| Author | Message | ||
| Free2dance Registered user Username: Free2dance Post Number: 704 Registered: 2-2010 |
I have not read this yet. I have listened to parts that were read to me and have listened to discussions from others who have read it. I thought it would be worth sharing on here if some of you haven't seen it yet. It is long, but it is something else... http://www.scribd.com/doc/160731861/The-Wisdom-of-Solomon-or-The-Politics-of-Pragmatism-The-General-Conference-Abortion-Decision-1970-71 | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 14565 Registered: 12-2003  |
Oh, Free, this is an absolutely startling article. It shows that since 1971, Adventist hospitals and doctors have had one set of guidelines for abortions, and the SDA membership at large was told they had another. In 1970 the SDA church published guidelines that allowed abortion in cases of rape, danger to the mother's life, and the possibility of severe deformity or mental retardation of the baby. The 1971 (secret) guidelines gave doctors and hospitals permission to do abortions on demand. This "on demand" has been the position of at least 12 SDA hospitals since 1971, and the only reason other of the 52 total SDA hospitals in the USA are not confirmed is that the data and research has not been collected. The hospitals that have been doing abortions on demand since 1971 include LLU Med Center, Portland Adventist Hospital, Washington Hospital, Castle Memorial Hospital in Honolulu, Walla Walla General Hospital, Porter Memorial in Denver, and others. And please note: these SDA hospitals were doing abortions on demand at least one year BEFORE Roe v Wade! This article is amazing...it names names and gives dates. He names the doctors and SDA administrators who were actively involved in creating these guidelines. Neal Wilson (father of current GC president Ted Wilson) was a key figure in liberalizing the 1971 statement. Jack Provonsha, R.R. Bietz, etc etc were instrumental in creating the wording and principles for this document. I urge you to read it if you haven't. Colleen | ||
| Bskillet Registered user Username: Bskillet Post Number: 1029 Registered: 8-2008 |
I listened to a sermon in which Dr. R.C. Sproul commented on our society (I paraphrase from memory), "Jesus did not know a world where tiny fish were protected and unborn babies were murdered." It reminds me of SDAism and abortion: If human life is only body + breath, and you have a fetus that 1) doesn't have a fully formed body, and 2) has never taken a breath, then it follows that killing said fetus is morally superior even to killing and eating a chicken. Thus SDAs are vegetarians, but pro-choice. SDAism believes God has a physical body, a heresy to Christians. As such, they take the idea that we're made in God's image in a literal, physical sense. It follows that if a baby has not yet been fully formed, it isn't in God's image. | ||
| Mjcmcook Registered user Username: Mjcmcook Post Number: 1193 Registered: 2-2011  |
Bskillet~ I appreciate your insightful comments in your post #1029! Thank-you~ ~mj~ | ||
| Philharris Registered user Username: Philharris Post Number: 2907 Registered: 5-2007  |
The heresy surrounds understanding that 'image' is simply what is seen in a mirror. What is seen in a mirror is not the reality of God. In-other-words, we as (at creation) were never the reality of who God is and even less so after the fall of Adam and Eve. Therefore, just because we have a physical body doesn’t mean God, who is the reality, also has a physical body any more than the image of a mirror produces a reality of God in physical form. Fearless Phil | ||
| Punababe808 Registered user Username: Punababe808 Post Number: 550 Registered: 4-2012 |
I read the entire article and what I concluded is it comes down to money. One man contributed oodles of money to the hospital so when his 15 year old got pregnant he expected the hospital to get her unpregnant so they did. Also, I'll look up the text but Bibically God the Father is spirit. Jesus is/was God in flesh and the Holy Spirit is Gods Spirit bestowed upon us , this The Trinity which SDA's also deny. I may have worded it incorrectly but I know what I mean | ||
| River Registered user Username: River Post Number: 8137 Registered: 9-2006  |
Quote: If human life is only body + breath, and you have a fetus that 1) doesn't have a fully formed body, and 2) has never taken a breath, then it follows that killing said fetus is morally superior even to killing and eating a chicken. Thanks Bskillit for helping me to understand how they view that. Sometimes as a never been this stuff just seems so...out there...its hard to wrap my mind around it. | ||
| Punababe808 Registered user Username: Punababe808 Post Number: 551 Registered: 4-2012 |
The article mentions Sierra Vista Hospital. Does anyone know where this hospital is? There is a Sierra Vista Hospital in San Luis Obispo, CA. I looked up to find out if it's SDA owned but only got a list of the board of directors. Someone please tell me. River, personally I think chicken is really foul. | ||
| Mjcmcook Registered user Username: Mjcmcook Post Number: 1194 Registered: 2-2011 |
River~ Once again, I see more clearly why adventists can act with seeming impunity when it comes to the procedure of abortion. (killing a baby in the womb). Corporately and individually, "egw" is relied upon for "truth" rather than the plain literal teaching found in Scripture~ In John chapter 3 verses 19-21 it says the following: " The (basis of the) judgment (indictment, the test by which men are judged, the ground for the sentence) lies in this: the 'LIGHT'(CHRIST) has come into the world, and the people have loved the darkness rather than and more than the 'LIGHT' for their works (deeds) were evil. [Isa.5;20]. For every wrongdoer hates (loathes, detests,) the 'Light', and will not come out into the 'Light' but shrinks from it, lest his works (his deeds, his activities, his conduct) be exposed and reproved. But he who practices truth(who does what is right- comes out into the 'Light'; so that his works may be plainly shown to be what they are - wrought with GOD (divinely prompted, done with GOD's help, in dependence upon Him). Amplified Translation ~ I know that I was not taught to rely on Scripture and Scripture only growing up as an adventist. I had not ever read Psalm 139 where it teaches that humankind in the womb, "days [of my life] were written before ever they took shape, when as yet there was none of them." [verse 16]. Amplified Translation ~ satan has an agenda! we all would do well to remember~ he HATES humankind! and is set on destroying us any way he can. It is beyond comprehending that anyone is his accomplice in this agenda, by the acceptance of abortion! There are things that may be 'lawful' in this country, but that does not make them 'moral' ! To me, it is a fearful thing to put 'darkness' (adventist teaching) above GOD Almighty (LIGHT)! May GOD have Mercy~ ~mj~ (Message edited by mjcmcook on August 23, 2013) | ||
| Mjcmcook Registered user Username: Mjcmcook Post Number: 1195 Registered: 2-2011 |
One more thing ! For women that have chosen to have an abortion~there is healing and forgiveness~ " To HIM [CHRIST] all the prophets testify (bear witness) that everyone who believes in HIM (who adheres to, trusts in, and relies on HIM, giving himself up to HIM) receives forgiveness of sins through HIS name." Acts 10:43. Amplified Translation. This being said, women need to 'Forgive' themselves! ~mj~ | ||
| Butterfly_poette Registered user Username: Butterfly_poette Post Number: 345 Registered: 5-2011  |
I do wish SDAs were more against abortion. SDAs wouldn't be at any pro-life rallies. They figure that the world can only get worse until Jesus comes, so no use to save babies. |
