| Author | Message | ||
| Resjudicata Registered user Username: Resjudicata Post Number: 336 Registered: 4-2014 |
MjCook and Phil, Thank you so much for your prayers and concern. And I just want to expound a little bit on what MjCook wrote. All of my life, I have had this persistent feeling that something was really "wrong" with me and that I "was not good enough." It persisted even when I enjoyed extraordinary success, which actually happened more often than not. Straight "A's" massive bank accounts, all of the toys in the world, the esteem of colleagues, and massive fame........nothing stopped those gnawing feelings of "less than" and self-loathing. Although I am presently in a real world of hurt physically, one thing I am very confident in is that I am healing from those feelings, which always has been far more painful than any physical pain. And the healing from the feelings really "feels" like it is permanent. I know now that reading Canright back in January started the process of reexamining my Adventist "hangover" that I should have begun and completed 33 years ago. I still think about the Resurrection all of the time. It repetitively intrudes into my consciousness (not that I mind). And I have experienced incredible, unbelievable healing from those "Adventist hangover" feelings. Somewhere (I wish I could find it but I cannot) Colleen argued that many ex-Adventists suffer from PTSD and other dis associative maladies as a result their Adventist experiences. I believe that is true about me. And I believe the repetitive and intrusive thoughts about the Resurrection are leading me into a permanent healing place because they are pushing out and displacing the "Adventist hangover." It feels like a real live miracle. The book project has already accomplished some massive healing inside me. There just seems to be no replacement for "writing it out," which I have done on a truly massive scale. And Adventism just has a repetitive theme that just constantly denigrates the Resurrection and the Gospel. Just one thing stood out from my research into William Miller. In his "mea culpa" cited above, he claimed that he was compelled to bring the Gospel to the world. Well what was the "Gospel" that he was talking about? It was "Get ready because Jesus is coming in October, 1844." THAT'S what he meant by the Gospel: - NOTHING about the Resurrection; - Nothing about security of Salvation; - Nothing about Jesus completing a finished work; - Nothing about the Trinity; - And nothing about the Divinity of Christ. Its just incredible, really. I've read it through three or four times, and it is just jaw-dropping how he defined the "Gospel," and what was NOT included in that definition. And Ellen refined Miller's "Resurrection Denial" and false Gospel into something even more toxic and poisonous. So the "Gospel" of William Miller was all about sowing fear and wild-eyed panic, unbiblical time-setting and a real renunciation of the Real Gospel. "Get Ready"......what does THAT mean? How does one "Get Ready" for something that was clearly completed 2,000 years ago? Obviously you can't. And if that was completed 2,000 years ago, it just does not matter whether Christ returns 2 minutes from now or 10,000 years from now. When he returns could not have any less importance if "It is Finished" really did happen once and for all, 2,000 years ago. Nothing else counts. My arm is killing me. I must stop. | ||
| Resjudicata Registered user Username: Resjudicata Post Number: 337 Registered: 4-2014 |
duplicate (Message edited by Resjudicata on October 24, 2014) | ||
| Philharris Registered user Username: Philharris Post Number: 3075 Registered: 5-2007  |
Res, Thanks for sharing. Every since you joined the forum I've been wondering about you. That is, what is driving you to say and see things in the way you do. Now, I'm beginning to understand. The Lord bless you as you grow through the leading of the Lord from where you've been into who you are now. Fearless Phil | ||
| Resjudicata Registered user Username: Resjudicata Post Number: 338 Registered: 4-2014 |
Phil, Some of it is just plain hilarious. My foot bled heavily for about five days post surgery, so bear in mind as you read the rest of the story that I was leaving a bloody footprint everywhere when the following happened...... I woke up with the excruciating pain of the titanium mesh grinding away in the hernia surgical site, which always went away when I walked around for awhile (leaving bloody footprints). I was staggering around in pitch dark, when my slick foot slid out from under me and it was just like the movies.....I landed face down on the floor, breaking the fall only with..............................................................................................................................................................you guessed it, the torn rotator cuff shoulder. So now I am in excruciating, throbbing pain in my shoulder and my hernia, writhing around on the floor getting covered in blood from the foot. The absurd insanity of the situation suddenly struck my sense of humor, and I went into one of those hysterical, uncontrollable laughing fits that left me literally gasping for air. And yet ANOTHER pain.....laughing that hard felt like a broken rib, only I could not stop laughing, laying on my back in a blood slick. Suddenly this tiny furry form leaped onto my chest and cuddled in and started purring loudly. My Cat. Named "Cat." When my wife woke up in the morning, there I was, sound asleep with our cat sound asleep contentedly on my chest, both of us striped with blood slicks. I think it is the Resurrection. What do you think? | ||
