Post Number: 8086
|Posted on Monday, February 11, 2013 - 2:49 pm: || |
A person said this morning ‘we cannot judge other people's journey. That is also playing God.’
What? When we become a Christian are we commanded to leave our brain at the steps of the church?
In the clatter of todays jargon, not judging has become THE politically correct word to use.
Can’t judge between right and wrong because that’s ‘Their journey’. I guess God forbid if we make a right judgment call and things turn out well!
Well…maybe a better word for it would be, ‘do not condemn’ (or) he that is without sin, let him cast the first stone.
Judge is a 13th century word.
The person that made that statement obviously does not know the bible, because in Corinthians I 6:1 Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unrighteous, and not before the saints?
Corinthians I 6:2 Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world will be judged by you, are you unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
Corinthians I 6:3 Do you not know that we shall judge angels? How much more, things that pertain to this life?
Now that’s heavy, the saints will judge the world and Angels, so we better be getting in a little practice here on judging what is heresy and what’s not.
Post Number: 946
|Posted on Monday, February 11, 2013 - 4:39 pm: || |
I agree with you regarding speaking up and judging 'Heresy'.
However, I think that as far as pointing out 'sin' to another person, it is wise to remember the counsel given in, Matthew 18:15-17. I do realize that these verses (as I understand them) refer primarily to 'believers', but could include "unbelievers" as well.
We are not in this world to 'judge' one another, but to speak up for 'righteousness'.
Philippians 4: 8 comes to mind, whatever does NOT line up with this verse, should be exposed; speaking "Truth" in "Love"~
Post Number: 652
|Posted on Monday, February 11, 2013 - 11:08 pm: || |
I think maybe we miss a significant point in Matthew 7:3-5
"Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, Let me take the speck out of your eye, when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite..."
I think most people stop there and then say, "see, we aren't supposed to judge each other. Don't point out my flaws, or blind spots, I'm on a journey and eventually the Spirit will do that."
But there is more to this verse:
"...first take the log out of your own eye, and THEN YOU WILL SEE CLEARLY TO TAKE THE SPEC OUT OF YOUR BROTHERS EYE."
I think it is true that the Holy Spirit will reveal to us what we need to see. But I think one of the ways He has done that for me is by putting loving people (within His body) in my life who have already examined their own hearts, and can relate to me in ways that make their mentoring seem divinely appointed by God, to help me know what He needs me to know. Perhaps this verse is telling us to be humble, teachable, repentant, and transparent before God so that He can teach us with His Spirit through His word what He needs us to know and then pass on to others--when He summons us. I know that the people God has given me to look to for guidance have done just that. And they have been very impacting in my life because they are real and they understand the difficult process of dealing with "things in our eyes" that make us blind to our self, or our sin, or reality.
I also believe that Christians are obligated to admonish each other in the Lord. That is a part of being in the body of Christ. Accountability. It is a slow fade away from the Lord and I find (for me) that it is usually created by a series of tiny compromises that almost unnoticeabley set my sail on a different course. We need each other to help us remember to take courage in the promises of the Lord and to love and value His word as our source for truth and instruction. I am relying on my brothers and sisters to love me enough to help me see, with God's word, when I am erring.
Post Number: 8087
|Posted on Tuesday, February 12, 2013 - 6:46 am: || |
I wasn’t speaking of Christians whose heart is tender toward God with a desire to follow his word in obedience.
What I was speaking of is the liberal ‘vein’ that seems to be working its way through this country, and working its way into the church.
If you are a Catholic and are involved in Mary worship, then that is your ‘Journey’ and if you dare say anything then you are playing God and judging.
If you are a Muslim and are involved in Allah worship, then that is your ‘Journey’ and if we dare say anything then you are playing God and judging.
Just giving a couple examples, not by any means all of the example I might give.
It’s the same liberal thinking that is flowing through this country in the political realm.
The “‘we cannot judge other people's journey. That is also playing God.” Attitude is effectively meant to throttle down Christians who do speak the word of truth in love of another’s welfare.
As free2dance effectively pointed out, those who quote part of a scripture and leave out the rest until scripture intended for our welfare becomes just another tired cliché.
Then, in effect, we begin to live by clichés rather than whole scripture and in fact, disagree with or ignore scripture when it becomes convenient to do so.
I really doubt if the person that made the statement knew about the scripture I pointed out earlier.
A person asked the question with this, “Just wondering, why Angels would need judging?”
My answer was, “I don’t know I didn’t write the Bible.” But friends, we can’t take it out of the Bible and ignore it. It really places a weight on our shoulders as Christians to adhere to Gods word in our Christianity and to be careful of words that have become clichés in this dangerous time we live in.
The first thing I thought when I discovered that scripture years ago was, “Oh God, I don’t want to be the judge of men and Angels, I am not fit to be their judge.”
There again, this really speaks of God’s unfathomable mercy and grace to an undeserving people. What grace! What mercy and love he has bestowed upon us.
Paul says, ‘Corinthians I 6:2 Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world will be judged by you, are you unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
Corinthians I 6:3 Do you not know that we shall judge angels? How much more, things that pertain to this life?
Apparently Paul knew the future of Christians better than the most of us, and that includes me.
Catholics have prayers to dead saints (Or) what they deem as saints. I got news for you, the only difference between a live saint and a dead saint is that the one died and the other is still alive, and if you are saved and alive, you are a live saint, so if God have given us the coat, then we might as well get used to wearing it, and not let clichés rule us as we speak.
I think the truth is, with some of us, we don't want the job, we just want the pay.
