Post Number: 14214
|Posted on Tuesday, January 22, 2013 - 9:06 pm: || |
I had an email today from a friend who said they'd spent a good portion of the weekend defending the fact that Adventists have a Great Controversy-skewed view of Jesus.
They argue vehemently that Jesus was eternally God's son, that the "exaltation" EGW said the Father gave him in eternity past was to be "equal with Himself".
Somehow this "exaltation" is not supposed to imply that Jesus is less than God or that He had once been an angel...it just means...WHAT??
In fact, when Adventists argue that Jesus is eternally God, they are using orthodox words while privately holding unorthodox meanings for those words. Adventists do NOT believe that the Persons of the Trinity are of one substance. They insist that Jesus has eternally forfeited his divine attribute of omnipresence, that He sent the Holy Spirit because He cannot be everywhere at once.
By this belief alone Adventists betray that they are not Trinitarian and that their Jesus is not the Jesus of Scripture. I am going to post below a few revealing quotes from EGW and her husband James.
"The great Creator assembled the heavenly host, that he might in the presence of all the angels confer special honor upon his Son. The Son was seated on the throne with the Father, and the heavenly throng of holy angels was gathered around them. The Father then made know that it was ordained by himself that Christ, his Son, should be equal with himself; so that wherever was the presence of his Son, it was as his own presence. The word of the Son was to be obeyed as readily as the word of the Father.
"Satan thought that he was himself a favorite in Heaven among the angels. He had been highly exalted; but this did not call forth from him gratitude and praise to his Creator. He aspired to the hight of God himself. He gloried in his loftiness. He knew that he was honored by the angels. He had a special mission to execute. He had been near the great Creator, and the ceaseless beams of glorious light enshrouding the eternal God, had shone especially upon him. Satan though how angels had obeyed his command with pleasurable alacrity. Were not his garments light and beautiful? Why should Christ thus be honored before himself?" ("Spirit of Prophecy," volume one, by Ellen White; the second paragraph of the first chapter - about page 17
While some of the angels joined Satan in his rebellion, others reasoned with him to dissuade him from his purpos- es, contending for the honor and wisdom of God in giving authority to his Son. Satan urged, for what reason was Christ endowed with unlimited power and such high command above himself! He stood up proudly, and urged that he should be equal with God. [...] At length all the angels are summoned to appear before the Father, to have each case decided. Satan unblushingly makes known to all the heavenly family, his discontent, that Christ should be preferred before him, to be in such close conference with God, and he be uninformed as to the result of their frequent consultations. God informs Satan that this he can never know. That to his Son will he reveal his secret purposes, and that all the family of Heaven, Satan not excepted, were required to yield implicit obedience. Satan boldly speaks out his rebellion, and points to a large company who think God is unjust in not exalting him to be equal with God, and in not giving him command above Christ. He declares he cannot submit to be under Christ’s command, that God’s commands alone will he obey. (Spiritual Gifts, Vol. 3, P. 37, Par. 2-3
Satan was once an honored angel in heaven, next to Christ.[...] He desired to receive the highest honors in heaven next to God. (Early Writings, p. 145, Par. 1
Jesus was the angel enshrouded in the pillar of cloud by day and the pillar of fire by night. (EGW, Review and Herald, June 17, 1890)
Here are a couple of quotes by James White:
“To assert that the sayings of the Son and his apostles are the commandments of the Father, is as wide from the truth as the old Trinitarian absurdity that Jesus Christ is the very and Eternal God.” (Review and Herald, 1852)
And this from James White's tract, Christ In The Old testament, 1877:
The work of emancipating, instructing and leading the Hebrews was given to the One who is called an angel. Exodus 13:21; 14:19, 24; 23:20-23; 32:34; Numbers 20:16; Isaiah 63:9. And this angel Paul calls “that spiritual Rock that followed them,” and he affirms,“That Rock was Christ” (1 Corinthians 10:4). The eternal Father is never called an angel in the Scriptures, while what angels have done is frequently ascribed to the Lord, as they are his messengers and agents to accomplish his work.
The church was completely founded on a tritheism, not a trinity. In fact, today's confusion about the nature and identity of Jesus is embedded in Adventist theology and in the Great Controversy story and worldview.
For Adventists to argue that they believe Jesus is "fully God" and eternally God's Son is disingenuous. They say the words, but to them, "fully God" means something completely different from His being of the same substance as the Father.
