Post Number: 1278
|Posted on Thursday, November 08, 2012 - 2:50 pm: || |
When do you finally draw the line about believing something is true or something is false?
In Adventism I was taught the tests to give to see if someone was a prophet or prophetess. I remember being told that if someone called themselves a prophet and their prophesy didn't come true - well, then they weren't a prophet.
What if someone says, "God showed me" and what they wrote or write is not in scripture? It may not be a prophesy for the future ... but it is incorrect Biblically.
At what point did you finally decide that maybe, just maybe, Ellen G. White wasn't who she said she was ... a prophetess for God?
Recently, I came across a question that was referring to Who God was and how He responded during the flood. As I was reading scripture I came across this passage, "And the LORD shut him in." Gen. 7:16.
The question was asked how did God provide for Noah?
As an Adventist we were taught from Ellen White that an angel shut the door of the ark. AN ANGEL. What does scripture say? The LORD. The LORD not only provided Noah the blueprints for the first boat ever built ... and one that would not sink during the upheaval of the earth during the flood ... God brought the animals to Noah ... And then God tucked, "Shut", the door of the ark. Not an angel.
How many examples are needed from scripture to finally counteract the belief that Ellen White is a continuing and authoritative source of truth and a prophetess? At what point do you finally go ... uh ha ... It doesn't add up ... 1 example? 2 examples? 25 examples?
If someone says they speak for God ... and then you find out that they are contrary to God's words ... How many times or how many examples do you finally need to come to terms that they just might not be speaking for God?
Post Number: 214
|Posted on Thursday, November 08, 2012 - 3:23 pm: || |
Post Number: 3
|Posted on Thursday, November 08, 2012 - 5:13 pm: || |
I am just now working my way through Canright's book "Seventh Day Adventism Renounced" and it just makes my brain spin reading about the beginnings of it all from someone who was there. I know that it is hard to admit when you have made a mistake in putting your confidence in someone but when error after error piles up, it does seem like they should have been willing to confess it. Instead they covered it over and made excuses.
Post Number: 712
|Posted on Thursday, November 08, 2012 - 5:40 pm: || |
The "Canright" book is so worth the read!
It was one of the first books I read when I began my
journey out~ In fact, it was not even in a "book form" at that time~
A friend of mine had gotten a hold of a xerox copy of the manuscript
and was xeroxing copies (at her expense) for anyone
she could get, to read it!
It really played an important part in my understanding of the perniciousness of adventism!
Cheering You On!
Post Number: 439
|Posted on Thursday, November 08, 2012 - 6:14 pm: || |
Jrt - ONE for me. I read thru the entire bible & got to Hebrews where Christ went beyond the veil, into the presence of God, most holy place. That did it for me.
Along the way, in both the OT & NT the warnings about false teachers & false teachings, which arise AMONG YOU - chosen Israel, believers of the Way - I saw that a prophecy coming true does not equal a true prophet, but ONE false prophecy disqualified them. God's prophecies always come true.
Post Number: 14086
|Posted on Thursday, November 08, 2012 - 10:19 pm: || |
I agree. Canright was pivotal. He was an eye witness, and the SDA church has lied about him.
Good question, Carolyn!
Post Number: 59
|Posted on Friday, November 09, 2012 - 2:32 am: || |
I have to admit that it tok me some time to get my eyes opened..... There is noone so blind as he who will not see! But finally the message got through to me, too.
Former adventist, nonegw og nonsda websites helped me a lot in the process.
And a LOT of prayers, Bible-reading and prayers again.....
The main reason why I left was EGW being a false prophetess.
Post Number: 2772
|Posted on Friday, November 09, 2012 - 6:37 am: || |
I agree…only one!
When I was ready to question whether or not Ellen G. White was a false prophet it would seem that it was at the leading of the Holy Spirit that I turned to Leviticus chapter sixteen. In verse five I saw that the two goats were a single offering. It was only by lot that one over the other was chosen to be the Scapegoat.
Many additional proofs came later but this was the moment when I knew she was false. It only takes one false statement to expose a person as a false prophet.