Post Number: 653
|Posted on Tuesday, February 12, 2013 - 8:37 am: || |
Well said, River. The first time I read that scripture I had the same reaction. It also became a pet-peeve of mine when I would hear people use God to say that we cannot Judge. I think when that is done in a cliched way it is just another form of taking His name in vain. God will not be mocked. Quoting God's word to appear "as right as God" is an old trick from Eden.
You know, just last week someone told me to "let God be the judge" of that domestic terrorist who is running around CA killing cops. They didn't say this because I said he was going to hell (I never even implied that) they told me this because I said what he was doing was evil. They were talking about him like he was some kind of hero because he was pointing out the errors of the LAPD with a strong "statement". Meanwhile I can't stop thinking of the young engaged couple sitting in a pool of their own blood in a parking structure because her daddy was a cop.
"...it [love] does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth." 1 Corinthians 13:6
Sigh... Not in our country where child molesters get too many chances and not enough consequences, baby deliveries are "optional", homosexuality is a "genetically determined preference",'god' is whatever you need it to be just keep it to yourself if your God is the one true God, sex is all over the TV and freeway signs, zombies and vampires are hailed as hero's, witchcraft is the entertainment of choice for kids, our nation's leaders pray for the "spirits of our ancestors to lead us forward...in the name of 'jesus' AND all who are holy...", and the most "creative" and "loved" musicians are the darkest, sleaziest, immoral people on stage.
Here is how I understand the issue:
Worlds definition of judge= to sentence or condemn
My understanding of Christians judging in the Bible context= to discern what is true and then bring it to light. This isn't about sentencing. It is about revealing and warning. There is a huge difference. And from what I understand, we are to primarily do this within the body. Outside of the body, it is the gospel they need, not moral correction.
What is interesting, is that people who say we are not to judge tend to make the loudest judgement calls about Christians who take God's word seriously. And at the end of the day, if a person calls them self a Christian, than they have given permission to the Body to show them God's word of correction IN SCRIPTURE when needed. That is my opinion...though it's open to correction (with God's word) ;).
(Message edited by Free2dance on February 12, 2013)
Post Number: 2030
|Posted on Tuesday, February 12, 2013 - 6:38 pm: || |
Free2dance, I was going to copy and paste a part of your post along with the statement that "I totally agree" Then I went back and read it again and realized I would have to copy and paste the whole thing. ;)
I have recently (well for a few months now) been dealing with someone on FB who has become VERY adamant that "Christians" are misunderstanding 'homosexuality'. It does absolutely no good to point out scripture to this person, because there is always an "excuse" for why it does not apply to their situation. It is very frustrating
I hate to give up on this person,,, my heart hurts and stomach turns to knots when trying to reason Biblically. This person wants so badly to believe that it is "ok" Not only ok, but OK to the point of being "blessed" by God. (sigh)
River, I don't know if you remember, but I was the one who asked the question on FB 'Why would Angels need to be judged ?' Not because I don't believe it, because I certainly DO. But believing it does not prevent me from wondering why..... I have always believed "Angels" to be without sin. I am now wondering if maybe that text could be referring to the "fallen Angels" that followed Satan(?) That's the only way it makes sense to me at this point.
Post Number: 42
|Posted on Wednesday, February 13, 2013 - 5:15 am: || |
At Grace and Hope Mission in Baltimore Md I am privileged to minister to many people with a wide variety of problem behaviors. I do not preach to them about their individual sins because I can do nothing to fix them. I am willing to bet that each person knows his/her personal demons much more intimately than I do. What I do preach is that if the person is tired of the pain their life choices cause that I know someone who can fix it.
My observation is that they keep coming back and they do change. The scripture says that the Holy Spirit convicts of sin. I just try to lead them to the Holy Spirit.
Post Number: 43
|Posted on Wednesday, February 13, 2013 - 5:17 am: || |
You do not get good to go to God
You go to God to get good.
Post Number: 8088
|Posted on Wednesday, February 13, 2013 - 9:30 am: || |
Didn't prevent me from wondering all these years either Skeeter.
Of course I didn't think you were questioning the Bible as I know you better than that.
I wasn't answering to be smart. I just don't have a clue. Straight answer.
Apparently things were revealed to Paul that leaves us guessing. When he said, Don't you know? As if we should be expected to know those things.
I first read it about 40 years ago, and I still don't have any more knowledge about his statement than I did then.
Your point is a good one. My point in using that is that it is in the Bible, not that you would be wondering why we would be judging Angels.
Post Number: 8089
|Posted on Wednesday, February 13, 2013 - 10:01 am: || |
Lets just look at the problem Skeeter described a moment.
I feel the person Skeeter mentioned is speaking to the problem from out of the emotions, and not from scripture.
The same with the person who said, "‘we cannot judge other people's journey. That is also playing God.’
Speaking and believing what is right out of emotions is sometimes a problem. That can lead to us disrespecting the Bible for how it reads.
Sure, I like the emotions part, the feel good part, but my emotions have no bearing on what God has told us in his word.
Just like I said I didn't want to be anybody's judge. Emotionally I have never wanted to come to the conclusion my Adventist friends were so wrong, even to the point if heresy. Why? Because I loved them to put it simply, or in the least, I was very fond of each and every person.
Emotionally I didn't want to face the fact of what God was plainly telling me by his Holy Spirit and through his word about them, it's disturbing, saddening, so I know exactly how Skeeter feels.
The Bible has things I didn't want to face emotionally.
The question is, are we to be ruled by our emotions rather than Gods word?