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Leifl
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Username: Leifl

Post Number: 17
Registered: 3-2014


Posted on Saturday, March 08, 2014 - 8:00 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

SabbatarianISM, a religious persuasion that attempts to make weekly Sabbath keeping the touchstone of Christianity, is the root of these false teachings:

- That the blood Jesus shed on the cross did not cancel sin
- That our Saviour has been performing His work of atonement in heaven since 1844
- That Satan is the final sin-bearer for the transgressions of Godís people
- That Christians will stand before God the Father without Jesus as their mediator

In Seventh-day Adventism, the great test of a personís acceptance with God is not faith in Christís complete and sufficient sacrifice, not even his role as mediator, but their own performance as measured by the keeping of a ceremonial commandment.

This turns the gospel inside out, for it places the law at the centre of salvation, rather than the cross. It does not focus on what God has done through Christ for the salvation of humanity, but rather on the believer performing a weekly ritual in order to merit or prove themselves worthy of salvation.

Furthermore, the arguments necessary to maintain the necessity of Sabbath keeping in the new covenant creates the hermeneutic which undermines the centrality of the cross event in Sabbatarianism.

My latest blog post:

http://youarecompleteinhim.wordpress.com/2014/03/07/sabbath-touchstone-spiritual-reality-2/

(Message edited by LeifL on March 08, 2014)
Asurprise
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Username: Asurprise

Post Number: 3311
Registered: 7-2007
Posted on Saturday, March 08, 2014 - 12:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Adventists would deny that they believe that they have to "do" anything to be saved. They would deny that even to themselves. But if you asked them if they would be saved if they deliberately stopped keeping the Sabbath; if they were honest, they'd have to say no.

The religion even started out with a sneaky works belief. I don't remember where I heard it, but I was taught that before Ellen White started having visions, the visions came to a man who was too nervous to tell them to people in public. As the story goes, since he refused to tell them, God supposedly told him that He was going to give them to "the weakest of the weak" and that's why Ellen White was "chosen." The story goes on to say that since this man refused, God withdrew his Spirit and, it strongly implies, His salvation from this man and after that it was forever too late for him and he could never again repent. So, of course, Adventists would conclude from that, that if they're not careful, they could be lost. When you tell them that if a person is truly saved, that they can't be lost; they'll come back with the excuse of: "so that means you can lie and steal and kill?!" They fail to understand that Jesus keeps his children from falling [Jude 1:24] and they also fail to understand the work of the Holy Spirit which follows - not to keep people saved, but as a result.

Their belief also contradicts so many verses in the Bible. Verses such as:
"I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life." 1st John 5:13
It wouldn't be "eternal life" if one could lose it!

"I am writing to you, little children, because your sins are forgiven for his name's sake." 1st John 2:12
Their sins were still forgiven by the time they got that letter! So FUTURE SINS are forgiven! The gospel is really good news!

"But when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared, He saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to His own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit" Titus 3:4-5 [also see Ephesians 2:8-9 and 2nd Tim. 1:9]
The thing that SDAs lack is regeneration by the Holy Spirit. They think all that they need to do is accept the 27 (or is it 28) fundamental beliefs of Adventism!

"Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears My word and believes Him who sent Me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life." John 5:24
"Has eternal life!" It wouldn't be eternal life if a person can lose it! This one also contradicts the "investigative judgment," because a believer won't come into judgment!
Mjcmcook
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Username: Mjcmcook

Post Number: 1362
Registered: 2-2011


Posted on Saturday, March 08, 2014 - 12:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Asurprise~

Yes, I, too, was told the story that you related in your first paragraph!

I was told it as "Fact"! Oh my, what a twisted religion! Praise GOD we are 'out'!

~mj~
Rioranchoprays
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Username: Rioranchoprays

Post Number: 20
Registered: 3-2014
Posted on Saturday, March 08, 2014 - 5:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yup! Me, too. I heard that story in the 7th grade, my first in Adventist grade school. I was very impressionable and soaked in all of those stories. I wonder how many myths are there in the SDA church.

Recently, after reading old issues of Proclamation, I saw that EGW was the one who said that Michael was really Jesus. Then the article went on to say that that belief is not in the Bible. I couldn't believe it, I left SDA Church back in 1981, but I had that error in the back of my mind. Well, it's gone now.

I think that's why I like this site as well as the articles in Proclamation, I come across ideas that I didn't realize came totally from EGW. What a trip!
Flyinglady
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Username: Flyinglady

Post Number: 10114
Registered: 3-2004


Posted on Saturday, March 08, 2014 - 7:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yep, I heard that story also, way back when I was in sda grade/high school.
Diana
Leifl
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Username: Leifl

Post Number: 18
Registered: 3-2014


Posted on Saturday, March 08, 2014 - 7:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I was taught the same. We had a book as a kid named "His Messenger". It recounted all the tales that surround Ellen White's life, including holding the enormous Bible above her head while she had an extended vision, and turning to the very passages pointing to them (though she was in a trance and could not see the pages from her point of view).
Colleentinker
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Username: Colleentinker

Post Number: 14757
Registered: 12-2003


Posted on Saturday, March 08, 2014 - 9:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Isn't is amazing how certain "Adventist myths" are taught to all the generations? They may say they "never read EGW" and don't believe her, but their entire worldview is shaped by her. They often have no idea that they are living in an "EGW Matrix".

The deception is total.