Post Number: 83
|Posted on Friday, November 09, 2012 - 8:04 am: || |
I, too, read Canright's book and LOVED it. Because he was an eyewitness to the formation of the church, his observations and conclusions held some level of authority and were pivotal in my journey out. (Interesting side note: Just a few weeks after I read that book, my husband happened to see on our former pastor's desk the book, "I Was Canright's Secretary," which is the SDA's attempt to smear his character. Pathetic.) The timing of that was uncanny... Like God was reminding me that our doctrinal/EGW issues weren't really going to be "heard" by the pastor and that it was time to get out.
I can say that my experience in coming to accept that EGW was a false prophet was somewhat gradual. Several years prior to my heart being completely convicted about her, I started reading a lot of EGW material, especially her Early Writings. I felt urged to read it because I'd finally come to a place of really needing to know what she actually had said, rather than just believing what I'd been taught.
What I read shocked me over and over (and these were her often referenced well-known writings and NOT the obscure hidden stuff)! I was especially struck with the tone of her words and the exceptionally harsh judgment she placed on those who fell away from "the truth." She condemned those who went back to their churches after realizing the Millerites had deceived them into believeing Jesus was coming in 1844. She called them eternally lost. She condemned the ministers in those churches for using SCRIPTURE to point out the early SDA's error in time-setting for the Second Coming. I knew this history, but to read her words in plain black and white shocked me. She said that if a person rejected the "truth" about the Heavenly Sanctuary being the explanation of what actually happened in 1844 that their prayers would rise to an "empty room" because Jesus had moved into the Most Holy Place and was no longer in the Holy Place. She also said that Satan would receive those prayers and answer them to deceive the people and make it appear as though God had heard them! So, from reading EGW's words only I concluded that 1) your prayers ascend to a room in Heaven and that Jesus only hears you if you know which room to pray to, 2) that Satan steps in and intercepts the prayers of the "misinformed nominal Adventists" and answers prayers, and 3) that if you rejected the new interpretation of the 1844 disaster you were now completely lost and essentially praying to Satan. Now, try finding that in Scripture! Something in me immediately recoiled at these words and I knew this couldn't be true. I understood the wrath of God and punishment for sin and rejection of Him, but what she was saying was that a person would receive the wrath of God and punishmnent for not believing her interpretation of 1844. These people had not rejected God. They had actually discovered that Scripture plainly stated that they could not know the day or hour of His coming and EGW condemned them to annihilation for stating the actual truth!
But, I was so brainwashed into believng that EGW was God's prophet that I was terrified to reject her for fear of grieving the Holy Spirit, even after reading her condemning, judgmental writings. Because I'd finally experienced real conversion, I only wanted to serve and please God, so the thought of rejecting EGW and possibly being wrong was a very hard transition. I now look at the horrible, blasphemous things she wrote and wonder why it was so hard for me. But, at the time, God's process for me required reading that stuff many times over the course of a few years. I had to sit with it for awhile. This was a foundation, of sorts. It was the Holy Spirit that finally completely removed the veil so that I could see, and the entire house of cards immediately fell away. At that point, all the foundational knowledge came flooding back and all the pieces fit together. Then, the conviction was immediate and the decision to leave the church was "easy." I had to meet a personal Saviour to know that who He really was was NOT what EGW had described. So, for me, it wasn't just in the heretical facts of what she said, but also in her misrepresentation of the character of God/Christ that spoke to me and led me out.
So, at what point does a person have enough examples to see clearly who EGW really was? I think it's different for everyone. It should only be ONE contradiction. But, because we were brainwashed, we were taught how to rationalize, justify and explain away contractions. If you're taught the explanation for the contradiction, then it ceases to be a contradiction in your mind. I think that's why one isn't usually enough. Seems crazy, and it is...
God's timing is always perfect and for some (like my 11 year old son) it only takes one contraction, and for others it takes 25. The extent to which a person was brainwashed with fear makes a difference with how they perceive reality. I must constantly humble myself when I'm frustrated with SDAs who don't "get it," because I was once sitting where they are. For me, it was a supernatural, miraculous lifting of the veil from my eyes that allowed me to see the facts for what they were. It was Spirit-led and in His perfect timing...
