| Author | Message | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 15023 Registered: 12-2003  |
I've been watching former Adventists for about 15 years now. When this forum launched in 1999, the excitement at seeing people from all over the USA and Canada—and also from other countries—questioning Adventism and beginning to grasp the gospel was amazing. Some withdrew from the forum after a few weeks angry because of the things they heard about their religion here, but later, many of them came back. After time had passed and they had decided to get answers for their questions, they realized that Adventism was simply not the REAL gospel. Others came out, integrated in Christianity, and finally withdrew because they felt we took too hard a stance toward a religion that was "heterodox" but not entirely "unorthodox". Some of those came back eventually, realizing that Adventism was broken at the core—at the identity of Jesus and the Trinity, of the actual source of Adventist doctrine, etc. Others appeared to embrace the gospel with gratitude and excitement...but gradually, as time went on, they wanted something more than the revelation of the Lord Jesus in His written Word and through the Holy Spirit's teaching them through His word. They wanted healing, or subjective experiences of God speaking directly to them, or of supernatural gifting. Still others retreated into a new form of law-directed religion, adopting "covenant theology" and thus clinging to the Mosaic law as applicable in modified ways to themselves, even embracing a form of "sabbatarianism" that involves Sunday. Still others have become "post Christian". Some have gone into "full preterism" and see all of Revelation having been fulfilled in AD 70. I'd love to hear from you. Where have you landed? Are you growing in Jesus by learning to entrust your temptations and desires to Him, learning to pray always and to lean on Him, knowing He keeps His promises and thus relieving you of the indulgence of anxiety? Are you questioning evangelical Christianity? Are you disillusioned? Are you seeking a spirituality in which your own reason can validate your beliefs? My observation has suggested that a great many of us former Adventists have a really hard time allowing our minds to be submitted to Scripture. It is hard, after being taught to question and rationalize the ways we did as Adventists, to let that go and embrace God's word. It is hard to realize it is not our place to demand "answers" from God that He hasn't already shown us. So where are you? Are you attending a church? What kind? What are your biggest hurdles and concerns? I would love to discuss these things. The "formers" landscape has taken on dimensions that I did not foresee when we started this forum! Colleen | ||
| Xenonlion Registered user Username: Xenonlion Post Number: 33 Registered: 11-2014 |
I have a stronger faith in God than I used to. I trust him with my salvation rather than trying to help Him save me. Sometimes, I still have times when I'm afraid of going to hell. I understand the Bible more now. I don't have a Christian church home, yet because I'm raised in an Adventist family. It's hard to let go of fear from Adventism. Fear of hell, fear of Revelation, things like that. God gives me bravery and strength. I'm also a lot happier now. | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 10244 Registered: 3-2004  |
I love this website and although I do not write on it often, I read it every day. God took me out of the church He told me to go to into a church where I would get a better spiritual food - a Calvary Chapel in Green Valley, Henderson. I left adventism with no problem because I followed Jesus when He led me out. I had a small doubt this past summer. I went to speak to Pastor Frank about it. I told him that I was wondering if, maybe the sda church was right. He told me lots of people think that way when they leave a church like sda. Haven't thought like that since them. Right now my biggest concern is getting to know Jesus better on a daily basis and my family who still have no connection with God, like my half sister, or the family who still identify with sda, even though they do not live an sda life style. My brother, who lives with me, is a big concern. So, I have give him to God on a daily basis because I cannot change him. Thanks for asking this Colleen. Diana ps I am getting spiritually fed now and love it and my Saviour, Jesus Christ. (Message edited by Flyinglady on January 18, 2015) | ||
| Jonasaras Registered user Username: Jonasaras Post Number: 26 Registered: 9-2012 |
I attend a Foursquare church, although my congregation is more non-denominational in flavor (Christian Assembly in Eagle Rock, CA). They don't peddle much of anything other than Jesus and the Gospel and they're very serious about it both on a local level as well as internationally. We have two co-senior pastors, perhaps the only place on earth with that title, and the older of the two is the modern day Barrabas. We have recovery ministries for all manner of addictions and past abuse. We're also known internationally as a community that worships. I could gush on, but you've got the gist. As far as eschatology goes I am a partial preterist, aka a historical postmillenialist. I don't carry any Sabbatarian residue. I do carry a bit of the "clean meat" residue. I don't eat any sea food and I only eat pork on pizza (sausage a pepperoni). I recognize that I'm totally inconsistent on that point, but if that's the only crazy point that I continue with, I'm not too shabby. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 15024 Registered: 12-2003 |
