| Author | Message | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 1403 Registered: 11-2005 |
Exposing Adventism - Wicked Children God Does Not Love Ellen's "inspiration" revealed to her information that the Bible writers overlooked. The Lord loves those little children who try to do right, and he has promised that they shall be in his kingdom. But wicked children God does not love. (Appeal to Youth, p. 61)God's Word tells us: Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love. 1 John 4:8 (NIV)God's character defines the meaning of love. Gilbert Jorgensen | ||
| Angelcat Registered user Username: Angelcat Post Number: 5 Registered: 11-2008 |
This EGW quote was the beginning of the end of my belief in EGW. For years I explained it away by saying it was a personal letter and not inspired, but it always bothered me. My family said it was inspired, and agreed with it. | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 1405 Registered: 11-2005 |
There is one straight chain of truth without one heretical sentence in that which I have written." — Ellen G. White, Letter 329A, 1905 In the testimonies sent to Battle Creek, I have given you the light God has given to me. In no case have I given my own judgment or opinion. I have enough to write of what has been shown me, without falling back on my own opinions. You are doing as the children of Israel did again and again. Instead of repenting before God, you reject His words, and attribute all the warnings and reproof to the messenger whom the Lord sends.--Testimony for the Battle Creek Church, pp. 50-58 (1882). {3SM 70.1} Permit me to express my mind, and yet not my mind, but the word of the Lord.--Letter 89, 1899. (Quoted in Counsels to Writers and Editors, p. 112.) {3SM 70.2} The statement which you quote from "Testimony," No. 31, that "in these letters which I wrote, in the Testimonies I bear, I am presenting to you that which the Lord has presented to me. I do not write one article in the paper, expressing merely my own ideas. They are what God has opened before me in vision -- the precious rays of light shining from the throne," is correct. It is true concerning the articles in our papers and in the many volumes of my books. I have been instructed in accordance with the Word in the precepts of the law of God. I have been instructed in selecting from the lessons of Christ. Are not the positions taken in my writings in harmony with the teachings of Jesus Christ? If not, point it out to me. {RH, September 6, 1906 par. 1} Yet now when I send you a testimony of warning and reproof, many of you declare it to be merely the opinion of Sister White. You have thereby insulted the Spirit of God. You know how the Lord has manifested Himself through the spirit of prophecy. Past, present, and future have passed before me. I have been shown faces that I had never seen, and years afterward I knew them when I saw them. I have been aroused from my sleep with a vivid sense of subjects previously presented to my mind; and I have written, at midnight, letters that have gone across the continent and, arriving at a crisis, have saved great disaster to the cause of God. This has been my work for many years. A power has impelled me to reprove and rebuke wrongs that I had not thought of. Is this work of the last thirty-six years from above or from beneath? {5T 64.3} When I went to Colorado I was so burdened for you that, in my weakness, I wrote many pages to be read at your camp meeting. Weak and trembling, I arose at three o'clock in the morning to write to you. God was speaking through clay. You might say that this communication was only a letter. Yes, it was a letter, but prompted by the Spirit of God, to bring before your minds things that had been shown me. In these letters which I write, in the testimonies I bear, I am presenting to you that which the Lord has presented to me. I do not write one article in the paper expressing merely my own ideas. They are what God has opened before me in vision--the precious rays of light shining from the throne. {5T 67.2} Many times in my experience I have been called upon to meet the attitude of a certain class who acknowledged that the testimonies were from God, but took the position that this matter and that matter were Sister White's opinion and judgment. This suits those who do not love reproof and correction, and who, if their ideas are crossed, have occasion to explain the difference between the human and the divine. {2MR 87.2} If the preconceived opinions or particular ideas of some are crossed in being reproved by testimonies, they have a burden at once to make plain their position to discriminate between the testimonies, defining what is Sister White's human judgment and what is the word of the Lord. Everything that sustains their cherished ideas is divine, and the testimonies to correct their errors are human--Sister White's opinions. They make of none effect the counsel of God by their tradition.--Ms 16, 1889, p. 1. ("The Discernment of Truth," circa Jan. 1889. 3SM p. 69.) {2MR 87.3} And now, brethren, I entreat you not to interpose between me and the people, and turn away the light which God would have come to them. Do not by your criticisms take out all the force, all the point and power, from the Testimonies. Do not feel that you can dissect them to suit your own ideas, claiming that God has given you ability to discern what is light from heaven and what is the expression of mere human wisdom. If the Testimonies speak not according to the Word of God, reject them.