| Philharris Registered user Username: Philharris Post Number: 3076 Registered: 5-2007 |
Res, My thought? Sure hope this didn't happen on a carpet. And: What did your wife say? Or, did she think it normal to find you on the floor, covered in blood with a contented cat? I think you topped my story about gauze and my nose repair.  Fearless Phil | ||
| Resjudicata Registered user Username: Resjudicata Post Number: 339 Registered: 4-2014 |
Phil, Travertine tiles. No carpet. Those tiles are incredibly slick even when they are dry. Not only did she find me (not covered, more striped) with blood, but there were bloody footprints from one end of the house to the other. That is what freaked her out....the footprints. Only one at a time, see, not both ("A one-legged murderer, maybe?" Remember Harrison Ford in "The Fugitive?" Yeah, that is what she thought. ) | ||
| Islander Registered user Username: Islander Post Number: 53 Registered: 4-2014 |
Colleen, that was very interesting. In my opinion Jesus debunks the sda's great controversery when He said, " it is finished ". I though have alwaysneen one to take things to mean how they are said and try to not read more into it. Very intetesting discussion. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 14950 Registered: 12-2003  |
Oh, Res--my goodness! So glad your cat came and comforted you! There's nothing like the warmth of a purring cat. Yes, I believe our Lord Jesus is healing you, Res, in many ways. There's no doubt in my mind that a great many Adventists are serious trauma victims, and only the REAL gospel...the resurrected Lord Jesus...can heal those scars. And yes...Tim Martin of CFAR, who spoke at the FAF Conference last February, talked about the incredibly numerous offshoots of Millerism. There are two branches: the Sunday-worshippers and the Sabbath-worshippers. Jehovah's Witnesses are the largest group on the Sunday side, and SDAs are the largest group on the Saturday side. But without exception, the "gospel" of Millerite "churches" is the same: "Jesus is coming! Pack your bags!" The talk is extremely interesting and puts Adventism into a perspective that I'd never seen before. If you haven't seen it, here is the link to the video: Oh, Res--my goodness! So glad your cat came and comforted you! There's nothing like the warmth of a purring cat. Yes, I believe our Lord Jesus is healing you, Res, in many ways. There's not doubt in my mind that a great many Adventists are serious trauma victims, and only the REAL gospel...the resurrected Lord Jesus...can heal those scars. And yes...Tim Martin of CFAR, who spoke at the FAF Conference last February, talked about the incredibly numerous offshoots of Millerism. There are two branches: the Sunday-worshippers and the Sabbath-worshippers. Jehovah's Witnesses are the largest group on the Sunday side, and SDAs are the largest group on the Saturday side. But without exception, the "gospel" of Millerite "churches" is the same: "Jesus is coming! Pack your bags!" The talk is extremely interesting and puts Adventism into a perspective that I'd never seen before. If you haven't seen it, here is the link to the video: http://youtu.be/y3Hom7MjhfU Colleen | ||
| Resjudicata Registered user Username: Resjudicata Post Number: 341 Registered: 4-2014 |
Colleen, When you speak of the "trauma" that ex-Adventists suffer, I think you are really on to something very important. And I truly agree that nothing but the "REAL gospel" and the Resurrection can heal it. For me, this realization that something was badly amiss always..... ALWAYS profoundly struck me just as I achieved the pinnacle of one success or another. No matter what, I was struck every time with: "Is this ALL there is? Is this IT?" And I had this big gaping hole in my heart and soul that I could hear the wind whistling through. That was essentially what I suffered. No matter the success, no matter the praise and love that was showered on me, that feeling eventually came back. Now I know what it was, and have had about 8 solid months of mostly not experiencing that. The so-called "Gospel" of William Miller just doesn't cut it. It fulfills none of the deepest human needs to be in real genuine contact with their creator. "Pack your bags, Jesus is coming" does nothing but sow fear, paranoia and panic. | ||
| Capross Registered user Username: Capross Post Number: 98 Registered: 7-2012 |
Res/Colleen Being a Vietnam Vet I suffer from PTSD. Funny but the aftermath of Adventism feels similar Cap | ||
| Islander Registered user Username: Islander Post Number: 58 Registered: 4-2014 |
Capross, thank you for your service. I live in the area of the US that per capita has the highest population of Vietnam veterans. After I get my vechile fixed I want to start doing volunterring over at the Hilo vet center. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 14956 Registered: 12-2003 |
Capross, I also want to say thank you. I know a tiny bit about what the Vietnam vets suffered. My brother-in-law was a helicopter mechanic in Vietnam. He was 18 when his helicopter was shot down, and he suffered a serious back injury. But they send him back into combat. He has lived his life with intensifying and debilitating chronic pain. As we speak, he has days/weeks to live; he is dying of pancreatic cancer that developed after long-term pancreatitis. He also has lived with chronic and intensifying PTSD. Yes, the aftermath of Adventism really does have traumatic effects that linger, and it's worse for some people than for others, although all of us have it to some degree. Living in a completely skewed view of reality sets us up for trauma and PTSD. Colleen | ||