So far I hear that those posting on this thread are alive in Jesus. That makes me really grateful and happy to hear. Diana...I understand having those doubts...what triggered yours? Are you able to say? Xenonlion, it is amazing and wonderful that in spite of the Adventist family and the situation that you can't escape at the moment, you are happier and know God's bravery and strength. He IS faithful! Jonasaras, enjoy that pepperoni! ;) I understand the inarticulate aversion to certain seafoods. I have a hard time with shrimp, and it's not the taste. I will eat it, but I don't go out of my way for it! Colleen | ||
| Chris Registered user Username: Chris Post Number: 1816 Registered: 7-2003  |
Hopefully, this question is in the same spirit as the one posed in this thread. I occasionally hear from former Adventists who will say some version of, "Once I realized Ellen White was a fraud, I realized that you can't trust any of that stuff including the Bible. It's all a bunch of made up stories and I've decided I'm never going to fall for that again". So my question is to anyone reading this forum that feels that way. Why do you see the veracity of Ellen White and the veracity of the Bible as being connected? What was it about discovering EGW was a fraud that made you decide the Bible must be in error as well? I ask this as a sincere question because to me it seems like a leap of logic. While the analogy isn't perfect it seems a little like saying, "Once I realized I couldn't trust the National Enquirer, I stopped reading the New York Times too". I would be interested in hearing from anyone who has landed on this position since leaving Adventism. | ||
| Mainexile Registered user Username: Mainexile Post Number: 187 Registered: 6-2008  |
Colleen, Chris...Fortunately, I did not see a hardcore connection between scripture and Ellen White. What I found was that Ellen contradicted scripture in so many ways and on the key, fundamental pillars of the SDA church, separating them was a forgone conclusion for me. To question scripture never really crossed my mind. As Xenonlion said, my faith in God and my understanding of the Gospel increased. As far as a church goes, there is one nondenominational church that my local group of Formers attend but only occasionally. What we have been doing is meeting Sunday mornings at my house and having "Church" on our own. We have Sunday School for the kids and watch Dr. Gary Inrig's incredible Bible studies (Loma Linda Word Search) pausing it to discuss things when a question or comment comes up. Then we have fellowship lunch! Very enjoyable. So much better than an organized "brick & mortar" church. | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 10245 Registered: 3-2004 |
Colleen, I am not sure what caused the doubt. I just remember thinking, MAYBE the sda church is right. I made an appointment with Pastor Frank and I have not thought that way since. I knew when I thought it that the sda church was wrong. I think our enemy put that thought there to try to discourage me. God did not let that happen, for which I am very thankful. I really love my church and am constantly amazed that God can still use this senior citizen with many years on her. Yes Jonasaras, enjoy that pepperoni. I do. I buy beans with lard in them. The other day my brother asked if he could have my last can of beans. I told him there was lard in them and he did not care. Then I remembered I had a can of lentils with no lard, so I gave that to him instead. He still eats like an sda, so I was surprised that he accepted the beans. (Message edited by Flyinglady on January 19, 2015) | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 15026 Registered: 12-2003 |
Thanks, Chris...Yes. I'm afraid I redundantly asked the same question you did with different words. I would also be interested to hear from anyone who has rejected the Bible along with EGW. Steve, I'm glad Gary's studies are "feeding" your group as well as ours  Colleen | ||
| Islander Registered user Username: Islander Post Number: 100 Registered: 4-2014 |
This is an intetesting discussion. I had a very schitzophenic religious upbringing. My parents were more likly to be identified Sabbathtarian than SDA. On Saturdays when I was a kid my family would go to the SDA for Sabbath School bevause my parents wanted me to have the socialization with other Sabbath keeping kids since I attended public school. Then soon as Sabbath school let out we'd rush across town to catch the sermon at the Church of God ( Seventh Day). We'd eat lunch and attend the Worldwide Church of God because it's service was late Saturday afternoon. That was back in the Herbert W. Armstrong days. Then on Sundays,thank you, Jesus, my parents would let me go to Sunday svhool and church with my Lutheran cousins. About once per month or so we'd attend the Brimsmeed service. I remember telling my parents when I was a kid when I grew up I wanted to go.to the church I went to with my cousins. And I do. We also frequently attended the Seventh Day Baptist church but my parents didn't much like there because they ate pork. I just liked the Lutheran so much because they were very Christ centered. Whew! | ||