--Testimonies, vol. 5, p. 691. {3SM 46.3} Let the Testimonies be judged by their fruits. What is the spirit of their teaching? What has been the result of their influence? "All who desire to do so can acquaint themselves with the fruits of these visions. For seventeen years God has seen fit to let them survive and strengthen against the opposition of Satan's forces and the influence of human agencies that have aided Satan in his work." {5T 671.1} "God is either teaching His church, reproving their wrongs and strengthening their faith, or He is not. This work is of God, or it is not. God does nothing in partnership with Satan. My work . . . bears the stamp of God or the stamp of the enemy. There is no halfway work in the matter. The Testimonies are of the Spirit of God, or of the devil." [VOL. 4, P. 230.] {5T 671.2} As the Lord has manifested Himself through the spirit of prophecy, past, present, and future have passed before me. I have been shown faces that I had never seen, and years afterward I knew them when I saw them. I have been aroused from my sleep with a vivid sense of subjects previously presented to my mind; and I have written, at midnight, letters that have gone across the continent and, arriving at a crisis, have saved great disaster to the cause of God. This has been my work for many years. A power has impelled me to reprove and rebuke wrongs that I had not thought of. Is this work of the last thirty-six years from above or from beneath?" [VOL. 5, PP. 64, 65 (1882).] {5T 671.3} At that time [after the 1844 disappointment] one error after another pressed in upon us; ministers and doctors brought in new doctrines. We would search the Scriptures with much prayer, and the Holy Spirit would bring the truth to our minds. Sometimes whole nights would be devoted to searching the Scriptures and earnestly asking God for guidance. Companies of devoted men and women assembled for this purpose. The power of God would come upon me, and I was enabled clearly to define what is truth and what is error. {3SM 31.4} As the points of our faith were thus established, our feet were placed upon a solid foundation. We accepted the truth point by point, under the demonstration of the Holy Spirit. I would be taken off in vision, and explanations would be given me. I was given illustrations of heavenly things, and of the sanctuary, so that we were placed where light was shining on us in clear, distinct rays.--Gospel Works, p. 302. {3SM 32.1} Gilbert Jorgensen | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 6047 Registered: 3-2004  |
Gilbert, She got so many things wrong. When I found this out almost 5 years ago, I began to wonder who it was that showed her. It was not God who showed her all those things. Our awesome God would not lie, contradict His Word, the Bible and take from others. Diana L | ||
| Gcfrankie Registered user Username: Gcfrankie Post Number: 243 Registered: 1-2007 |
If you notice in Matthew 19:13-15, concerning children no where does it say that Jesus distinguished good from bad children. Matt 19:14, Jesus said, "Let the little children come to me and do not hinder them, for to such belongs the kingdom of heaven." This reminds me of a friend of mine who once was a JW and after she left with her family her children told her they were so glad to be gone because they lived in fear of sinning and always looking over their shoulders to see if they were going to be stuck dead for some sin. What a horrible burden of fear to put on a child. To me it strikes of mental abuse. Gail | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 9057 Registered: 12-2003  |
"Sometimes whole nights would be devoted to searching the Scriptures and earnestly asking God for guidance. Companies of devoted men and women assembled for this purpose. The power of God would come upon me, and I was enabled clearly to define what is truth and what is error. {3SM 31.4}" Ahem--somehow I do believe some power would come upon her, but it clearly could not have been God. Colleen | ||
| Jorgfe Registered user Username: Jorgfe Post Number: 1406 Registered: 11-2005 |
Colleen, she might say that the power of God came on her, but she also says that she had no clue what God was telling her at the time! Exposing Adventism - Ellen White's mind "locked". God responsible. "Many of our people do not realize how firmly the foundation of our faith has been laid. My husband, Elder Joseph Bates, Father Pierce, [older brethren among the pioneers are here thus reminiscently referred to. "Father Pierce" was Stephen Pierce, who served in ministerial and administrative work in the early days.] Elder [Hiram] Edson, and others who were keen, noble, and true, were among those who, agter the passing of the time in 1844, searched for the truth as for hidden treasure. I met with them, and we studied and prayed earnestly. Often we remained together until late at night, and sometimes through the entire night, praying for light and studying the word. Again and again these brethren came together to study the bible, in order that they might know its meaning, and be prepared to teach it with power. When they came to the point in their study where they said, "We can do nothing more,' the Spirit of the Lord would come upon me, I would be taken off in vision, and a clear explanantion of the passages we had been studying would be given me, with instruction as to how we were to labor and teach effectively. Thus light was given that helped us to understand the scriptures in regard to Christ, His mission, and His priesthood. A line of truth extending from that time to the time when we shall enter the city of God, was made plain to me, and I gave to others the instruction that the Lord had given me.Talk about a bunch of BS! Ellen White and Joseph Smith are two branches off the same trunk. Gilbert Jorgensen |
