| Author | Message | ||
| Mainexile Registered user Username: Mainexile Post Number: 144 Registered: 6-2008  |
This is an excerpt of an article by James White. I'm interested in everyone's comments on this interpretation of scripture about Sabbath being the Seal of God. "....do you believe there is salvation in the Sabbath? Answer. We do not believe there is salvation in the Sabbath, any more than in the other nine commandments. Salvation comes through Jesus Christ our Lord. Let me, reader, ask you a question. Do you believe that we can have salvation through Jesus, while violating all or either of the other nine commandments? You answer no. Neither can you have salvation through Jesus, if you reject the clear light of the Holy Sabbath. The Sabbath is the seal, and the Holy Spirit is the sealer. 'After ye believed ye were sealed with the Holy Spirit.' Eph.ii,13. 'And grieve not the Holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.' Eph.iv,30. W." {September 1850 JWe, ADRE 57.5} | ||
| Philharris Registered user Username: Philharris Post Number: 2973 Registered: 5-2007  |
This is classic double talk from a very confused mind. Jesus is the Giver of the Seal of our salvation:
The Holy Spirit is the Seal of our salvation:
By the works of the law (any law) will no man be justified:
The works of Jesus Christ (at Calvary) is the source and author of our salvation:
We receive salvation through faith as told to the Philippian Jailer:
Salvation is the work of Jesus Christ which includes nothing we do. Fearless Phil | ||
| Honestwitness Registered user Username: Honestwitness Post Number: 1254 Registered: 7-2005  |
"Do you believe that we can have salvation through Jesus, while violating any or either of the other nine? You answer no." Is this what is referred to as a "straw man" argument? The implication is that no one who is currently violating any commandment is eligible for salvation. The flip side of this concept is that, when one is not currently violating any commandment, he/she IS eligible for salvation. This takes away from Jesus the power and the right to grant salvation and gives that power, instead, to the human will. That is "will worship" or the worship (worth-ship) of the human will. This is the foundation of all Adventist doctrine. On the surface, it sounds like righteousness, but at it's heart, this doctrine nullifies the grace of God. I was in the SDA church for 16 years and tried to embracethis doctrine during that time, but something about it always bothered me. It took me a long time, but I finally rejected it. The reason it took me so long is that it's probably the most devious doctrine there is in the religious world. | ||
| Honestwitness Registered user Username: Honestwitness Post Number: 1255 Registered: 7-2005 |
This is addressed in Colossians, chapter 2, but is mentioned specifically in Colossians 2:23 "Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh." Do you see it there? "Will worship." WILL worship. Worship of the will. Adventism could be called the untimate course in will worship. Will Worship 101 is taught in every Adventist publication, expounded in every Adventist pulpit, and parroted in the conversations of every sabbath potluck lunch. I am SO THROUGH WITH ADVENTISM!!! Can you tell? | ||
| Bskillet Registered user Username: Bskillet Post Number: 1047 Registered: 8-2008 |
So true. SDAism is a cult of will worship, which is really a cult of self-idolatry. | ||
| Philharris Registered user Username: Philharris Post Number: 2974 Registered: 5-2007 |
I will 'second that' with an AMEN! Fearless Phil | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 3269 Registered: 7-2007 |
And the people in it are so miserable, seeing that something is missing, but not knowing what it is... In my case though, having been raised in it, I thought it was normal to not have fellowship with God, normal to go along in the dim half-life of the religion. Occasionally I'd read about a Christian that had joy in being a Christian and marvel about how his prayers were answered. Somehow it didn't give me "cognitive dissonance" though. I'd just think: "Wow! He's such a great Christian. Wouldn't it be wonderful if he found the truth of Adventism?!" | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 14676 Registered: 12-2003  |
I agree. All of us, everyone, breaks the commandments. When we break one, according to James, we break all of them...and Jesus Himself raised the bar from a few commands to the intention of the heart. If a person hates or lusts, he has broken the sixth or seventh commandments. Jesus came and saved us to bring us to life, not primarily to "make us good". We would have no righteousness except for the personal, imputed righteousness of the Lord Jesus for all who believe. Colleen | ||
| Mainexile Registered user Username: Mainexile Post Number: 148 Registered: 6-2008 |
"his takes away from Jesus the power and the right to grant salvation and gives that power, instead, to the human will." Well said Honestwitness, Adventism is, indeed a craftily concocted belief system designed to magnify a false prophet and a terribly flawed doctrine. It never ceases to amaze me. Adventist apologists have refined the art of double speak far beyond the folks in Washington DC. | ||