| Resjudicata Registered user Username: Resjudicata Post Number: 351 Registered: 4-2014 |
Colleen, I sure wish you would write out in more detail what you mean by the signs and symptoms of Adventist PTSD, and in particular how each of the mutant Adventist doctrines contribute to the various symptoms of PTSD. I think you are really on to something here, that I have never seen explored like I thought it should be explored. | ||
| Foofighter Registered user Username: Foofighter Post Number: 364 Registered: 7-2005 |
Yes Colleen, This would be a great topic to really flesh out, as Res said. The effects of Adventism are profound and long-lasting, especially if the healing salve of the Gospel isn't applied. | ||
| Resjudicata Registered user Username: Resjudicata Post Number: 353 Registered: 4-2014 |
Foo and Colleen, Here is the nub of the issue as far as I am concerned: In my research of the 1844 events, it is very clear that mental illness and even psychosis was rampant. Read the transcript of the Israel Daemon trial for the best evidence of this. Secondly - and I can tell there is some resistance to this particular thesis of mine - is that William Miller was NOT a good guy as we were taught in the GC. He clearly had access to, and was very familiar with the unanimous commentaries' take on Daniel 8:14, and its literal fulfillment during the reign of Antioch Epiphanes. He was a very very bad guy for not disclosing this to his followers, when he knew they were making draconian, irreversible lifestyle changes to follow his Advent message. He made a command decision to withhold this unanimous mainstream interpretation, and so his followers could not make a rational, informed decision. It was an act of deliberate deceit. Yeah, he never benefited monetarily or sexually or any of the usual inducements of a false prophet from his hair brained 1844 ideas. His inducement was power, pure and simple. And that he had virtually in unlimited doses. And this has been the history of Adventism: Calculated withholding of critical information from its membership, most spectacularly the minutes of the 1917 Bible Conference. Therefore, Adventist membership forms their world and theological views from at best partial, heavily vetted information where command decisions have been made to withhold critical information. I know of no other denomination that does this so systematically. How could this possibly NOT lead to some sort of mental illness, when your sense of reality has been heavily molded by a lifelong reception of deliberate deception and omission? | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 14962 Registered: 12-2003 |
I agree re: William Miller. He was not a good guy. He knew he was date-setting, and he knew he was interpreting Daniel in a personal and unique way. And I also agree that living in deception as if it is truth leads to mental illness. I've seen it up close and almost personal in extended family. If a person refuses to deal with the contradictions as one sees them, he spirals more and more deeply into "crazy". As someone has said, when a person breaks from sincerity, he ultimately breaks from reality Colleen | ||
| Capross Registered user Username: Capross Post Number: 103 Registered: 7-2012 |
History records that he did repent of his date setting. | ||
| Capross Registered user Username: Capross Post Number: 105 Registered: 7-2012 |
Thanks for all of your kind words about my service. My point is this. Just when I think I am over the last hurdle with PTSD something new will always pop up. It's the same thing for me being an ex adventist. I was thouroughly indoctrinated into that church. It's like an onion. When I peel back one layer there is another layer to deal with. I suspect in both cases we are never cured of the affliction. We just learn to manage it so that we can live the other portions of our lives normally. Personally I have found that my healing comes from God in both cases. He blesses me way more than I deserve and he promises to never leave me. | ||
| Resjudicata Registered user Username: Resjudicata Post Number: 358 Registered: 4-2014 |
duplicate (Message edited by Resjudicata on November 05, 2014) | ||
| Resjudicata Registered user Username: Resjudicata Post Number: 359 Registered: 4-2014 |
Capross, There is no question that Miller wrote an impressive Mea Culpa. There is also no question that he repudiated all of the "big three" Seventh Day Adventist doctrines, such as the IJ, EGW and the Sabbath. No doubt he is forgiven and learned his lesson and denounced the non-christian cults that formed in the wake of 1844. Just one observation: I just do not see any indication in his written apology where he comprehends the full enormity of the devastation that he wreaked in his follower's lives. People went insane, committed suicide, died penniless, had families and churches break up. Miller took no responsibility for most of this. Secondly, he does not mention the noxious cults like SDA, JW and WWCOG that were fermenting in the aftermath of the 1844 tragedy. Those are the fruits of his unbiblical time-setting. He needed to own the whirlwind he unleashed. He did not take full responsibility for this. Nothing but evil came out of Millerism. Yet Miller is forgiven and was saved, of that I have no doubt. Now THAT is the Real Gospel. He was not saved by what he did. He was saved by what Jesus did. |