| Xenonlion Registered user Username: Xenonlion Post Number: 34 Registered: 11-2014 |
I think people are more prone to giving up the Bible with Ellen White if they grew up with them side by side. Sometimes people will believe something just because Ellen White said so. She had "special insight." Really, it's amazing that God brought us out and taught us the truth about Him. Ellen White and the Bible are so intertwined within Adventism. Sometimes subtly. I believe he really did rescue us. Sometimes, I get those same doubts. "What if the SDA church was right?" It helps to remember what the Bible says in context. Many points in Adventism cannot be supported without twisting Scripture in one way or another. I trust God a lot more now and can actually rest in Him. God really answers prayer. I remember praying for more faith and patience when I was still an Adventist my freshman year. I also prayed that I can know the truth when I was first having doubts about Adventism. God has helped me so much. (Message edited by xenonlion on January 19, 2015) | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 10247 Registered: 3-2004 |
Colleen, before I took the pastor up on his challenge to read the NT with no other help, I had not read the Bible for about 25 years. I will tell you why. As an sda I started reading the OT. When I got to Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel and those books I got scared to death, almost. I figured that because sdas took the place of the CoI, that we would get the kind of punishments described in the books. I also remember reading some where in the writings of EGW that we will not be held accountable for the things we do not know. Sooo, I did not want to know what those books had to say, so I would not be held accountable for what they said. The first book I studied in the BSF was the book of Isaiah. That was about 5 years ago. I really enjoyed learning what it said and to whom....and that was to the CoI. Diana ps I had little cards with short Bible verses on them and that is what I read every day during those years. | ||
| Ric_b Registered user Username: Ric_b Post Number: 2188 Registered: 7-2004  |
I have a harder time with each passing year engaging with anything SDA, even to be "critical" of SDA teachings and writings. Not that I don't find it just as worthy of critique, but that it occupies so little of my time and attention at this point that it requires effort to get "back into that mindset" to write about SDA issues. And most of the time I would prefer not to do that. I'd prefer to focus my attention on the simple truth of the Gospel. I am routinely awed by how many different ways that simple truth shines through in in passage after passage of Scripture. I don't like the idea of being "defined" by a church denomination, because the only church membership that ever matters is belonging to the body of Christ. Nonetheless, I have no issue sharing that I am an active member of a conservative Lutheran church. I often describe my eschatology as being a "panmillenialist, that is "I've read the end of the book, God wins, it will all pan out in the end." If push comes to shove, I see the Amillenialist position as being the most scripturally coherent, followed closely by the historical pre-millenialist position. But I believe every eschatology view is highly susceptible to "seeing" the view you already have when you read a passage. This is easier to do with passages that involve prophetic images (and parables) than direct teaching passages, so the differing conclusions that well-meaning, well-studied, people of faith have reached is understandable. And this is one reason I believe that eschatology questions, while always worth studying, shouldn't be a source of division among believers. | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 15027 Registered: 12-2003 |
Interesting posts! I know what you mean, Rick, about the effort required to deal with Adventism. Thank you for writing about the Fundamental Beliefs anyway!  The gospel is amazing. It gets more and more profound the more I internalize Scripture. God's sovereignty is bigger than I ever could have imagined. I know what you mean, Diana, about being fearful of certain books. I know someone who was physically ill the first time she enrolled in a study of Daniel. She had to withdraw. She has eventually been able to do such a study, but it took time. We have fear and PTSD built into our responses to prophecy! I love how God is faithful to reveal Himself when we are willing to humble ourselves before Him and His word! | ||
| Colleentinker Registered user Username: Colleentinker Post Number: 15032 Registered: 12-2003 |
We're opening mail here, and I just read a letter that describes the journey about which Chris was asking.