Thanks Jrt for asking this question. It's a good one to ponder...
Post Number: 91
|Posted on Friday, November 09, 2012 - 9:18 am: || |
Ideally, one single contradiction should be it. However, in reality, as Lyrical mentioned, there are so many ways that SDAs reason away those contradictions: "She didn't plagiarize, she just didn't cite. Totally acceptable in her day" or "Her prophecies were conditional" and so on. There are also the excuses totally unrelated to whether she was a prophet or not, such as "Just look! Her educated was so limited but she wrote so much at such an advanced level" or "Her knowledge of health and the human body were well beyond what was known in her day." I'm sure we all recognize both of those as false, so even the excuses used are sometimes lies that have become myths believed by the masses. It's so dysfunctional.
I was taught all of the excuses in Christian Beliefs at SWAU. It's almost like being in an abusive relationship and coming up with excuses for the abuser. The way one has to twist one's thinking in both situations seems similar.
I was lucky since I wasn't raised on EGW; I was just raised on beliefs based on her (the IJ, The GC, and all that). When I was approached with the idea that she was the prophet of the church when I was getting ready to be baptized, I just kind of believed it by word of mouth that her prophecies came true and she didn't contradict herself. When I really looked into it last year, that was the first thing to go: Ellen White is not a prophet.
I really feel that if each and every SDA researched this topic thoroughly and objectively most of them would come to the same conclusion that we have.
I'm currently reading Whitewashed and I'm finding it extremely interesting. I'm going to pass it along to my mom as soon as I'm done. My mom is kind of like, "Well, I still think she was a woman of God even if she was wrong sometimes" and I'm hoping that reading the book will help her see a little more clearly.
Post Number: 2863
|Posted on Friday, November 09, 2012 - 12:54 pm: || |
The very first thing that made me willing to actually look into it was what Daniel 10:13 said about Michael the archangel:
"But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me twenty-one days; and behold, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, for I had been left alone there with the kings of Persia." Daniel 10:13
That didn't sound to me like Jesus, who is God - "one of the chief princes"??? After that, I was actually willing to look into what I believed. Before that I was certain the SDA church was the ONE TRUE CHURCH, and I wasn't willing to question it.
The second thing were the verses in Hebrews that say Jesus had ALREADY gone into the Most Holy Place in Heaven.
Post Number: 9849
|Posted on Friday, November 09, 2012 - 4:58 pm: || |
When I read Dirk Anderson's website about EGW I decided, after I finished reading it, that I would never return to that church. She has had to much influence over it.
Post Number: 218
|Posted on Friday, November 09, 2012 - 8:11 pm: || |
Lyrical, Did your ever read EGW 's trash where she's says God hates naughty children?
Post Number: 84
|Posted on Saturday, November 10, 2012 - 9:11 am: || |
Oh, yes... I read all of that! I also read several letters she wrote to young people, admonishing them about their "inappropriate" behavior. By far the most disturbing one to me was a VERY long letter she wrote to her oldest son, Edson. (I can't find the link right now, but will post it if I can locate it.) It was the most horrific letter I could ever imagine a mother writing to her son. She was not happy about the girl he was spending time with, stating that she was not godly enough and would make him miserable if he married her. The letter was full of blame, guilt, shaming, and condemnation. It was as if she'd realized she couldn't control him and pulled out every sick tactic she should muster to attempt to force him to change. She accused him of not acknowledging her, as his mother, and respecting her as he should, "after all she'd done for him." And, on and on... Reading this was another pivotal point for me as I clearly realized a true woman of God would NEVER speak to her child in the ways she did. It was completely devoid of love... completely. Jesus didn't even speak to the Pharisees with the rudeness and disprespect EGW spoke to her own son! Here's just a very small excerpt of another letter she wrote to Edson that shows how she demeaned him and elevated his brother, Willie. So very sick and sad...
