Post Number: 649
|Posted on Monday, February 11, 2013 - 8:47 am: || |
Very interesting! I really don't follow the Pope, but I do find this interesting considering the climate of Christianity and the world these days. There is a very ecumenical movement well under way and apparently this pope was criticized for not falling in line with making peace with other religions.
"...while conservatives cheered him for trying to reaffirm traditional Catholic identity, his critics accused him of turning back the clock on reforms by nearly half a century and hurting dialogue with Muslims, Jews and other Christians."
I find it very exciting that there is an untimely vacant seat of power in Rome during a great apostasy occurring in the church and prophesy being fulfilled in Israel...
(Message edited by Free2dance on February 11, 2013)
Post Number: 943
|Posted on Monday, February 11, 2013 - 8:58 am: || |
You and me both! Very Exciting Times !
I am wondering if the next Pope elected will be one that is more lenient on
the issues of homosexuality and abortion?
Thus creating an atmosphere that will bring more inclusion to the 'ecumenical movement'?
Stay Tuned! GOD has a 'Plan'! and we are alive to watch it unfold~
Keep your eyes on 'Jerusalem'!
Praying the Prayer that NEVER Fails~
GOD's Will Be Done~
(Message edited by mjcmcook on February 11, 2013)
Post Number: 9923
|Posted on Monday, February 11, 2013 - 8:01 pm: || |
God is in control of everything. Even the Pope. Thank you awesome God.
Post Number: 9
|Posted on Tuesday, February 12, 2013 - 1:02 pm: || |
Other than the Parousia, I do not see any scriptural support for any prophecy beyond AD 70. Contrary to the popular Dispensational/Futurist interpretations, the focus of book of Revelation is not alarmist entertainment. "Pin the tail on the Antichrist" is game that has made Christianity look like fools. Nothing of any future prophetic consequence is going to happen in Jerusalem.
In the second half of Matthew 24, when Jesus was speaking of "that day" (v36 ff, which is referring to the Parousia) it is clear that it will be a time of peace and that you will "not know" when it will happen (a phrase repeated many times in the passage) and you will not expect it.
Post Number: 2830
|Posted on Tuesday, February 12, 2013 - 5:44 pm: || |
Well,for one thing, the return of Jesus Christ certainly is well beyond 70 AD in as much as it hasn't happened yet but will. If not in Jerusalem, just where does anyone expect Jesus to rule from?
Post Number: 654
|Posted on Wednesday, February 13, 2013 - 8:04 am: || |
Jonasaras, I'm not trying to "pin the tail on the antichrist" but I can understand how this thread could trigger that reaction coming out of the religious system we came from. That being said, I absolutely believe that there will be a literal antichrist. I am also aware of the fact that those of us who believe that come across as "fools to the world". Just about everything Christian's believe makes us come across as fools to the world. I am OK with that.
It's true, the nations will say, "peace peace" and they will not see it coming, but we who are wide awake--though we will not know when He is coming-- will not be shocked by it because of prophesy. The book of Revelation is not "alarmist entertainment" to me. It used to freak me out as an Adventist, but no more. I am so grateful for the peace that comes from being Born Again and having the assurance that the Lord Jesus has saved me from the Fathers wrath from now and forevermore. What Revelation is to me now, is the Holy Word of God which is useful for instruction, as is all scripture. The only thing alarming about Revelation is the fact that so many have and ultimately will reject the Lord Jesus.
I couldn't agree with you more about us not knowing when the Lord will return. I don't pretend to know. I hope this thread didn't come across as "date setting" theology.
Post Number: 44
|Posted on Wednesday, February 13, 2013 - 8:47 am: || |
I agree there is or will be a literal antichrist.
John has this to say about that.
2.1 John 2:22
Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist—denying the Father and the Son.
1 John 2:21-23
3.1 John 4:3
but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.
4.2 John 1:7
I say this because many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist.
There are lots of people or groups that might fit that description.
I have even wondered if it is SDA.
Post Number: 655
|Posted on Wednesday, February 13, 2013 - 9:40 am: || |
"I have even wondered if it is SDA."
Capross, I agree, I think the spirit of the antichrist is behind the SDA organization.
Post Number: 14290
|Posted on Wednesday, February 13, 2013 - 6:01 pm: || |
2 Thessalonians also is very clear that the "man of sin" is coming, and a great apostasy will occur that, if it were possible would deceive the very elect. There certainly is still something coming that will exceed anything we expect. Jesus said the last days would be "as the days of Noah". Think about it: Genesis 6 tells us that the "sons of God" married the "daughters of men", and there were giants on the earth. Sin had blossomed to the extent that it threatened the human race, and God judged the world. He sent a flood and eradicated everything on the earth except those 8 people who boarded the ark, and all the animals God sent in.
AD 70 was nothing like that. God has not judged the world to the point of destroying life and recognizable geological features since the flood. But Revelation certainly describes tribulation and destruction that is not merely human. It involves demons and supernatural signs and natural disasters. The earth and a large percentage of life on earth will be destroyed.
"As it was in the days of Noah" tells us something very important. Sin will abound in similar ways and to the extent it did before the flood. God will judge the earth.
