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Free2dance
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Username: Free2dance

Post Number: 693
Registered: 2-2010
Posted on Wednesday, May 08, 2013 - 1:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Someone posted this in a closed former Adventist support group on FB. I thought it was interesting. I wanted to post it here in case we have any SDA lurkers who would be interested in this.

"About 30 years ago (yes, SIGH, I am that old), I worked for the Siskin Foundation in Chattanooga, Tn. It is a Jewish social service agency. A wonderful rabbi was the director and we had great conversations. One conversation that I will never forget was very frank; yet without hostility. "You know, Margie," he said, "Many Jews harbor ill feelings toward members of the SDA church." He went on, "This SDA belief system wants to keep OUR (Jews) covenant that God gave to US at Mt Sinai instead of their own covenant given by THEIR God, Jesus Christ. (And he quoted Hebrews to me!). Therefore, these Jews feel that SDA's are trying to join a party to which they were never and have never been invited!" He went on to say, why don't SDA's KNOW that their God's, Jesus Christ, gave them their own commandments to keep...so why are they trying to keep ours?!" I was dumbfounded! Years later, that same conversation came back to haunt me when I discovered the NEW Covenant message in the Bible! This dear, Rabbi dead now.....told me the truth and I never got to thank him."
Colleentinker
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Username: Colleentinker

Post Number: 14419
Registered: 12-2003


Posted on Wednesday, May 08, 2013 - 2:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

How interesting! He did know, didn't he? (And he also didn't know...that Jesus Christ was his God, too...)

Colleen
Cazperth
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Username: Cazperth

Post Number: 19
Registered: 4-2013
Posted on Friday, May 10, 2013 - 3:29 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I was wondering how, as a gentile, I am supposed to be roped into the Jewish covenants. SDAs seem to look backwards instead of forwards and I guess that comes from their false prophet adding to the NT.

It seems clear to me that God made OT covenants with His people as part of the long term plan to bring the Messiah into the world at exactly the right time. Since the Resurrection, His word is to be spread to Gentiles and without "the yoke" of the law.

My SDA friends say that dietary law and Sabbath were never specifically repealed by Jesus because he also observed Sabbath. I know he kept Sabbath because he was raised as an observant Jew. However, I am curious about the diet thing since Jesus also said God does not care what passes through your body but He cares about what is spoken by your tongue. Is there anything in NT that talks about kosher laws and which ones should be kept and which should not? I'm wondering if the dietary aspect is covered for SDA by the call to vegetarianism (humans got diseases and shorter lives by beginning to eat meat), thus avoiding finding support from the NT for kosher laws. Even so, my SDA friends have no problem occasionally eating a burger king whopper(definitely NOT kosher) but won't have bacon on it. Meat is ok, sometimes, but it must never be pork???

When I contemplated becoming an SDA it was difficult to reconcile being told I "should only follow the bible" with rules that I could find no evidence for - unless I took scripture out of context!

If I've missed something Jesus told me about eating bacon I'd love to know so I don't continue to sin.

Acts 15: 8-11 " God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. 9 He did not discriminate between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. 10 Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear? 11 No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are."

In Grace and Love

Caz
Chris
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Username: Chris

Post Number: 1756
Registered: 7-2003


Posted on Friday, May 10, 2013 - 6:42 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My sister tells a story about her attempt to talk with an orthodox Jewish man while she was visiting Israel. The conversation was a little unusual because orthodox Jewish men usually avoid speaking with women, but this one seemed open to polite conversation. Wanting to share what she thought was something they had in common, my then SDA sister identified herself as a Sabbath Keeper. She said the man just looked at her oddly for a long time then said, "But you are a Gentile. Don't you know that Shabbat is not for you?" He was somewhere between amused and offended by her claim to be a Sabbath Keeper.
Sharon3
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Username: Sharon3

Post Number: 192
Registered: 2-2010
Posted on Friday, May 10, 2013 - 10:48 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Very interest information. Thanks for posting.
Asurprise
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Username: Asurprise

Post Number: 3086
Registered: 7-2007
Posted on Friday, May 10, 2013 - 12:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Caz; first Noah and his sons were told they could eat "every moving thing that lives." Genesis 9:3

Second; Israel was told to not eat "unclean" meats because God was "separating" them from the Gentiles. "I am the Lord your God, Who has separated you from the peoples. You shall therefore separate the clean beast from the unclean..." Leviticus 20:23-26

Third; when Jesus rose from the dead, He brought in a whole New Covenant:

"For where a will is involved, the death of the one who made it must be established. For a will takes effect only at death, since it is not in force as long as the one who made it is alive." Hebrews 9:16-17 (When you read the verses around this, you can see clearly that it's talking about the New Covenant.)

Fourth; Peter was told that God had "cleansed" the Gentiles in Acts 10. (Curious how God used "unclean" animals to represent "unclean" people that He had cleansed!)

Also Gentiles were never given the law. Romans 2:14

Notice how Moses told Israel that the Covenant given from Sinai was given to them, themselves and not to their forefathers - Deut. 5:2-3. (That Covenant was spelled out in Deut. 4:13 "And He declared to you His covenant, which He commanded you to perform, that is, the Ten Commandments, and He wrote them on two tablets of stone."