"You shall have all the means necessary for your tuition. But Edson, I hope you will not . . . let money, which is so important an item, slip through your hands without due and deliberate consideration. Live as plainly as we have taught and do not on any account become loose in regard to the principles of health reform. I need not tell you, Edson, that I have a thousand fears in regard to you. . . . Willie has been a great help to me. He is good and true, the best boy I ever knew."--Letter 4, 1866, pp. 1, 3. (To J. E. White, Sept. 22, 1866.)
Post Number: 14088
|Posted on Saturday, November 10, 2012 - 12:07 pm: || |
AAACK!!! Oh, my ... I'm not sure I have seen that letter before, Lyrical. To throw Willie into Edson's face is the last straw. How could Edson ever respect her? Such favoritism and dysfunction. Sigh.
That, my friends, is our common heritage, and it colored our families. Without doubt.
Praise God He adopts us and gives us new family in Jesus.
Post Number: 2865
|Posted on Saturday, November 10, 2012 - 12:18 pm: || |
Lyrical; My dad's middle name is Edson. I wonder if his devout SDA mother clobbered him over the head with EGWs letters to Edson. I remember her as being VERY legalistic, adhering as closely as possible to EGW's writings. My dad long ago left the SDA church, but he never became a Christian. At least 30 years after he left the SDA church, God rescued me from the SDA church, but praise the Lord, I'm a Christian!
Since becoming a Christian, I've found SO MANY contradictions between Ellen White and the Bible!
Post Number: 1279
|Posted on Saturday, November 10, 2012 - 3:42 pm: || |
I thank you all for your candid and honest responses!!
To be honest it took me over a year of studying and coming up with one after another missed prophesy and different than the Bible -EGW quote - that finally began to add up to that "point". And if I were to be totally honest - it was a kick in the pants by the Holy Spirit that sent me over the edge of finally removing my membership from the SDA Church.
I wish I could say it was one missed prophesy or one difference that I immediately made my decision. It was not. Why???
Why have most of us indicated a need for multiple avenues of truth to finally send us to our knees and out the doors of our Adventist Churches?
I wonder if the answer to the Why? question is found in Colleen's first post under "ARticle in Next Proclamation! about Abusive Religions".
When you have been traumatized into thinking you will be sent to God's damnation for leaving the Seventh-day Adventist Church - it takes multiple sources to sooth over those traumatic and mind controlling thoughts.
Early in my journey I brought a quote from EGW to help my new found pastor friend and another friend understand the stress of leaving the SDA Church.
The quote basically said that the worst condemnation was left for those that had left the truth ... They would be groaning and writhing in agony for having known the truth of the Sabbath and then left it. (If anyone knows that quote - please post) Was trying to find it before I head out to an appointment.
Another quote from EGW is "The greatest wealth of truth ever entrusted to mortals, the most solemn and fearful warnings ever sent by God to man, have been committed to them to be given to the world" And this refers to the SDA Church. [Testimonies to the Church vol. 7 pg. 138]
It is no wonder it takes more than one point of difference before any of us has the courage to leave. It is truly a work of the Holy Spirit. We were traumatized into understanding if we left - we were leaving God, the truth, and would be damned forever.
Post Number: 440
|Posted on Saturday, November 10, 2012 - 9:42 pm: || |
It WAS a process over time for me. In 1978 I 'got' salvation by grace & faith in Jesus alone. But it was 15 years later, that I realized I had to get what I SAID I believed & what I DID to match, that I dropped my membership in the sda church. Because I SAID I did not believe one had to be a member of the sda church to be saved, I had to take ACTION on that or my words meant nothing.
But it was another 10+ years before I seriously questioned the doctrines. That came when I began reading thru the bible alone, deciding to be what I said I was: Sola Scriptura. I had cried out to God for years to know HIs truth, according to His word, by His Spirit. But I had not put myself in the whole bible. I decided that if there were discrpancies, I would believe the bible. I got to Hebrews, where Christ ascended to heaven & went to the presence of God, beyond the veil, the most holy place that all of sdaism was up for grabs. It took a couple more years of reading & questioning to settle things, but we had quit church altogether in 2004, so it was easier to make the break.
So, yes, 1 thing showed me, flipped the switch, yet it was a process over 35 years.
