Post Number: 3443
|Posted on Tuesday, August 05, 2014 - 10:39 am: || |
God illustrated salvation three ways when He instituted the Day of Atonement in Leviticus 16. Jesus is represented by the high priest, the Lord's goat and the scapegoat. Of course Adventists like to claim that the scapegoat represents the devil, along with another couple evil doctrines such as claiming that Jesus' blood defiled the sanctuary and that the devil has to come along at the end of time and cleanse it!
As far as the scapegoat is concerned, here are some verses for SDAs to consider:
"And Aaron shall lay both his hands upon the head of the live goat, and confess over him all the iniquities of the children of Israel, and all their transgressions in all their sins, putting them upon the head of the goat, and shall send him away by the hand of a fit man into the wilderness: And the goat shall bear upon him all their iniquities unto a land not inhabited: and he shall let go the goat in the wilderness." (Leviticus 16:21,22)
"All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned—every one—to his own way; and the Lord has laid on Him the iniquity of us all." Isaiah 53:6 "So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many... Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate. Let us go forth therefore unto him without the camp, bearing his reproach." (Hebrews 9:28, 13:12,13)
Here's an email that I wrote to an SDA relative showing her one of the many verses that contradict the "investigative judgment."
Since you believe everything the Adventist church teaches you believe that the "investigative judgment" started in 1844. What about this verse?
"Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life." John 5:24 Since the Adventist church teaches that all the righteous will be judged, they're contradicting the Bible!
(Did you notice the "has eternal life" ??? A person cannot have eternal life if it isn't eternal!)
The day of atonement represented Jesus dying and atoning for our sins. He did that 2000 years ago when He took His blood - once for all time - into the Most Holy Place in Heaven.
That represented that people could go WITH JESUS straight into God's Presence in the Most Holy Place in Heaven!
Post Number: 3444
|Posted on Tuesday, August 05, 2014 - 1:24 pm: || |
Here's a good article on the "Investigative Judgment."
Also the book of Hebrews makes it clear that Jesus didn't wait until 1844 to go into God's Presence which is in the Holy of Holies!
(See Hebrews 6:19-20 and Hebrews 10:12)
Post Number: 228
|Posted on Wednesday, August 06, 2014 - 6:42 am: || |
I have came to conclude that it is not possible to believe seriously in the IJ and stay sane.
Post Number: 10168
|Posted on Wednesday, August 06, 2014 - 10:50 am: || |
I am so glad I no longer believe in the IJ. I am sane now.
Post Number: 1461
|Posted on Thursday, August 07, 2014 - 11:02 pm: || |
The IJ was a horrible burden of hopelessness. The Gospel is indeed Good News!!! (1 Cor. 15:1-4) Trying to pass the IJ results in a life of depression, OCD & misery. How they (re-) named EGW's book that teaches this doctrine (in it's shortened form) "The Great HOPE" boggles the imagination….this awful book also teaches, contrary to Scripture, that we must be so perfected that we will be able to stand in front of a holy God, without a Mediator.
Post Number: 234
|Posted on Friday, August 08, 2014 - 6:45 am: || |
In my opinion, if you are REALLY honest about yourself, you KNOW that you could never "pass the IJ" or be perfect enough "stand before God without a mediator." Congenital sinners (i.e. "you" and "me" and "Flyinglady" and "Ellen White") by definition have no chance of "passing the IJ." You can still be a congenital sinner, yet be honest about what you really are. The two are not mutually exclusive.
Post Number: 350
|Posted on Friday, August 08, 2014 - 8:43 am: || |
I wasn't raised SDA, but I have read about, and spoken to, many SDA's who grew up as you did, with this terrible feeling of hopelessness, fear and despair. Joy in the Lord? Not even close. It's horrible.
The other part of this is, that many want to blame the victim of this spiritual abuse. "Well, they just didn't understand it", or "they had bad teachers or parents", or "they took EGW out of context". Those kinds of remarks get my blood boiling!
Post Number: 14893
|Posted on Monday, August 11, 2014 - 6:22 pm: || |
Oh, Foofighter, I agree! That is maddening. To try to explain away such a soul-deadening doctrine by saying "they didn't really understand it..."
Richard's parents have often said if he had really understood Adventism, he would not have left.
Really? It's incomprehensible to me that anyone thinks people leave Adventism because they "don't understand it". Wrong! The more I understand it, the farther from it I go. And believe me, Richard was raised in an entrenched, fully-understanding SDA family. He never tasted ketchup, for example, until academy because it contained vinegar.
To pass off our reactions as being the product of "not understanding" or "taking Ellen out of context" is just incredibly thoughtless. Most of us who have left Adventism for Jesus, I'll bet, were the Adventists who took our beliefs seriously. We weren't indifferent to "our truth". We may have been more liberal or evangelical, but it wasn't thoughtless rebellion. We believed Adventism was right...even if we believed we couldn't "do it" right.
Post Number: 8157
|Posted on Monday, August 18, 2014 - 5:23 pm: || |
Its the enemy of your soul in his attempts to minimize you, and to demoralize you.
Am I saying that Satan uses people? Yes, that is exactly what I am saying. It’s a fight for hearts and minds “Oh well, you just don’t understand it.” Or “You are purposely taking it out of context.”
I think the hardest thing for former Adventists to be aware of, and I think on a deep level they are aware of it, but on a surface level not aware of it, is the dark spiritual forces that are going to come against them to minimize and demoralize them.
I can imagine it is kind of hard to swallow that parents and lifelong friends are being used against them by these dark forces, but the Bible doesn’t declare that we fight not against flesh and blood with tongue in cheek sayings.
Satan uses people. That’s how he gets his work done. I haven’t seen any tables flying around the room or some such.
I know my own self I keep forgetting this. Its very hard to live in this world, and constantly be aware of the spiritual forces that are aligned against every Christian.
The thing is, Satan doesn’t want your family, he just wants to destroy them because God created them. We can’t get an attitude of self importance just because Satan all of a sudden takes a bead on us, we are just a dribble to him as its God he hates more. He knows his time is short before he is thrown into hell forever, and he hates God because of it.
Post Number: 10172
|Posted on Monday, August 18, 2014 - 5:47 pm: || |
River, I have said what you wrote above for a long time now. Thanks for expanding on it.
Post Number: 1470
|Posted on Monday, October 06, 2014 - 5:47 pm: || |
Yes, IMO, Adventism gets a fierce hold on people & it is impossible to get free of it without God pulling us out. We are not wrestling against just "flesh & blood".
Post Number: 1590
|Posted on Monday, October 06, 2014 - 8:21 pm: || |
Post Number: 49
|Posted on Thursday, October 09, 2014 - 6:36 pm: || |
I also have been told that people who fully understand and comprehend SDA'ism would never leave it. But, it is circular and impossible to make sense of. One of my cousins favorite sayings is, "you can't make sense out of nonsense" and to me that sums up SDA'ism. I also was taught that wr are not to take Paul's wtitings as really part of the Bible. We should eliminate Paul and read EGW for truth. Aaaugh!