The sad thing is that five years ago, when this person first requested Proclamation, they requested two copies per issue. Now this... | ||
| Capross Registered user Username: Capross Post Number: 121 Registered: 7-2012 |
I still study my scriptures. I am desiring an even closer relationship with my creator and savior. I had let go of Ellen White long before I left adventism. It was my study of the scriptures that led me out. I don't miss anything about the church other than the people I had as friends. There are several I still see socially from time to time. As far as my church affiliations I still play, sing and preach at Grace and Hope mission every Thutsday night. In many ways these people have become my family. I get a lot more love there than I ever did at any SDA church. http://www.gracehopemission.com/ I attend Friendship Community Church in Dover Pa. http://www.friendshipcommunity.org/ and play in the praise band every other Sunday. We have bible study at work and group prayer time every day. I would have to say that the Lord has provided very well for me. | ||
| Flyinglady Registered user Username: Flyinglady Post Number: 10248 Registered: 3-2004 |
Ric, I like what you said about reading the end of the book and God wins. I have said that for a long time now. I told a friend at Calvary Chapel. She liked it and now she is using it. Diana | ||
| Rocky Registered user Username: Rocky Post Number: 188 Registered: 3-2012 |
I fled adventism with the "baggage still packed" as a teenager- I figured I was lost and couldn't be saved -I fled into alcoholism for almost 10 years but continued to be drawn to Jesus and the message of the Gospel- then I prayed a sincere prayer at the beginning of my recovery over thirty years ago when I realized that my relationship to God and the questions I had about my SDA training were going to be key to staying sober- I said during a commitment prayer with my (amazingly enough by God's sovereign hand on my life a born again spirit filled sponsor) "God I am throwing it ALL out- everything I was raised by- You put back only what is of You" I have recently realized that over a period of thirty plus years He has done just that- I received a gift of discernment then that, like the GPS that continually corrects my path with the destination never in question, He has steadily drawn me out of every false programming, led me in truth and broken the "spell" or "lifted the veil" allowing me to now, finally worship Him in Spirit and in Truth - once the "Sunday" barrier, can't go back but can't go forward stalemate gave way I was led to a Gospel centered Word preaching church that describes itself as "pleromic" as it is both Evangelical and Charismatic- solid in the word and honoring of the full presense of the Holy Spirit -there are members from Lutheran, Bretheran, Episcopal, Catholic, Baptist, Pentacostal, Methodist , Jewish Christians, and of course SDA- as well as various non- denominational seekers and new believers - the pastor used to be a mega church Baptist but walked away when he realized Jesus deserved more from His church than cultural Christianity and began to pray for what that looked like- the second year I was a member we studied Revelation verse by verse and it was a joy to know the orthodox Christian encouragement and revelation of Jesus found there- it was a celebration of Jesus! I remember 4 years ago opening Revelation to find the passage that said those who keep the Sabbath would be saved only to realize it was not there, it was a left over "truth" from adventism! God continues to give me discernment as I study the Bible to know Him- he has given me those mentors that have walked steadily with him for 40 and 50 years to guide me in the application of what I am learning and to come alongside to pray for me as I sort it out- His hand has been continually on me to guide me as I submit to Him. Holy Spirit truely is my Teacher as I study Scripture. Rocky | ||
| Mjcmcook Registered user Username: Mjcmcook Post Number: 1650 Registered: 2-2011  |
Rocky~ What a beautiful and transparent testimony! I appreciate your courage to share it! The "Key" word that you used in your last sentence is "submit"~ I believe to have Victory in our lives, whether it is to alcoholism or a false religion, is to "submit"/surrender All to Him~He will Make a Way! I, too, can testify with you to this "Grace"~ The Holy Spirit is our "Teacher"~ ~mj~ | ||
| Rocky Registered user Username: Rocky Post Number: 189 Registered: 3-2012 |
Mj- My current favorite song is "The Broken Road" by Selah- He has made a way on the broken road that led me straight to Him...\o/ Rocky |