Post Number: 34
|Posted on Sunday, November 11, 2012 - 4:30 am: || |
I am still amazed- after 35 years of being unchrched, convinced by my SDA programming that if I returned to church it would have to be SDA or apostate Sunday keeping- I remained in a spiritual wilderness, watched over by various recovery sponsors- like standing in a busy intersection all types of spirits whizzing by- when my Father intervened 18 mos ago and brought me to a church of believers, the first thing I did was look for the text that said " you will know my people by their keeping the Sabbath" and was sure it must be in there somewhere!- praise God He has been leading me into truth and this site has greatly accelerated that growth- I had to study out after fleeing out( I always despised the harsh and unloving spirit of egw.... Was told 4-5 years ago of her false prophet status by a PK that a happened to work with-) it takes what it takes and our Father is sooooo GOOD! thank you for every testimony of His awesome love I read here!
Post Number: 716
|Posted on Sunday, November 11, 2012 - 6:47 am: || |
This morning before I go to church, I want to
thank GOD Almighty for your deliverance!
Blessings and Prayers ~
Post Number: 35
|Posted on Sunday, November 11, 2012 - 8:49 pm: || |
Thank you mj- ...
Post Number: 85
|Posted on Monday, November 12, 2012 - 8:44 am: || |
Here are some excerpts from letters EGW wrote to her son, Edson. The poor child was so abused. I pray God had mercy on that poor man's soul...
(All of these letters are accessible through www.whiteestate.org. Click on the "Search Writings of Ellen G. White" tab and then "Search Ellen G. White's Writings" In the Section tab, choose "Manuscript Releases" and type under the Search tab "Edson," or any phrase you wish to research.)
And these "pearls" were written by the roots and trunk of the SDA family tree... These are portions of the letters that spoke deeply to my soul, showing me definitively that EGW was not a godly woman. Again, there is no love in her words. None.
"...You may ask, Why does Mother think I am not a child of God? One evidence is, you do not love to attend meetings on the Sabbath, and when you do go, sometimes [you] go to sleep. Edson, especially, fixes himself in an easy position and takes a nap when he should be listening to the instructions given from the Word of God.
Then again when we have family prayers, and when every one of you should feel grateful to God for His care over you through the night, you do not always seem as interested as I could wish in the hour of prayer, but have your eyes wide open, looking at the floor or around you. If you loved God you would love the hour of prayer, and while others are praying would close your eyes and would try to fix your mind on God and would be lifting your heart to Him for strength to do right through the day. God deserves your gratitude and love. And while you lack in these things you cannot be the children of God.
Other things I might mention: You do not love to condescend always to each other. Jesus says, "Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called the children of God." If you make peace with each other, if you condescend to one another's wishes instead of your own, you are peacemakers and Jesus calls you "Blessed."
If either of you should die and be laid in the silent grave, how would you who live feel? Every unkind word would be revived, every little unkindness would be a thorn in your heart."--Letter 21, 1861. (Written to "My Dear Sons Henry, Edson, and Willie," from Plum River, Illinois, March 25, 1861.) White Estate Washington, D. C. August 4, 1983
Notice in the following letter that EGW places responsibility for lost souls on Edson and that his behavior will counteract her influence!
"Dear children, I beg of you to be very careful of your deportment. Never, never feel that you may release your diligence to watch unto prayer....
My son, you must not trust to your own strength or have too good an opinion of your own attainments. I have continual fears lest Emma and you both will become careless and neglectful of your duty, that self-indulgence will deprive you of the precious blessings that are only realized by the self-sacrificing, humble, meek and lowly ones. You need to cultivate the graces of the Spirit of God. You have had great light, great privileges, and you will be responsible for all this amount of light. For years a voice has been speaking to you both from heaven, reproving, warning, and encouraging. Have you felt as you should the importance of cherishing every ray of light that has shone upon your pathway?
Emma, I was shown that your time is not always the best employed. You dwarf your mind in reading books that cannot improve the mind. The Bible you should make your study....