| Grace_alone Registered user Username: Grace_alone Post Number: 2155 Registered: 6-2006  |
Honestwitness, I really appreciate how you worded the "will worship" posts. It's so true, emphasis is dependence on the will (with the commandments) instead of Jesus' righteousness and sacrifice on the cross. These teachings are in direct opposition of the Bible and could not suck any worse. Great insight! | ||
| Leifl Registered user Username: Leifl Post Number: 10 Registered: 3-2014 |
Well, ultimately the problem with Mr. White is his inability to distinguish between moral and ritual laws. Definition of Moral Law and Ceremonial Laws Moral: Concerned with the principles of right and wrong behavior and the goodness or badness of human character. Ceremonial: Relating to or used for formal events of a religious or public nature. Question: is the Sabbath commandment a law that governs the “goodness or badness of human character,” or is it a commandment that relates to an event of religious nature? Jewish Perspective "Shabbat is the most important ritual observance in Judaism and is the only ritual observance instituted in the Ten Commandments." – Jewish Virtual Library, “Shabbat“ "[The] Sabbath [is] the only ritual appearing in the Ten Commandments." (Rabbi Aryeh Kaplan, Why The Sabbath) The Jewish people do not consider the Sabbath to be a universal or moral commandment. The quotes above clearly demonstrates that the Jewish people regard the Sabbath as a ritual observance, unique among the precepts of the Decalogue. We are told that no (practicing) adulterer will inherit the kingdom of God. But Sabbath breakers are never mentioned in this context. 1 Cor. 6:9. Some may object to this "two law" approach, nevertheless, the Sabbath is a ceremonial, and not an ethical, law. http://youarecompleteinhim.wordpress.com/2014/01/24/sabbath-moral-or-ceremonial-law/ | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 3306 Registered: 7-2007 |
And it's so simple to know the difference between the Old Covenant and the New Covenant which is in place now! I never would have dreamed that it's so easy to understand that the Sabbath day doesn't apply now, back when I was an Adventist! | ||
| Mjcmcook Registered user Username: Mjcmcook Post Number: 1357 Registered: 2-2011  |
People build 'Walls' with many different 'stones'; stones of: pride, stubbornness, unforgiveness, bitterness, resentment, jealously to name a few. The 'Wall' begins small; as a boundary, a protection. The stones the builder uses are polished and cherished by the builder. The 'Wall' becomes higher and higher until the builder cannot see over the 'Wall' and people on the outside can not see over, either. The builder is alone and miserable. Only GOD can reach down and help the builder to removes the stones of the 'Wall'~ this happens when the builder cries out for help! I think this applies to all of us~ wherever we are in our 'walk'~ or wall-building! We must guard against these 'cherished stones'! And the temptation to begin re-building the 'Wall'. ~mj~ | ||
| Asurprise Registered user Username: Asurprise Post Number: 3308 Registered: 7-2007 |
I'd like to explain to any SDAs reading this, just why it's so simple. I'd like to put down a few verses: First exactly what the Old Covanant was...(here, Moses is speaking to Israel.) "And he declared to you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, that is, the Ten Commandments" Deuteronomy 4:13 Then just who the Old Covenant was given to... "And Moses summoned all Israel and said to them, “Hear, O Israel, the statutes and the rules that I speak in your hearing today, and you shall learn them and be careful to do them. The Lord our God made a covenant with us in Horeb. Not with our fathers did the Lord make this covenant, but with us, who are all of us here alive today." Deuteronomy 5:1-3 (By the way, the word "covenant" means "testament" so I encourage all Adventists to read the New Testament to see what the New Covenant is all about.) Next, here's a verse that mentions what has happened to the Old Covenant. "In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away." Hebrews 8:13 And this is when the New Covenant came into effect: "Therefore He is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant. For where a will is involved, the death of the one who made it must be established. For a will takes effect only at death, since it is not in force as long as the one who made it is alive." Hebrews 9:15-17 But what happened to the Sabbath? Because here's a verse that says it doesn't matter anymore whether one keeps a day or not: "One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind." Romans 14:5 All the various kinds of Sabbaths - the yearly/seasonal, the monthly and the weekly; were all SHADOWS of Christ! " Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ." Colossians 2:16-17 I pray that all who reads this sees the truth of the gospel and be saved! |