Colleen
Foofighter
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Username: Foofighter

Post Number: 309
Registered: 7-2005
Posted on Monday, March 10, 2014 - 7:25 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"EGW Matrix". A great way to describe it, Colleen. Yes, even the people who say they don't believe in her, or don't read her, are still in the web far more than they even realize.
Rioranchoprays
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Username: Rioranchoprays

Post Number: 21
Registered: 3-2014
Posted on Monday, March 10, 2014 - 5:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well, friends, I agree with all of the above posts. I talk often to my brother, the Adventist, about salvation. He seems to get the gospel, but he really only reads the Old Testament.

The Adventist church really majors on the OT. That's where the law is, and all of the various laws that Moses gave to the Israelites. If you only hear the law & EGW from the pulpit over and over again. If you only hear that you belong to God's remnant Church and you are doing what God's commands. You start to believe all of the SDA myths. You start to feel that there is no hope for those poor deluded Christians who worship on Sunday. This is a very depressing religion to belong to.
Leifl
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Username: Leifl

Post Number: 20
Registered: 3-2014


Posted on Friday, March 14, 2014 - 11:16 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

When you says that he understands the gospel, but only reads the Old Testament: does he acknowledge:

- That the gospel is the answer to man's fall from grace
- That we have (through the fall) become corrupted and condemned, and that in such a condition we are lost, blind, and spiritually dead from the start; furthermore we can't even desire our own salvation without the prior work of grace
- That only through the work of Christ, not our own, do we have justification (removal of condemnation)
- That only through the work of Christ applied to the heart by the Holy Spirit do can we experience a reversal of corruption (regeneration, sanctification)
- That only because of the work Christ has done is our relationship with God repaired, own efforts can never bridge that gap
- That we are complete in Christ, without observing any of the types that pointed toward Him
- That when we are saved, we are forever secure in God's hand because of the covenant made between the Father and the Son, and not because we in any way merited it, earned it, or deserve it, but through simple faith if Christ alone?

The seeds of the gospel can be found in the Old Testament, as the glory of the sun can be seen reflecting from the moon. But when one has the light of the sun, the light of the moon is no longer necessary to light our way - in fact, it becomes rather insignificant. (I believe the Old Testament to be the inspired word of God, but that the New Testament is the primary source for understanding salvation in the New Covenant).

The reflected light is unable to display in any way the glorious brilliance of the sun, even though it is the same light.

(Message edited by leifl on March 14, 2014)

(Message edited by leifl on March 14, 2014)
Resjudicata
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Username: Resjudicata

Post Number: 33
Registered: 4-2014
Posted on Saturday, May 03, 2014 - 9:48 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ellen White left no ambiguity in stressing he incompatibility of the Sabbath with the Gospel:

"It means eternal salvation to keep the Sabbath holy unto the Lord. God says: "Them that honor Me I will honor." {6T 356.4}


"But if we turn aside from the fourth commandment, so positively given by God, to adopt the inventions of Satan, voiced and acted by men under his control, we cannot be saved. We cannot with safety receive his traditions and subtleties as truth." {RH, July 6, 1897 par. 4}

"No one who disregards the fourth commandment, after becoming enlightened in regard to the claims of the Sabbath, can be held guiltless in the sight of God." {RH, July 6, 1897 par. 14}

"All will be judged according to the light that has shone upon them. If they have light upon the Sabbath, they cannot be saved in rejecting that light."{HS 234.3}

"As persons become convinced from the Scriptures that the claims of the fourth commandment are still binding, the question is often raised, Is it necessary in order to secure salvation that we keep the Sabbath? This is a question of grave importance. If the light has shone from the word of God, if the message has been presented to men, as it was to Pharaoh, and they refuse to heed that message, if they reject the light, they refuse to obey God, and cannot be saved in their disobedience." {RH, January 5, 1886 par. 2}
Asurprise
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Username: Asurprise

Post Number: 3354
Registered: 7-2007
Posted on Saturday, May 03, 2014 - 12:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wow! I ought to send those to my SDA sister who insists that she accepts Jesus' free gift of salvation. (Though she does admit she believes that she has to keep on asking forgiveness for her sins and staying close to Jesus IN ORDER to be saved when Jesus comes back.)

Those who believe Ellen White are actually taught NOT to get saved! Uggg!
Resjudicata
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Username: Resjudicata

Post Number: 35
Registered: 4-2014
Posted on Saturday, May 03, 2014 - 2:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You know what is discouraging? The more I study and unravel Ellen White's multitudes of lies, the more convinced I am that I will never see my parents again.

I am no match for someone that can perpetuate such a massive, unbiblical fraud.
Mjcmcook
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Username: Mjcmcook

Post Number: 1440
Registered: 2-2011


Posted on Saturday, May 03, 2014 - 3:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Resjudicata~

Never say, "Never"!

Remember, your parents are 'blinded' by the massive spiritual army of satan~

You and I were once 'blind'~

GOD is stronger than even the most tiny demon in the army of satan!

GOD scoffs at them!

Look where we are now?!

My Mother was an (historical-hysterical adventist!) Before she died she accepted JESUS as her Savior~ it had nothing
to do with 'egw' and her lies~

Keep on loving and praying for your parents~
Never,Never,Never give up!

~mj~
Colleentinker
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Username: Colleentinker

Post Number: 14805
Registered: 12-2003


Posted on Tuesday, May 06, 2014 - 6:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Depending on details, knowing Jesus CAN make it possible to set appropriate boundaries with someone if they're actually dangerous. At the same time, God can reach those people with or without using us.

For the first time, when we know Jesus, we can actually turn our rigid, unbelieving family over to Him and allow Him to deal with them and to teach us to give up our expectation that they will ever be who we wanted them to be. That doesn't mean they will never relate to us...it just means we allow Jesus to fill the holes they could never fill because of their brokenness.

And we trust Him with whether or not we'll see them. He will make it clear.

Colleen

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