Not one of us can live to please and gratify self and yet have the approval of our Redeemer, who lived not to please Himself but to do others good. Our daily record is going up to heaven. What that record shall be our own course will determine. There are but few real missionaries for God in our world, but few who will work the works of Christ, but few who will love their neighbor as themselves, but few who will serve God with their undivided affection, and but few who will win the eternal weight of glory. According to the light received will be the condemnation of every individual... I have been shown that Edson will search the Scriptures to a limited degree, and his light and knowledge and ability to understand the Word of God will be limited to his researches and his prayer in humility and faith for a knowledge of the truth revealed in God’s Word. Light is sown for the righteous and truth for the upright in heart. There may be one hundred able men in the Scriptures where there is now one. But few hunger and thirst for divine knowledge revealed in the Bible, and the result is inefficiency and weakness as far as spirituality is concerned. God will not work by miracles to solve the mysteries of His Word to the lazy, careless, inattentive student. If you, my son, want to be a strong man in the understanding of the Word, search the Scriptures with a humble, prayerful heart.
Emma should read her Bible more and storybooks less. In reading fascinating storybooks, she loses all relish for the Scriptures. God has been speaking to His people in the Testimonies of His spirit, in the Spirit of Prophecy, to lead the minds of His people to the Bible teaching, and these lie on the shelf, neglected, unread, and unheeded.
Edson, I want you to keep one fact before you: that through your neglect to work constantly, earnestly, and perseveringly to perfect Christian character, you have, through the temptations of Satan, become wayward and your energies crippled, your capacities contracted, your desires worldly and selfish. Your soul might now be as “a watered garden,” whose waters fail not. Your own soul refreshed, you would be constantly refreshing others. Christ in you a well of water springing up into everlasting life. The souls you win to Christ will be heirs of immortal life, thus the life of Christ in you will be manifested to others, charming, winning, and gathering them to Christ. Heaven is worth a lifelong, persevering, and untiring effort. Those only who prize it as the pearl of great price and will sell all to obtain the precious treasure will come into possession of it.
Christ has made an infinite sacrifice for man, and man ... is now called upon to make sacrifices on his own account and in his own behalf.
Edson, very many professing to be followers of Christ are lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God.... If my own children are careless and constantly lukewarm, without religious zeal or fervor, they counteract the influence that God would have me exert. Souls will be lost through heedlessness and lack of devotion and piety.
I leave these lines with you, having a burdened soul that you both need this. You forget so easily and slide away from God so naturally, that you need to live hourly, daily, lives of watchfulness and prayer."—Letter 23, 1879, pp. 1-5. (To Edson and Emma White, August 5, 1879.)
"We received letters from home with gladness, but were a little disappointed that none came from you or Willie. I should not have expected much from Willie, but you can write, Edson....
When all around me are locked in slumber I am kept awake with anxiety and I can only obtain relief in silent prayer to God. I understand your dangers and your temptations as few parents can, for He who understandeth the secrets of the heart has been pleased to show me your peculiar dangers and besetments. I do not think you understand your dangers....
You ought to be my noble, truthful boy, a staff to your father, who is worn with care and constant labor, a comfort to your mother who has nursed you in sickness and cared for you in health. What can cause greater sorrow to parents with high principles and a keen sense of the beauty and importance of truth than to become convinced of the fact that their children are not truthful, that they have learned to deceive? ... Thorns and briers have sprung up in my garden and choked the seed which I have tried to sow. You may say, “Dear me, Mother feels very keenly over trifles. I may not have been exactly truthful in little trifles.” Trifles! Dear boy, there are no such things as trifles. Till truth itself is a trifle and valueless, no departure from it in any case can be called so....
You have so long cherished little habits of concealment (especially from your dear father), so long retreated from openness and candor, that you have become habitually secretive, even when there is often no inducement to be so. This makes you unsatisfactory, unstable, and insincere in character. Your habit of excusing and justifying yourself is often contrary to your conviction of truth. Every act of this kind is doing much toward forming your character....