Post Number: 9902
|Posted on Tuesday, January 22, 2013 - 9:50 pm: || |
Thanks Colleen. What you wrote above is exactly what I learned in sda schools.
Post Number: 279
|Posted on Thursday, January 24, 2013 - 3:56 pm: || |
Yes. I learned that same way too. In my recollection as a kid in a SDA school alot more was said about satan than was said about our Lord and Saviour. That is just too far out for me. Occassionally it would seem like a pure evil was permeating the SDA functions. And, EGW herself acknowledged having demons in her bedroom.
Post Number: 867
|Posted on Thursday, January 24, 2013 - 4:33 pm: || |
I cannot help but think that one of those "demons",
was masquerading as an "angel of light !"~
Post Number: 860
|Posted on Thursday, January 24, 2013 - 4:40 pm: || |
I believe there is a very specific reason that Paul said "If we, OR AN ANGEL FROM HEAVEN, preach any other gospel..."
It makes me think of Islam, Mormonism, Adventism, and all the religions that started with an angelic visitation.
Post Number: 288
|Posted on Thursday, January 24, 2013 - 6:10 pm: || |
Yeah, it's as if God knew what was going to happen or something...
Post Number: 14221
|Posted on Thursday, January 24, 2013 - 11:34 pm: || |
I agree. The deconstruction of the person and identity of Jesus and of humanity is evil. It is too tentacled and consistent with all the rest of Adventist doctrine to be the ravings of an addled brain. It's the product of evil.
Post Number: 260
|Posted on Friday, January 25, 2013 - 2:01 pm: || |
It is interesting that Joseph Smith's "heavenly visitors" told him that all the other denominations were wrong...not to join any of them. I think Ellen got the same message from her angelic visitors.
Post Number: 8
|Posted on Friday, January 25, 2013 - 5:53 pm: || |
When I was in the mormon church, the above staement, seems to read like it was taken from the book of mormon. That Jesus and satan were brothers. And Jesus was given favor over satan. Satan was jealous of Jesus and went into rebellion.
The two cults, SDAs and mormonism sure do have similarities.
Post Number: 293
|Posted on Saturday, January 26, 2013 - 3:06 pm: || |
Our plan of salvation was worked out before the Earth was created. God knew what would happen. He knew about the Fall and all that. Everything was planned out.
Christ didn't need to be appointed to any position.
Post Number: 14226
|Posted on Saturday, January 26, 2013 - 11:06 pm: || |
Vjs, you are right. Their stories of Jesus and Lucifer are eerily similar. It's so interesting that Joseph Smith was murdered in 1844, and just weeks later EGW received her first vision. I know...I can't prove anything by this fact, but it's interesting to me!
It's also a matter of public record that Ellen's mother died in the Mormon town Nauvoo, and Ellen's second cousin Anne (I believe it was) became Joseph Smith's sixth wife.
Post Number: 634
|Posted on Sunday, January 27, 2013 - 2:01 pm: || |
Here's a verse I've seen used by SDAs to prove that "exaltation" of Jesus is a biblical concept. (nevermind context)
Philippians 2:9: For this reason God highly exalted Him
and gave Him the name
that is above every name,
Post Number: 14230
|Posted on Sunday, January 27, 2013 - 11:47 pm: || |
Oh, yes--that's true. They do use that! (Uh--nevermind context...)
Post Number: 596
|Posted on Tuesday, January 29, 2013 - 9:25 am: || |
Colleen, it's amazing how much harder it is to read those quotes now than even three years ago. It is disgusting. The further I am from it the more it makes me sick. I cannot believe I ever thought Adventism was Christian. They brainwashed us from the womb.
This week on Apprising Ministries I heard a radio blogger say, "It is not enough to be rooted in the word of God, you must be rooted in it within it's context." No matter how many bible addresses they put in or beside their heretical statements, it doesn't make it right or give weight to their system of beliefs.
Post Number: 14239
|Posted on Tuesday, January 29, 2013 - 3:29 pm: || |
Post Number: 152
|Posted on Thursday, January 31, 2013 - 10:23 am: || |
Vjs, But it has been shown that Ellen White plagiarized most of her writings and it was shown that she even took some of Joseph Smith's writings as well. I believe I saw this info in White's Lies. Colleen, correct me if I have that wrong (the book that is) And she did't even acknowledge any of the writers that she had used extensively from. That was one of the issues back in the 1980s that was brought to the forefront along with th Investigative Judgment.