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Registered user
Username: Indy4now

Post Number: 1086
Registered: 2-2008

Posted on Thursday, January 30, 2014 - 4:07 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

... it's been such a long time since I've posted here!! ... way too long!

I was reading through Phillipians yesterday morning and came across 2:10,

"so that at the name of Jesus every knee will bow, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth," (NASB)

Since I have left Adventism back in '06, I have read this many times. I know that I never saw "...under the earth," when I was Adventist. How does the SDA explain "under the earth." My parents never mentioned Hell and didn't teach us anything about it. What is EGW's explanation for Hell. What is the official SDA stance? For anyone who has "The Clear Word"... what does it say there?

Registered user
Username: Ric_b

Post Number: 2094
Registered: 7-2004

Posted on Sunday, February 02, 2014 - 6:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Clear Word distortion simply leaves out "under the earth" and reads "all beings in heaven and on the earth".

(Message edited by ric_b on February 02, 2014)
Registered user
Username: Indy4now

Post Number: 1087
Registered: 2-2008

Posted on Monday, February 03, 2014 - 4:17 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

wow... The Clear Word actually omits the words!!

I don't ever remember anyone teaching at church or at La Sierra Academy or at home about Sheol, Hades, Hell... those words never came up.

Thx for posting that Ric. I keep thinking that I should purchase The Clear Word and the Great Controversy as reference material. I did find the GC online and downloaded it. I have recently re-read the chapter on the IJ. *sigh* The further I get away from Adventism, the worse that chapter reads. It is so so bad.

Registered user
Username: Philharris

Post Number: 3004
Registered: 5-2007

Posted on Monday, February 03, 2014 - 8:14 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

When I logged onto the online Greek Interlinear Bible and read Phil. 2:10, I found this literal three-part phrase:

‘of-celestial-ones, of-terrestrial-ones, of-subterranean-ones’

There is no excuse for the Clear Word reading of the original Greek.

Fearless Phil

(Message edited by philharris on February 03, 2014)
Registered user
Username: 1john2v27nlt

Post Number: 519
Registered: 5-2009
Posted on Monday, February 03, 2014 - 6:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Clear Word does that because Jack Blanco stated straight up that he did not use the original languages except for a few 'difficult passages.' That travesty is not even a real paraphrase. The only thing it does is weave egw right into the very scriptures themselves. It clearly uses egw to make the scriptures conform to egw/adventist doctrines.

I pray that before he dies he repents & recants of this grievous thing.
Registered user
Username: Indy4now

Post Number: 1088
Registered: 2-2008

Posted on Tuesday, February 04, 2014 - 5:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Does anyone here have an SDA commentary... or is there an online SDA commentary of this verse??
Registered user
Username: Free2dance

Post Number: 712
Registered: 2-2010
Posted on Wednesday, February 05, 2014 - 12:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wow, Phil, that's great. Thanks for sharing that. Which online interlinear do you use?

Registered user
Username: Philharris

Post Number: 3005
Registered: 5-2007

Posted on Wednesday, February 05, 2014 - 1:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This is the online interlinear bible that I've been using:

The above link takes you to the Greek but in the upper right corner of the home page is a link to the Hebrew.

Fearless Phil
Registered user
Username: Rioranchoprays

Post Number: 30
Registered: 3-2014
Posted on Friday, March 14, 2014 - 4:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

According to Dr. Maxwell, of Loma Linda University, there is no hell or anything like that.

In his book, Truth Led Me Out, Dale Ratzlaff summarizes Dr. Maxwell's ideas on hell on page 95
God is not going to punish the wicked--ever--and that any punishment is only the result of natural consequences and is not an act of God.
Registered user
Username: Mjcmcook

Post Number: 1376
Registered: 2-2011

Posted on Saturday, March 15, 2014 - 1:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I remember in the 1980's I was required to take a college course to maintain
my denominational credential, taught by A.Graham Maxwell. (he died in November, 2010).

The thrust of the course, was, Are 'we' "safe to save?"
At this time I was still an adventist, and even then, I just could not 'buy into'
what he was teaching! It made me
question many things. But, Dr. Maxwell was the adventist 'expert' on all things Bibicial,
who was 'I' to ????

The following is a link to something I found revealing about Dr. Maxwell I
was not completely aware of.

Registered user
Username: Colleentinker

Post Number: 14761
Registered: 12-2003

Posted on Wednesday, March 19, 2014 - 10:31 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

MJ, thanks for that great link! Very informative and interesting.

Maxwell's "genius" is that he couched the moral influence theory in the Great Controversy model. Of course, the fact that the two mesh well is significant; the Great Controversy model is completely unbiblical.

Then, as Maxwell taught his theory of atonement at LLU, he shaped the theological worldview of thousands of medical school, dental school, allied health, public health, and graduate school students over a period of four decades. Those students took their Maxwell theory of atonement with them into their churches across North American and into the mission fields.

Because physicians and dentists—and even allied health professionals—are generally "revered" within Adventism and are seen as the bearers and practitioners of the "right arm of the gospel"—and because they tend to have the largest incomes within Adventist congregations—they tend to "run" the local churches. They are often on the church board, are Sabbath School teachers and superintendents, etc etc. They are listened to because they both have money and have the confidence (dare I say arrogance, in some situations?) that comes from knowing they are "doctors" and have graduate degrees. They are the intellectual leaders of their local churches, and people listen.

This has been a very, very successful method of promulgating Maxwellian theology. It has infiltrated Adventism everywhere, and in some locations it is the dominant "flavor" of Adventism. It never renounces the Adventist worldview or the great controversy theme. It upholds and endorses it, in fact.

There is no accident in all of this. It's just another "flavor" of the same creature: Adventism and an Adventist worldview that teaches a spirit-less physical human, a Jesus who could have sinned and could have failed, a God who is not sovereign but who limits himself to empower humans and angels' free will, and a devil who takes the sins of the saved at the end. The underlying fabric of Adventism is the same no matter what the outside presentation is.

Maxwell theology and the Moral Influence theory are simply one very palatable way to package Adventism because its proponents don't have to deal with Jesus' blood. Traditional Adventism teaches "the blood", but it teaches a horrifying distortion of it: that Jesus' blood pollutes the sanctuary by carrying sins into it. What heresy.

Both bloodless atonement and blood-defiling Adventism are anti-Christ and are false gospels. And both fit nicely into the traditional Adventist framework: the natures of man, of Christ, of sin, and of salvation are the same in each of the theories of atonement taught in Adventism.

Registered user
Username: Nowisee

Post Number: 1447
Registered: 5-2009
Posted on Thursday, March 20, 2014 - 3:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Colleen, you explained this so clearly---thank you!!! You've articulated one of the main reasons that many Christians just don't believe something is wrong with SDAism…and there is a close parallel within Mormonism, too. They are very high-achieving people & that is religion-based as well. (Anyone interested in a great book on the subject needs to read "The Mormonizing of America" by Stephen Mansfield…) Mormons are very often well-educated & in high positions, yet their beliefs are about as kooky as you can get, when you dig into them. That religion helps me understand what's behind the scenes in SDAism.

Ellen's "handsome young man" sure knew what he was doing when he whispered the "health message" in her ears each night….very crafty & clever, indeed.

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