...Now, Edson, I wish to speak of the evil of these things in another direction. We are not only distressed beyond measure at the seeming hopelessness of reform in you, but a gloom which I cannot express shrouds our minds in regard to your influence upon Willie. You lead him into habits of disobedience and concealment and prevarication.... You do things and enjoin upon him strict secrecy, and when questioned he evades it by saying, “I don’t know,” when he does know, and thus you lead him to lie in order to keep concealed your cherished, darling projects. This is the most heart-rending of all. You reason and talk and make things appear all smooth to him, when he cannot see through the matter. He adopts your view of it and he is in danger of losing his candor, his frankness.
Oh, Edson, it is the knowledge of these things that is wearing me out and bringing upon me discouragement which will compel me to cease laboring in the cause of God.... Can you see the weighty responsibility which rests upon you? Satan controls your mind and you yield your mind to his control. He knows that it is the surest dart he can aim at us to hinder our labors among God’s people, to so influence your mind that we shall have sorrow and a weight of sadness on your account. Are you willing to bear this responsibility? ...
My dear Edson, you must render an account for the influence you exert. You have been blessed with good instruction and more is expected of you than of boys generally. I do not love to cause you pain, but I dare not withhold from you the light in which I view your case."—Letter 4, 1865, pp. 1-7. (To “My Dear Son Edson,” June 20, 1865.)
This next letter was written to a boy EGW was clearly VERY upset with...
"I arise early this morning—my mind is not at rest in regard to you. In the solemn view presented me a short time since in the night season, your case was shown me. The ledger of heaven was opened, and I read there a record of your life. At a glance I took it in, your weakness, your defects of character. As the eyes of the Judge of all the earth cast one glance at the record and then at you—not a word spoken by Him—your own lips repeated, “Weighed in the balance and found wanting. I have sowed to the flesh; I shall reap corruption.” Your face was as pale as the dead; great drops of perspiration stood upon your forehead; and there, before all the assembled throng, you openly confessed where you first stumbled, where your feet were first directed in the path to perdition. You cast most bitter reflection upon yourself that you had trusted to your own judgment and walked in your own wisdom, rejected the voice of God, despised the warnings and advice of His servants, and with a perseverance and persistency followed your own pernicious ways by which the way of truth was evil spoken of, and souls were lost who might have been saved through your instrumentality.
Much more I might relate in reference to you, but this is enough for the present. I felt so grateful when I came out of vision and found it was not a present reality, that probation still lingered. And now I call upon you to haste and no longer trifle with eternal things.
Now is the time for you to grasp the light; now is the time to work. Pass this period and you are where you cannot break the power of Satan. Do not trifle with the Spirit of God. Do not delay longer to retrace your steps. Your mother is a woman beloved of God. You have despised her counsel and set your heart in stubbornness. But every pang you have caused her to suffer, every tear to shed, every heartbreaking prayer to send up to heaven, will confront you in the day of God unless you fully repent and redeem the past. There is no excuse for you.
...You have signally failed in almost every respect. Now the rest of your life seek to get back what you have lost. There is scarcely the pure thread of gold in your character now left, but you may be winning back in a measurewhat you have lost by your own foolishness and stubbornness in a wrong course.... Let the ledger of heaven give a different record of your course.
God bless you."—Letter 3, 1879, pp. 1-13. (To “Dear Brother Chapin Harris,” August, 1879.)
And... my personal "favorite"... Did you know Joseph was a Christian? The EGW Estate edits her other writings, but not this? She states that he's a Christian THREE times in one short paragraph! Last I knew, Joseph was most definitely an Israelite! The Jewish nation wasn't even established for another 430 years and it was approx. 1,825 years from the life of Joseph to the birth of Christ!
"But Joseph was a Christian. No sooner does he enter upon prison life than he brings all the brightness of his Christian principles into active exercise; he begins to make himself useful to others. He enters into the troubles of his fellow prisoners. He is cheerful, for he is a Christian gentleman. God was preparing him under this discipline for a situation of great responsibility, honor, and usefulness, and he was willing to learn; he took kindly to the lessons the Lord would teach him. He learned to bear the yoke in his youth. He learned to govern by first learning obedience himself. He humbled himself, and the Lord exalted him to special honor."-Letter 3, 1879, pp. 1-13. (To “Dear Brother Chapin Harris,” August, 1879.)
