| Author | Message | ||
| Cazperth Registered user Username: Cazperth Post Number: 7 Registered: 4-2013 |
I am curious where FAF members stand on Creationism. Do you tend towards a literal 6 days or a "long creation" that allows for Genesis to be an allegorical explanation? | ||
| Philharris Registered user Username: Philharris Post Number: 2858 Registered: 5-2007  |
We have a wide range of views on this topic and that is ok as long as each of us know that God, in the person of Jesus Christ, is our Creator who created all things. As for me, I believe in six literal days of creation. Others here on the forum and within the world of orthodox Christianity hold with various other views. Conformity here isn't needed for us to love and support each other in our walk with the Lord. Fearless Phil | ||
| Helovesme2 Registered user Username: Helovesme2 Post Number: 3021 Registered: 8-2004  |
Yep, Phil about covered it! I tend toward 'old earth' Creationism, but am not dogmatic about it. And I don't see Genesis as allegory. | ||
| Mjcmcook Registered user Username: Mjcmcook Post Number: 1052 Registered: 2-2011  |
Phil~ Thank-you for your post! "Creationism" has been discussed here on the Forum and for sure there are several differing beliefs! I believe all are held by people who love "Creator GOD"! Your reminder that conformity..."isn't needed for us to love and support each other in our walk with the Lord.." is wise counsel. ~mj~ | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 3046 Registered: 7-2007 |
I'm quite dogmatic that God created everything on the earth in 6 literal days, but I recognize that that isn't a salvation issue. People are saved by believing on Jesus and His finished work!  | ||
| Doc Registered user Username: Doc Post Number: 741 Registered: 2-2003  |
I go for the literal six days and a recent Adam and Eve. The problem with long ages is that you end up with death before sin, which is a real theological problem. We could argue... Incidentally, I have a doctorate in chemistry and I also have a Bible College degree, so I have a certain background in both theology and natural science. The more I study the issue, the most I see that there is no conflict between the facts of science and Bible. The interpretation is where the differences lie. Adrian | ||
| Sharon3 Registered user Username: Sharon3 Post Number: 173 Registered: 2-2010 |
I read a book by Hugh Ross (leading Christian on Old Earth theory) and studied into it a bit because I wondered if it was yet another thing I had to relearn. When I got to all the animals dieing over trillions of years before Adam to make top soil, I put on the breaks. He says the atmosphere cleared making the sun, moon, & stars visible on the 4th day. But the Bible says God created them on the 4th day. In reading the Old Testament lately a day always meant a 24 hours perod of time. It was never interpreted as "ages of time". I remain a literal 6 days of creationist at this time. The Creation Society has a neat film on Mt St Helens that shows how things can happen very quickly and look like it took long periods of time. I'm glad it's not a salvation issue because many of my Christian friends believe in the Old Earth theory, and I can't know for certain. I sometimes wonder if as formers we were so indoctrinated in the literal days that we can't see the other. As Adventists they have to be literal days or what would they do with the Sabbath? | ||
| Jonasaras Registered user Username: Jonasaras Post Number: 15 Registered: 9-2012 |
Old earth creationism does not have a theological issue with death before sin. Long before Adam's sin there was this guy with horns... One has to read those passages (Romans 5, etc) very carefully to determine what they really are saying. | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 3048 Registered: 7-2007 |
Romans 5 is a chapter that SDAs don't seem to notice. It says that death came through one man, Adam and life through Jesus. What I'm saying is that sin comes through the father, therefore Jesus could not have had a sin nature! Also notice 1st Corinthians 15:21-22; "For as by a man came death, by a man has come also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive." Jonasaras: "...guy with horns..."? If by that, you mean Satan.... well, unfortunately, he's alive and well on planet Earth... | ||
| Sharon3 Registered user Username: Sharon3 Post Number: 176 Registered: 2-2010 |
Old Earth theory says that Romans text is about man's death bringing death to all mankind. Death of animals over the trillion of years doesn't apply here. I thought Adam's sin brought death to animals, plants and man. I thought the whole Earth was made "good" not just Eden. These understandings are not that of Old Earth. I'm still resolving this. If anyone has any help with this I'm open. | ||