Interestingly, Enoch, who lived 300 years and then was not because the Lord took him, was alive during Noah's lifetime pre-flood. God took him before He judged the world. And He protected Noah and his family through the flood so they could fill the earth afterward.
I'm not drawing any conclusions set in concrete, but it is interesting to think about those words: "Just as it was in the days of Noah, so will it be in the days of the Son of Man" (Lk. 17:26).
Post Number: 15
|Posted on Wednesday, February 13, 2013 - 6:58 pm: || |
Philharris asked: "Well,for one thing, the return of Jesus Christ certainly is well beyond 70 AD in as much as it hasn't happened yet but will. If not in Jerusalem, just where does anyone expect Jesus to rule from?"
My response: "Jesus answered, 'My kingdom is not of this world. If my kingdom were of this world, my servants would have been fighting, that I might not be delivered over to the Jews. But my kingdom is not from the world.'" (John 18:36 ESV)
Post Number: 8090
|Posted on Wednesday, February 13, 2013 - 8:18 pm: || |
Capross says; There are lots of people or groups that might fit that description.
I have even wondered if it is SDA.
Do ya think?
The spirit behind SDA ain't ain't Casper the friendly ghost.
Post Number: 10
|Posted on Thursday, February 14, 2013 - 2:26 pm: || |
The context of 2 Thessalonians (see Chpt 1:5-7) is Paul writing the Thessalonian church that is being persecuted and he is promising relief, so an AD 70 fulfillment fits the bill. Also 2:4 indicates that the Jewish Temple was still standing. Again AD 70 fits the bill. The Thessalonians were aware of the "restrainer" of the man of lawlessness (2:6) and Paul indicated that the man of lawlessness was already at work (2:7). Overwhelmingly the evidence points to a contemporary fulfillment, not a future one.
If you're interested in a serious scholar's opinion of the passage you can read this paper:http://www.cmfnow.com/articles/pt550.htm
Post Number: 306
|Posted on Friday, February 15, 2013 - 3:24 pm: || |
Well, i certainly am not a literalist. Having said that it only makes sense to me that "the anti Christ " is anyone, everyone and every institution that denies Jesus as Christ.
Post Number: 16
|Posted on Friday, February 15, 2013 - 6:02 pm: || |
Punababe808, that is correct
Post Number: 806
|Posted on Saturday, February 16, 2013 - 10:58 am: || |
I'm not really following what is happening with the pope but I think we need to adjust our views of Catholics after we leave adventism.
We were brought up to believe that the Catholic church was evil (they changed the Sabbath to Sunday)and that the pope would be the anti-Christ. Just like everything else we learned...it probably ain't so.
I applaud the outgoing pope for not succumbing to the trend to become more ecumenical. I stand up with my Catholic brothers and sisters in Christ, that oppose abortion and homosexuality and that take huge steps to feed and clothe the unfortunate of this world.
The pope and the Catholic church are not the enemy. We should not rejoice when bad things happen to them.
Post Number: 17
|Posted on Saturday, February 16, 2013 - 12:50 pm: || |
Surfy, you couldn't have said it any better. Many former SDA's continue carrying with them many of these false teachings.
We shouldn't forget that there are many other protestant religions supposedly "evangelical" that are teaching a lot of non sense too. Once we leave the false religious system of this world, if we do, everything we were thought needs to be reviewed all over again but with gloves and tweezers.
Post Number: 656
|Posted on Thursday, February 21, 2013 - 7:49 am: || |
Surfy, I just want to clarify, I am no more rejoicing in the pope stepping down than I am in the apostasy of the church or the ecumenical movement. I posted this to state that I am excited about the times we live in.
I do believe that there are doctrines of demons in the Catholic church as there are in many churches who are apostatizing. I also believe there are Christians in the Catholic church, however, I think it is in spite of some of their doctrines. I just had this conversation with two never been SDA apologists during the FAF weekend to see where they stand on it and they were comfortable saying that they are no more Christian (as an organization) than the Adventist organization (they also emphasized that their are Christians in Catholicism). I know the Catholic organization does have many good deeds and takes wonderful stands against the immoral trends in the world and church. I stand with them on those as well. However, this doesn't negate the ways they have been used by the enemy any more than it does in Adventism. We need to be careful that just because we thought something in Adventism we now have to choose to swing to the other side without first examining it. The problem with Adventism, is they mix truth with lies. The issues with the Catholic church has nothing to do with changing Sabbath to Sunday. There are much more heretical issues that cannot be ignored or we are no more helping our Catholic brothers and sisters find freedom in Christ alone than the other Christians around the world who embrace Adventism as orthodox.
I do realize that it would be easy to say that my positions have to do with my having been Adventist, but in fact, it was my study of Daniel with our church a year ago that showed me that Rome absolutely has a role in the end times. I don't know how it will all go down, or who the antichrist is, but Rome has a role and so any shift in their "norm" makes me sit up and look around at all the other signs around us, including what is going on in Israel and the rest of the world.
I also want to say that I recognize that protestant denominations are also walking away from biblical truths. That is why I mentioned above that there is an apostasy moving through Christendom. I am only speaking about Catholics here because of the news of the pope, and because I wanted to clarify my position on this since it appeared to be credited to my having been Adventist.