 32:31-32... Jacob "was limping because of his hip. Therefore **to this day** the Israelites do not eat the tendon attached to the socket of the hip, because the socket of Jacob's hip was touched near the tendon." I'm wondering if anyone's found more anchronisms/retrospective language throughout the rest of the Torah (Genesis through Deuteronomy)? I'm sure it's all over the place, especially obvious in Genesis, but examples from Exodus would particularly be useful. | ||
| Doc Registered user Username: Doc Post Number: 226 Registered: 2-2003 |
Hello AgapÈtos, One anachronism is found in the use of God's name YHWH. According to Ex 3, this name was revealed to Moses by the burning bush, and Ex 6: 3 says that this name was not known to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. On the other hand, YHWH first occurs in Gen 2: 4 and it is also used in passages dealing with Abraham (e.g. Gen 12: 1), Isaac (26: 2), and Jacob (28: 13). Hope this helps, Adrian |