| Jonasaras Registered user Username: Jonasaras Post Number: 16 Registered: 9-2012 |
@Sharon. Where does the Bible say that Adam's sin caused death in the plant or animal kingdom? That's an EGW-fueled pressuposition. The fact that God declared creation as "good" does not nexessarily logically mutually exclude dead plants. | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 3052 Registered: 7-2007 |
At every stage of creation, God said that what He created at every stage - light, firmament, animals, etc. was VERY good. | ||
| Doc Registered user Username: Doc Post Number: 742 Registered: 2-2003 |
Hi Sharon, There is loads of material available on the web about the creation issue. As a young earth creationist, and a scientist, I would recommend the creation magazine live materials, e.g. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GNmaB-zFW4 or if you prefer an amusing, tongue in cheek approach, try wazooloo, e.g. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbwybyqAr5g And there is also Origins, e.g. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCYJVhEvhL0&list=PLF7102CFE1A6F5055 and related stuff on the slaves4christ channel. Those and related links should keep you occupied for a few months :-) Adrian | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 3053 Registered: 7-2007 |
I must have been writing this while the previous person was writing A passage that talks about the creation "groaning" is Romans 8:18-22. Jeremiah 12:4 is another place: "How long will the land mourn and the grass of every field wither? For the evil of those who dwell in it the beasts and the birds are swept away, because they said, “He will not see our latter end.” Anyway, that's a couple that I found. There may be other places where the Bible talks about that. When Jesus takes us home, everything will be restored. It talks about the lion lying down with the lamb and that nothing will hurt or destroy and that all tears will be wiped from our eyes. Last week a co-worker had to put her cat down. She was out three days grieving. | ||
| Sharon3 Registered user Username: Sharon3 Post Number: 177 Registered: 2-2010 |
Jonasaras. It doesn't say Adam's sin caused death of animals or plants. I just assumed everything was perfect and no death anywhere before Adam. Thorns, thistles, weeds were a result of sin. HMM maybe those thoughts stem from ellen. That's why when Old Earth says there was trillions of years of death of animals and plants to create top soil, I couldn't go there. Asurprise: Isn't this "groaning" and "withing grass" talking about after Adam sinned? Adrian: Thanks for the links, I will study them and pursue this further. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 14373 Registered: 12-2003  |
Sharon, yes. Romans 8:18-23 explains that God subjected creation to decay...and that subjection happened when He cursed the earth after Adam's sin in Genesis 3:17-19. Colleen | ||
| Sharon3 Registered user Username: Sharon3 Post Number: 178 Registered: 2-2010 |
I assume that means there was no decay or death of animals prior to Adam? If so, then that would not support Hugh Ross's explanation of death of animals over trillions of years. I can see it's been hard for people to understand what I am asking. This has been confusing to me. | ||
| Jonasaras Registered user Username: Jonasaras Post Number: 17 Registered: 9-2012 |
Those passages are not problematic for old earth creationists. The appearance of Adam (which means "humanity") caused widedpread ecological damage. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 14375 Registered: 12-2003 |
Sharon, I think I understand. There are a lot of details we just aren't told, but the Scriptures don't suggest that there was death and decay before Adam's sin. The ground was cursed after his sin, according to Gen 3. Jonasaras, I don't think we can conclude that the appearance of humanity caused the widespread ecological damage. Scripture suggests that it was sin and God's consequent curse of the earth and His putting the earth into the bondage of decay that resulted in deconstruction on earth. Man was created to tend the earth, to subdue and fill it. He was given authority to care for the earth. Sin is what severed that responsible connection between man and his environment. Colleen | ||
| Jonasaras Registered user Username: Jonasaras Post Number: 18 Registered: 9-2012 |
Colleen, I understand your view from a purely Biblical perspective, but putting theology aside, the scientific evidence that ecological damage/massive change occurred after the arrival of man is undeniable. How many plants and animals have become extinct? Lots! I believe that God wants to be found through nature as well as His word (that's not a EGW-ism, BTW). The problem with denying serious science is that you are in effect saying that God intentionally left physical evidence to lead people off track. |
