| Author | Message | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 430 Registered: 9-2006  |
Three days In a discussion with Adventist today we were discussing Matthew chapter 16 and when we came to Mat 16:4 someone referred that scripture to the profit Jonah where Jonah was tree days in the belly of the fish. One Adventist jumps up and says that that was not correct and Jesus was not in the grave three days but was only there from sundown Friday evening to early Sunday morning. Would someone clarify for me the Adventist belief on this? (Mat 16:4 KJV) A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas. And he left them, and departed. My take on the three days in the tomb derives from several scriptures. (John 2:19 KJV) Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. (Jonah 1:17 KJV) Now the LORD had prepared a great fish to swallow up Jonah. And Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights. (Mat 17:23 KJV) And they shall kill him, and the third day he shall be raised again. And they were exceeding sorry. (Mat 16:21 KJV) From that time forth began Jesus to show unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day. (Luke 24:20 KJV) And how the chief priests and our rulers delivered him to be condemned to death, and have crucified him. (Luke 24:21 KJV) But we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, to day is the third day since these things were done. (Luke 24:22 KJV) Yea, and certain women also of our company made us astonished, which were early at the sepulchre; (Luke 24:23 KJV) And when they found not his body, they came, saying, that they had also seen a vision of angels, which said that he was alive. (Mat 12:40 KJV) For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. Now it seems as I read Johnís account, would seem to indicate Jesus would not have been dead three days and yet the scripture plainly tells he was. (John 19:31 KJV) The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away. (John 20:1 KJV) The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre. Wouldnít that have to have been Monday morning, not Sunday Morning? Now I had never really given this subject any thought before as me being simple minded, it was always enough for me that he was raised up, saved me. Glory to God. I am asking you all because I know your minds have been sharpened on the grindstone of tribulation and sometimes even persecution, now I thank God I am just a 4x4 evangelical but you folk sometimes have the Advantage. River (Mat 27:45 KJV) Now from the sixth hour there was darkness over all the land unto the ninth hour. What time would the sixth hour have been in our time? What time do you think Jesus was taken down and laid in the tomb? Did Ellen White remark on this? Help! I better shut up, I am beginning to drown in questions! | ||
| U2bsda Registered user Username: U2bsda Post Number: 444 Registered: 11-2004 |
As far as I know most SDAs believe Jesus was dead for 3 days and 3 nights. I know some believe (not SDAs) that the Thursday and/or the Friday was a feast Sabbath day and believe the crucifixion was on Wednesday or Thursday. | ||
| Brian3 Registered user Username: Brian3 Post Number: 77 Registered: 8-2005 |
Since the bible clearly states he rose on the first day of the week I think we can rule out Monday. That leaves us with a Wednesday crucifixion or you have to buy into the theory that 3 days could be any part of 3 days in the Jewish vernacular. Personally, because it is specifically given as 3 days and 3 nights I don't think it was Jewish vernacular. Also, in the various gospel accounts we have the women preparing and or buying spice (embalming) before and after Sabbath. While this does not make it conclusive it does account for a Wednesday crucifixion (Jesus placed in the tomb just after/at sundown, Passover and preparation for Thursday High Sabbath), Thursday (First day of feast of unleavened bread, a Sabbath), Friday (preparation day for weekly Sabbath), Saturday (Weekly Sabbath), Sunday (Resurrection). Wednesday Night, Night 1 Thursday, Day 1 Thursday Night, Night 2 Friday, Day 2 Friday Night, Night 3 Saturday, Day 3 Sometime Saturday Night/Sunday Morning, Resurrection | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 433 Registered: 9-2006 |
Brian3, Thanks for that, I buy that explanation and its a very interesting subject come to think on it. Does anybody have EGW's take on it? The man talked like he had been taught what he said. I can't put my finger on why I think that. It just sounded like what Adventist sound like when they repeat what the have they been taught. Of course he could have been parroting another one of Doug Bachelors amazing facts. River | ||
| U2bsda Registered user Username: U2bsda Post Number: 446 Registered: 11-2004 |
