Post Number: 30
|Posted on Friday, June 06, 2014 - 11:19 am: || |
I really need your help with this one. My mother-in-law is posting stuff on Facebook. Now she posted this: Isaiah 56:
6 Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant;
The stranger keeping the sabbath, so should the stranger keep the sabbath? Please help me
Post Number: 3404
|Posted on Friday, June 06, 2014 - 12:50 pm: || |
Carracio; I think it's talking about people in the Old Covenant because that's when it was written.
Post Number: 31
|Posted on Friday, June 06, 2014 - 12:57 pm: || |
But aren't prophecy's also made for us?
Post Number: 32
|Posted on Friday, June 06, 2014 - 1:07 pm: || |
But my mother-in-law doesnt sacrifice:
7 Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.
So it is a bit weird to claim that you should keep the abbath while not offering at the same time, isnt it?
Post Number: 3405
|Posted on Friday, June 06, 2014 - 1:17 pm: || |
Yes, I think this is a blend of both end time prophecy and exhortations to the people living then.
Post Number: 3406
|Posted on Friday, June 06, 2014 - 1:21 pm: || |
When it talks about sacrificing and keeping the Sabbath (and later on New Moons) then it's definitely addressing Israel living then.
Post Number: 32
|Posted on Saturday, June 07, 2014 - 5:24 am: || |
Perhaps this will help?
"Join themselves to the Lord" refers to becoming a part of Israel (though circumcision, for a male).
Post Number: 9
|Posted on Monday, June 09, 2014 - 10:59 pm: || |
Isa 56:1-8 is often presented by Sabbatarians as a proof-text for either Gentiles observing the Sabbath or the observation of the Sabbath in some future time period (i.e., Barcellos, “Old Testament Theology of the Sabbath”).
However, if this passage is foretelling a future time of Sabbath observation, then it is also foretelling a future time of temple duties and eunuch laws. The corollary makes suspect this interpretation.
Now it is possible in a passage such as this that some moral laws are mixed with ceremonial laws—and this might be the reply of Sabbatarians—but with added complexity comes the obligation to be even more careful in exegesis.
Chapter 53 introduces the Messiah, but in symbolical and typological language. It is not so obvious to the casual reader just who is under review; however, with the revelation of the new covenant we learn that it is speaking of Christ (Mt 8:17; 27:57-60; 1 Pet 2:24-25). So, the interpreter should be couching their analysis of this section of Isaiah in messianic terms, that is, looking forward prophetically to the great themes of redemption.
Chapter 54 has images of a barren woman producing abundant fruit because the Lord has betrothed her; then of people tossed about finding security and wealth because of the Lord’s promises; and finally those whose lives are threatened, even when the Lord acts in judgment, experiencing peace because they are servants of the Lord. The Lord’s redemption is this wonderful!
Chapter 55 finds the Lord offering to the whole world abundant life without price. What King David had can be yours, but forsake your wickedness and find forgiveness and mercy with the Lord. You will be secure on the basis of God’s word. The free gift of salvation is presented, but it follows from the suffering of the righteous servant. Redemption is not yours to buy!
Chapter 56 concludes the illustrations of those who find salvation in the Lord: the Gentile and the eunuch can also find redemption. The flow of the prophecy is to proclaim the magnificence of the Lord’s redemption. There is no one who cannot be touched by the Lord’s goodness; there is no circumstance to harsh that the Lord is unable to redress it. The Sabbath and sacrifices must be interpreted in the light of Christ’s work of redemption.
So why bring up the Sabbath in conjunction with the Gentile and eunuch? It is because obedience to these laws (under the old covenant) represented the faith one had in the Lord. The Gentile and eunuch are not the seed of Abraham, so what hope of salvation do they have? Is it by law-keeping? No, it is faith that saves, not obedience to a law (Rom 3:28, 30). And what is their faith in? It is in Lord who devised these laws for their symbolic meaning. When an Israelite (or Gentile or eunuch) obeyed the law IN FAITH, their faith was in what the law symbolized. Keeping the Sabbath symbolized participation in the covenant of peace. By obeying the Sabbath, the Israelite affirmed that their works could not save them (Do not work). Only by God’s grace, through faith (but rest), could the Israelite be declared righteous in God’s sight. The law restricting business on the Sabbath conforms to the illustration in Isa 55, that salvation is not a commercial commodity; alas, it is for your soul. “Find rest for your soul,” said Jesus. But as Paul questioned, “Is He God of the Jews only?” (Rom 3:29). Isaiah’s mention of the Gentile and eunuch underscores the new covenant revelation that the gospel of peace can be experienced by any man or woman, Jew or Greek, slave or free (Gal 3:28). The promised reward for faith is the personal escort of the Lord into His very presence (mountain of the Lord, His altar), the experience of joy in the company of other believers (house of prayer), and the acceptance of your praise (burnt offerings and sacrifices). “My house shall be called a house of prayer for all nations” simply means that the Lord will gather to Himself from every nation a people to Himself. “And they sang a new song, saying: "You are worthy to take the scroll, And to open its seals; For You were slain, And have redeemed us to God by Your blood Out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, And have made us kings and priests to our God; And we shall reign on the earth" (Rev 5:9-10).
Leif, thanks for the blog link.
Post Number: 89
|Posted on Tuesday, June 10, 2014 - 4:49 am: || |
One of the problems with any interpretation of a verse in the Old Testament is that our OT is but a tiny fragment of the actual law the Children of Israel were under. What we have as the Old Testament is just enough law and prophecy to establish the historical underpinnings and "foreshadowing" of Jesus Christ. We would do well to leave it at that.
The OT is not even CLOSE to being a Mosaic Law primer. What is contained in it is so scant as to almost always be misleading, at the best of times. At worst, it spawns malignant and toxic cults like SDA and Branch Davidians and so on. Ignorance of the historical context of the OT Law is usually lethal.
We could learn a lot from the Jews, but we typically completely ignore their take on the law, even though they have been obsessively thinking about it for 5,000 years with some of the most brilliant minds in history. Our first 5 books of the OT constitute the written Torah. The Mishnah Torah, which the Jews insist was given orally to Moses at the same time as the written Torah is at least 95 percent of the entire Torah! And the Babylonian and Jerusalem Talmuds are 50 times bigger than the Mishnah Torah. And yet when Jesus or Paul talks about the law, they are talking about ALL of it! They were not living in our imaginary pretend world where we imagine that we can understand the OT law by reading the OT. Paul was a Pharisee who well-understood the Mishnah Torah and the Babylonian Talmud. No wonder he denounced Christians even attempting to keep any part of the Law! The Resurrection so incredibly overshadowed ANYTHING in the law is and was just so obvious to the Apostles. We should take their hard-earned knowledge and wisdom regarding the Mishnah Torah and RUN with the Christian freedom that Paul gave us in liberating us from the Mishnah Torah.
Post Number: 14840
|Posted on Tuesday, June 10, 2014 - 4:38 pm: || |
Carracio, your point about the sacrifices is right on. The entire OT law hung on the priesthood and the sacrifices. You couldn't have the days and the moral requirements without the sacrifices and the priesthood. That's why Res's point is so true; Paul knew no one could keep the law because the sacrifices were over; the Sacrifice has been offered! The law has no more power because its righteous requirements have been met.