And that Covenant became obsolete when the New one came into effect. Hebrews 8:13

And as far as food, drink and Sabbaths were concerned, Jesus fulfilled them. Colossians 2:16-17

It's the SDAs who are taking the Bible out of context!
Colleentinker
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Username: Colleentinker

Post Number: 14423
Registered: 12-2003


Posted on Monday, May 13, 2013 - 5:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

As an Adventist, I used to react to the idea that Gentiles were never given the law as if it were a ridiculous argument based on lack of biblical knowledge and discernment.

I believed I was part of "spiritual Israel", so of course the principles and requirements of the Law were for me. I considered it unbelievably simplistic to think people could argue that the Law wasn't for gentiles. I was taught that if something was good for one people group, it was good for another. If God said things to Israel, I could assume those words were for me as well.

Sigh.

Colleen
Flyinglady
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Username: Flyinglady

Post Number: 10004
Registered: 3-2004


Posted on Monday, May 13, 2013 - 5:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yeah Colleen, I was taught the same thing. As a result of that teaching I quit reading the Bible. I did not want to know what happened to the CoI when they disobeyed God. I was taught if I did not know, I would not be held accountable.
Awesome God taught me different than any sda teaching I ever had.
Diana
Grace_alone
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Username: Grace_alone

Post Number: 2136
Registered: 6-2006


Posted on Wednesday, May 15, 2013 - 2:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Diana, you just made an interesting point. If a person is going to try and take ownership of the covenant or Law of the CoI, then one would think they would also be subject to the same consequences set for the CoI.

I still don't understand why not follow all the other commands, especially passover. That's HUGE to the Jews, and Jesus observed it.

Lots of picking and choosing and making up of rules, I think.

Leigh Anne
Wiredog
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Username: Wiredog

Post Number: 323
Registered: 8-2010


Posted on Sunday, May 26, 2013 - 10:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I am late to this dance, but to add a few words too. When I was exiting the SDA coven I had a Messianic Jew as a tenant in my rental property. She was surprised to see how concerned I was that I did not do things to violate her Shabbat. I explained to her that I was Seventh-Day Adventist and I too observed the Sabbath. She was clear to me when she said, yes we know about Seventh-Day Adventists. You should know you are wrong in your understanding of Shabbat and in your doctrines.

This prompted me to ask the Orthodox Rabbi and a "main-stream" Rabbi about the Sabbath and the scapegoat in Leviticus. Both Rabbis told me that the Shabbat was not for me it is only for God's people. In fact it was wrong for me to participate in their services and I believe the Orthodox Rabbi wanted to know what business and interest was it of mine to even want to observe their services. It is not as if they are intended to be mere spectacles for the public.

Additionally and most striking to me was the fact that all 3 Rabbis quickly and succinctly said the interpretation of the Scapegoat being Satan was completely off base. To the Jews, the scapegoat was to also represent the Messiah who was, (or in the case of the Messianic Rabbi) had come already.

Now if you recall that as SDAs we always pointed to the Jews as a group of people who OBVIOUSLY knew when the Sabbath was--so I figured that if as SDAs we trusted them enough to know about the Sabbath ritual why not trust them to also be correct about the Day of Atonement Service.

(Message edited by wiredog on May 26, 2013)
Colleentinker
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Username: Colleentinker

Post Number: 14448
Registered: 12-2003


Posted on Monday, May 27, 2013 - 11:40 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ben, that is such a good point! Jews, even in their unbelief, understand what those ceremonies and symbols are about. They KNOW the Sabbath is about the Messiah, and also the Day of Atonement and all its symbols, including the scapegoat.

It really upsets me that Adventism will cheerfully refer to the Jews as support for their views, and even refer to Catholics to support their views (as in the Catholics changed the Sabbath to Sunday), when they disbelieve both the Jewish position and the Catholic dogma. The shamelessly USE the people they believe they have replaced or exposed as frauds.

Their illegitimate use of the Law for themselves is derived from their brand or replacement theology. Even in Christian circles (most notably some Reformed denominations and also Catholics and Orthodox Christians), replacement theology distorts the law and the new covenant...and it distorts prophecy and the promises of God.

No one has replaced the Jews. We have been grafted into God's olive tree, but neither Christians nor SDAs no CAtholics, etc., have replaced Israel. God's promises cannot be broken (Romans 9 through 11).

Colleen
Adiusa
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Username: Adiusa

Post Number: 19
Registered: 4-2012
Posted on Wednesday, May 29, 2013 - 6:43 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

From my understanding of what I read on Jewish websites, The Gentiles were saved by observing the Noahitic covenant, thus salvation outside of their religion IS available. That is why they don't 'evangelize' and have this thing at ones conversion when the rabbi needs to make 3 vigorous attempts to fend off the candidate.
However these things are not taken at face value when presenting them to an SDA, since the jews are apostate and were wrong about Jesus, they are wrong in these assumptions as well. Go figure. When something goes against SDA theology, you get to pick and choose what is true...
Punababe808
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Username: Punababe808

Post Number: 452
Registered: 4-2012
Posted on Wednesday, May 29, 2013 - 1:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Adiusa, welcome. And, yes, having numerous neighbors, friends and kin who are Jewish you have the same.understanding I was taught.

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