River, I remember shortly before the events that led to my leaving the SDA church I encountered a person (non-SDA) who told me about the Wednesday/Thursday crucifixion belief. I downright thought it was silly at the time. In my SDA mind I thought the person was ignorant and didn't know anything about the Bible and that the person would be EASY to convert to SDAism. Based on that I am assuming other SDAs believed in the 3 days 3 nights but that they were more like part-days. I'm eating crow now!! It was that very person that I thought was ignorant of the Bible who helped me really start to understand the Bible and I am still learning from that person today  | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 434 Registered: 9-2006 |
U2, I know what crow tastes like, seems like I keep myself on a steady diet of crow meat.  | ||
| Raven Registered user Username: Raven Post Number: 717 Registered: 7-2004  |
John 19:31 says "Then the Jews, because it was the day of preparation, so that the bodies would not remain on the cross on the Sabbath (for that Sabbath was a high day), asked Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away." Doesn't "that Sabbath was a high day" mean a ceremonial Sabbath that falls on a weekly Sabbath? That how I understood it, and that would make the crucifixion preparation day on a Friday. I've never had a problem with the Jewish understanding that part of a day is considered in the counting. So why can't 3 days and 3 nights mean parts of three 24 hour periods? Besides, Matthew 16:21, Matthew 17:23, Matthew 20:10, Luke 9:22, Acts 10:40 and 1 Corinthians 15:4 all say Jesus was to rise/did rise "on the third day". If it were 3 literal days and 3 literal nights, it would have to be "on the 4th day". That's another reason I'm ok with the partial days. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 5319 Registered: 12-2003  |
I understand it as you do, Raven. Colleen | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 436 Registered: 9-2006 |
(Mat 12:40 KJV) For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. There you have three lights and three darks. God in the beginning called day,day and night, night. River | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 438 Registered: 9-2006 |
Another discussion I was having with my Adventist friends was concerning the passage of scripture in (Mat 19:8 NIV) Jesus replied, "Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. (Mat 19:9 NIV) I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, and marries another woman commits adultery." Now of course the conversation drifted to the proliferation of divorce even among the church, one of the group began to rail on about how anyone who had gotten divorce, accept for adultery, were living in Sin and breaking the law, and of course he himself was still married. I said ìWe need to remember here that there is forgiveness, if someone comes to themselves realizing Sin, God can and does forgive Sin.î Of course old River didnít win a popularity contest as usual, I am a fly in their ointment. All they (Adventist friends) hold out to the world is hopelessness and harsh judgment, they hardly ever say a word of faith and hope to anybody, but every time they hold out their hopelessness I point to the cross, repentance and forgiveness. I know a man that is doing life in prison who has a lot more going for him than these people. I donít suppose that I will have them climbing flagpoles tomorrow but it seems like the Lord is giving me more and more chances to point toward him. God give me sharpness of mind and wisdom to hold out hope and faith to them. I wish I had the chance to point to the woman at the well who had had five husbands and was shacking up, how Jesus indicated ìIf you knew who it was you are talking too, I would give you the water of life and you would never thirst againî I only hope what I did get to say did some good. (John 17:17 NIV) Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth. (John 4:10 NIV) Jesus answered her, "If you knew the gift of God and who it is that asks you for a drink, you would have asked him and he would have given you living water." Some of you folks may think Iím all wet but if we cannot hold out hope, a ray of light to this world, what have we to offer them except what they already have? If any of you think Adventist are drinking the living water then you donít know the ones that I know or else Iím just a fool. Yes we need to call Sin, Sin, but we need to also point to the cure. Sabbath keeping is not the cure, Jesus is the cure. River | ||
| Mwh Registered user Username: Mwh Post Number: 490 Registered: 4-2006  |
To look more into the Wednesday interpretation: http://www.biblestudy.org/basicart/threeday.html | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 441 Registered: 9-2006 |
Thanks for that link Martin, I believe the guy makes perfect sense. | ||
| Mwh Registered user Username: Mwh Post Number: 491 Registered: 4-2006 |
Oh and btw, this site seems to be adventist | ||
| Raven Registered user Username: Raven Post Number: 718 Registered: 7-2004 |
I think the site looks more like a Sabbatarian Church of God. Either way, its interpretation of the 3 days and 3 nights is not mainstream SDA teaching. |