Post Number: 86
|Posted on Monday, November 12, 2012 - 8:51 am: || |
Here's the quote I think you were looking for... It is from a vision that can be found in "Early Writings," pg. 37 in a chapter titled "The Sealing."
"Then I was shown a company who were howling in agony. On their garments was written in large characters, "Thou art weighed in the balance, and found wanting." I asked who this company were. The angel said, "These are they who have once kept the Sabbath and have given it up." I heard them cry with a loud voice, "We have believed in Thy coming, and taught it with energy." And while they were speaking, their eyes would fall upon their garments and see the writing, and then they would wail aloud. I saw that they had drunk of the deep waters, and fouled the residue with their feet--trodden the Sabbath underfoot-- and that was why they were weighed in the balance and found wanting."
Post Number: 94
|Posted on Monday, November 12, 2012 - 1:17 pm: || |
You know, something that seriously bugs me after leaving is this: how can SDAs claim that the health message was straight from God via EGW and yet she was so, so wrong on many basic points of science? How can her position possibly be backed up? Because I don't know the excuse SDAs have for that one.
Post Number: 14092
|Posted on Monday, November 12, 2012 - 3:02 pm: || |
Lyrical, thank you for posting those horrific letters. I completely agree with you. There can be NO doubt about her authenticity after reading those.
Good grief! How manipulative and cruel and shaming. Poor Edson had just about no chance at all to be a confident man, a good husband, or a dad who loved kids. To be sure, I can't blame Ellen and James for his fate--God holds each of us accountable--but those letters remind me that she also wrote that God will hold parents accountable for their children in the judgment if the children are not believers (read that "Adventists").
I think probably that Willie figured out how to ingratiate himself...plus he was the baby. But EGW and James travelled throughout those children's early years and farmed the kids out to people who would keep them for extended periods of time. Those kids (including the ill-fated middle--or was it oldest?-- son who died at 16 from pneumonia) truly grew up in deep darkness. The spiritual darkness surrounding EGW and her visions...that was her legacy to those sons.
I agree, Lyrical. God's mercy is all I can reach for when I read this stuff. I absolutely praise Him for dragging me out of that incredible quagmire of deception and confusion and despair.
Post Number: 8049
|Posted on Tuesday, November 13, 2012 - 11:24 am: || |
When one considers the Adventist legacy handed down, not only to Ellen's children, but from generation to generation and finally down to our generation, it makes it difficult to wrap your mind around it. When I try to look at it, it always comes back to 'Only one way to salavation'.
Probably the shortest sentence that describes this is from Acts 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
It in a nutshell, or as they say, right down to the nitty gritty.
Very simply put, use a different version and it still comes out the same.
Yet when you consider the awful legacy passed down, one can not help but have grief in their heart about it, or at least I can't, yet I do thank God for putting it on my heart. One way. Very simple. Very clear.
I've written 26 stories in fiction, yet I cannot wrap my mind around the complete enormity of this.
And Adventism is only one of the cults.
Post Number: 14097
|Posted on Tuesday, November 13, 2012 - 11:53 am: || |
River, you are right. it's hard to wrap one's mind around the implications of just Adventism...and it's jus ONE of the cults. The numbers of people who have been deeply twisted by distorted gospels (as opposed to having no "gospel pretense" at all) is horrifying.
As our pastor said on Sunday, a distorted gospel results in people going to hell. He said if anyone says one must have the gospel plus Sabbath, the gospel plus good works, the gospel plus keeping the commandments, or the gospel plus food laws, he has a distorted gospel. Amen
Post Number: 2869
|Posted on Tuesday, November 13, 2012 - 3:43 pm: || |
Oh, those poor kids! What a cruel liar Ellen White was to her own kids! Banging them over the head with guilt like that! As if forcing oneself to stay awake and listen to the preacher could save oneself! That's what she's inferring because no-one can force themselves to actually be interested when they're not.
The thing she's leaving out is the thing she leaves out of all of her writings; the fact that salvation is a free gift and the fact that a person needs to be born again to be saved. Instead she's hitting her kids (and the whole Adventist church) with performance based earning of "salvation."