Post Number: 1756
|Posted on Sunday, March 13, 2011 - 12:34 pm: || |
At work there's an Adventist lady, to whom I pointed out what Ellen White said in the first chapter of the book; "Spirit of Prophecy" volume 1. (Back when I was an Adventist, I didn't even know there was such a book! I thought ALL her writings were called that!) Anyway, it's on about pages 16-17 of the little hard cover that I bought from the ABC. Ellen White says that the Father gathered all the angels together to announce that from now on, "Christ, his Son, should be equal with himself; so that wherever was the presence of his Son, it was as his own presence." EGW goes on to say that Satan was jealous because of that, thinking that he himself was a favorite among the angels and wondering why Jesus should be honored before himself.
The lady at work explained that the Father was only reminding the angels that Jesus is equal to the Father and that they needed reminding because of the trouble that Satan was stirring up in Heaven. She totally ignored the fact that according to Ellen White, this is what STARTED the whole trouble! And besides, what intelligent angel would need reminding Who God is?!?!
And there's also my sister whom I've been emailing. For a while she got a friend to help in emailing me, and I tried to point out to them how Moses told Israel that, "The LORD did not make this covenant with our fathers, but with us, those who are here today, all of us who are alive." Deuteronomy 5:3 (Also see Deut. 4:13 to see that that covenant was the Ten Commandments)
My sister and her friend tried to get around that by trying to get me to define fathers. (I don't remember if I pointed out the corresponding verses in the New Testament - Gal. 3:17-19 - that say that the law came 430 years after Abraham.)
It's amazing how Adventist cling to their doctrines, no matter how badly they have to contort their thinking to do so! It's like they're desperate to believe that way!
Post Number: 790
|Posted on Sunday, March 13, 2011 - 3:55 pm: || |
I just shake my head at how hard they to work and how far they have to go to justify the church and egw.
Post Number: 9069
|Posted on Sunday, March 13, 2011 - 6:20 pm: || |
Adventists will twist and turn and spin as long as they can make it look like they are Biblical.
All we can do is pray for them.
Awesome God, be with the SDAs who read here that they will meet Jesus Christ and respond to His voice.
In Jesus name I ask, AMEN.
Post Number: 1676
|Posted on Sunday, March 13, 2011 - 9:12 pm: || |
. I believe the Bible has a definition to that:
My sister and her friend tried to get around that by trying to get me to define fathers
Deut 5:3, "The Lord did not make this covenant with our fathers, but with us.."
Deut. 4:13 "So He declared to you His covenant which He commanded you to perform, the Ten Commandments; and He wrote them on two tablets of stone."
I had the same problem. When did God make the covenant? In Exodus, 40 Years before Deut. All the parents from Exodus had died already, however Moses says that God did not make the covenant with them. It was not until I discover that the Bible uses "The fathers" as specific phrase which refers to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob:
The Ten Commandments
Deuteronomy 5:1-5 1 Moses summoned all Israel and said to them, “Israel, listen to the statutes and ordinances I am proclaiming as you hear them today. Learn and follow them carefully. 2 The LORD our God made a covenant with us at Horeb. 3 He did not make this covenant with our fathers, but with all of us who are alive here today. 4 The LORD spoke to you face to face from the fire on the mountain. 5 At that time I was standing between the LORD and you to report the word1 of the LORD to you, because you were afraid of the fire and did not go up the mountain. And He said:
Ex. (3:16) “Go and assemble the elders of Israel and say to them: Yahweh, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, has appeared to me and said: I have paid close attention to you and to what has been done to you in Egypt.
Deut (1:8) See, I have set the land before you. Enter and take possession of the land the LORD swore to give to your fathers Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob and their future descendants.’
Deut. 5:3-4, and also Moses saying to Israel: "So He declared to you His covenant which He commanded you to perform, the Ten Commandments; and He wrote them on two tablets of stone." Deut. 4:13 }
(Deut. 29:13) and so that He may establish you today as His people and He may be your God as He promised you and as He swore to your fathers Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.
Deut(30:20) love the LORD your God, obey Him, and remain faithful to Him. For He is your life, and He will prolong your life in the land the LORD swore to give to your fathers Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.”
So apparently, when Moses tell the Israelites in Deuteronomy about God not making the law with their parents, God was not referring to their immediate parents who died in the dessert, because He did make the covenants with them, but God was referring to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob. Obviously then, the law was not given to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, but it was given a lot later.
Post Number: 1764
|Posted on Sunday, March 13, 2011 - 11:00 pm: || |
Thank-you Hec. I plan to send that info on to my sister.
Post Number: 44
|Posted on Monday, March 14, 2011 - 2:38 pm: || |
I read a book about cults, and it seems that this experience is similar across the various cults. Whenever information doesn't seem to match reality, the cult will make an explanation for it, that gets accepted by the followers. I think it's sort of like this, 'I've invested to much time, energy, money, insert anything into the _____, and this (whatever the new explanation) just PROVES that what I believe is true. It's almost like they HAVE TO believe it... to save face, in front of themselves, and others.
Have you ever talked with someone, who after exiting a terrible marriage, says they had bad feelings about it before geting married, e.g. some forms of abuse had already begun, etc, etc., and they go through with it, because a) the wedding is already paid for, b) the invitations are already sent out, c) they've gone to far to back out, etc.
This will be something they admit, after getting out, but probably only something they barely let themselves think about before the marriage.
Getting into Adventism, is probably like getting into a bad marriage. You have all this good stuff up showing up front (the shiny flyer you got in the mail advertising the Evangelistic Meeting), but then slowly the bad theology creeps up on you, scares you, makes you afraid to leave (does this sound like an abusive marriage now?) and as has been my experience with SDAism, left me with more than a few scars that are now, thank God, healing, only with God's power.
I've read stories of where children were severely abused by their parents, or were abducted by strangers ('Stockholm syndrome'), and what they may end up doing is actually covering up for and defending their abusers/abductors.
That is why I believe Adventists are so quick to defend their prophet and belief system.
Post Number: 1119
|Posted on Monday, March 14, 2011 - 5:09 pm: || |
Wow, Mkfound! That is very intriguing! I do believe you are right.
Post Number: 12375
|Posted on Monday, March 14, 2011 - 10:25 pm: || |
Me too. You are absolutely right. I've often thought that Adventism has all the earmarks of an abusive relationship that's driven by and concurrently held together by fear.